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PNW boaters - what heating systems are recommended for Live Aboard ?-gctid677416

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    #16
    The advantage of diesel heat is that you can run it anywhere without shore power or a generator, unlike the reverse-cycle alternative. I realize that this will be a live-aboard boat, but it is nice to be able to anchor out or grab a buoy on a cold day and stay warm.
    1999 3788, Cummins 270 "Freedom"
    2013 Boston Whaler 130 SS
    Anacortes, WA

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      #17
      One disadvantage of reverse-cycle up here is we have relatively cold water. It takes a lot of pumping to extract heat from 46 degree water in January when the outside air temps are in the 40's as well. Reverse-cycle heating & cooling works best when you have bigger deltas from air to water temps.

      You really can't beat the warmth of a diesel heater up here.
      Custom CNC Design And Dash Panels

      iBoatNW

      1980 CHB Europa 42 Trawler- "Honey Badger"

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        #18
        I have gas engines in my 3870, I also heat with a Webasto hydronic heat system.
        Pat says: DO-IT-RIGHT THE FIRST TIME!

        Bayliner 3870 "ALASKA33)
        Twin 350 GM power
        Located in Seward, AK
        Retired marine surveyor

        Comment


          #19
          "Alan Teed" post=677519 wrote:
          Just my 2Cents worth. No one has yet commented on owner usage or the cost of each alternative. A Webasto Diesel heater installation will start at around $2,800 for the actual furnace plus if you need someone to install the air-ducting work and tank/filling port installation another $1k or more.. Say $3-3.5k for a "new" as opposed to replacement installation.

          By contrast electrical can be a hundred dollars. One of our Webasto diesel heaters on our 4788 went bad last winter while we were tied up in Bell harbor, Seattle for a couple of weeks. We hiked down to Target and picked up a space heater for, I think, $100 or so. It took up very little room and sat under a coffee table. It was a very adequate heat source, every bit as energetic as the Webasto.

          So if you are planning to be plugged-in when you need the heat you are almost certainly better off with electric. Of course if you want heat off the grid at anchor then you are going to have to spring for diesel heat.
          +1

          Comment


            #20
            Thanks for the link .. that is a GREAT price for that unit !! hmy:

            "mjohnson" post=677555 wrote:
            Here is a link to the gas version of the espar air heater insalls and works just like the diesel version http://www.ebay.com/itm/Espar-Airtro...-/231470274880

            Comment


              #21
              Was that a couple weeks in December or January ?? that would be great if a $100 electric unit could do the job during those weeks when cold is at its peak !!

              J.

              "iceclimber" post=678171 wrote:
              "Alan Teed" post=677519 wrote:
              Just my 2Cents worth. No one has yet commented on owner usage or the cost of each alternative. A Webasto Diesel heater installation will start at around $2,800 for the actual furnace plus if you need someone to install the air-ducting work and tank/filling port installation another $1k or more.. Say $3-3.5k for a "new" as opposed to replacement installation.

              By contrast electrical can be a hundred dollars. One of our Webasto diesel heaters on our 4788 went bad last winter while we were tied up in Bell harbor, Seattle for a couple of weeks. We hiked down to Target and picked up a space heater for, I think, $100 or so. It took up very little room and sat under a coffee table. It was a very adequate heat source, every bit as energetic as the Webasto.

              So if you are planning to be plugged-in when you need the heat you are almost certainly better off with electric. Of course if you want heat off the grid at anchor then you are going to have to spring for diesel heat.
              +1

              Comment


                #22
                It wasn't the dead of winter, March I think. The space heater I bought had a built in thermostat so it switched off when it reached the right temperature, it also had a fan, some do, some don't. The saloon interior of the 4788 is of course much larger that you have to deal with. If you go that route you can buy space heaters in different wattages.

                This should give you an idea of what wattage you need for your space. I would go be inclined to buy more wattage than this calculation produces for you since your boat will likely not be as well insulated as a typical house.:

                Watts

                A watt is a unit of power equal to one joule of energy per second.

                In terms of wattage, almost all 120-volt space heaters are rated up to 1500 watts at the maximum setting, and there is a 10/1 ratio of watts to square feet heated.

                Therefore, a 1500 watt space heater (120 volts) can heat an area of 150 square feet, and a garage heater rated at 5,000 watts should be able to comfortably heat an area over 400 square feet.


                "JLSBLINER" post=678189 wrote:
                Was that a couple weeks in December or January ?? that would be great if a $100 electric unit could do the job during those weeks when cold is at its peak !!

                J.

                "iceclimber" post=678171 wrote:
                "Alan Teed" post=677519 wrote:
                Just my 2Cents worth. No one has yet commented on owner usage or the cost of each alternative. A Webasto Diesel heater installation will start at around $2,800 for the actual furnace plus if you need someone to install the air-ducting work and tank/filling port installation another $1k or more.. Say $3-3.5k for a "new" as opposed to replacement installation.

                By contrast electrical can be a hundred dollars. One of our Webasto diesel heaters on our 4788 went bad last winter while we were tied up in Bell harbor, Seattle for a couple of weeks. We hiked down to Target and picked up a space heater for, I think, $100 or so. It took up very little room and sat under a coffee table. It was a very adequate heat source, every bit as energetic as the Webasto.

                So if you are planning to be plugged-in when you need the heat you are almost certainly better off with electric. Of course if you want heat off the grid at anchor then you are going to have to spring for diesel heat.
                +1
                Alan Teed
                MOONDANCE
                '94 4788
                Gig Harbor, WA
                Previously:
                2006 Hylas 49' blowboat
                Bayliner 2855
                1977 Cal 34' blowboat
                1981 Hunter 33' blowboat
                Experience: Sail 50 years, Motor 15 years. 2 Transats, 1 Baltimore-Virgin Islands, 6 Months cruising Caribbean, 3.5 years cruising Med.

                Comment


                  #23
                  This was my solution, good to about 40, but its on a smaller boat. They only burn 1/10th of a gallon per hour, so we get by on the small aux tank I mounted in the engine room. Ducting can be problematic, but definitely doable.

                  http://baylinerownersclub.org/index....stall-contessa

                  Comment


                    #24
                    We use the reverse cycle when on shore power (or generator if really needed) and supplement with a big buddy propane heater. I've really been impressed with an oil/electric heater to keep a room toasty in the house, I may get one for the boat.

                    Comment


                      #25
                      We have a 3055 with a Webasto hydronic diesel heating system installed by the previous owner. It has a seperate 5 gal marine tank in the engine comparment. I find it non obtrusive there and infact works great as a seat when I need to squeeze in that area. As a new boater I don't have much experience to compare systems but I can tell you it works great. Only needs a few minutes to heat the fluid and from there it's warm and toasty. Think of it the same as your car and it's heater core/fan.

                      I am going to modify it somewhat with a few valves and use it to heat the water in the hot water tank too. No electric required then when out on the hook.

                      Hope that helps some.
                      Sea Venture
                      2000 3055, 5.7/B2, 18x23" props
                      Cruising the PNW and beyond.
                      DIYC, Riverhouse Marina
                      MMSI 316029971

                      Kirk
                      Drinks well with others.

                      Comment


                        #26
                        And (when using marina electricity) would it be more economical to use reverse cycle heat versus an electric-oil space heater ?

                        i.e. I am trying to get a feel of how important it is to buy a boat with at least reverse cycle heat/AC in a live aboard situation .. maybe even that is not a huge requirement in a 37 footer ..

                        "Cruiser 35" post=677541 wrote:
                        You stated "heat for a live a board" correct? We have found it way more economical to use our reverse cycle heat than our diesel (espar) furnace. I guess it depends on your marina and electrical fee structure to some extent. Don't get me wrong we love the instant heat from our diesel furnace, but have noticed with my son living on the boat it goes through the fuel by the end of the month.

                        Comment


                          #27
                          Are the webasto/espar diesel heaters really made for the duty cycle we are talking about here ? (i.e. keeping a boat continuously warm).

                          I assume they are built to run a certain number of hours before crapping out - anybody know the life expectancy of these things ?

                          What kind of maintenance is needed to keep them running ? My furnace at home is built to perform at this level, but my electric space heater is not.

                          Comment


                            #28
                            "PugetMike" post=678502 wrote:
                            Are the webasto/espar diesel heaters really made for the duty cycle we are talking about here ? (i.e. keeping a boat continuously warm).

                            I assume they are built to run a certain number of hours before crapping out - anybody know the life expectancy of these things ?

                            What kind of maintenance is needed to keep them running ? My furnace at home is built to perform at this level, but my electric space heater is not.
                            They were originally designed in Europe for use on trucks and cars to keep them from freezing while at rest in extremely harsh and cold environments. They are extremely reliable and have the duty cycle to run continuously. But keep in mind, that most vehicles have someone driving them daily, so they are inspected or at least someone would notice if there was a problem. Boats, are often left for months at a time without anyone checking on them. I would be concerned about using these continuously unless you are a live aboard.When we go away for any period of time during the winter (days we are taking) we will only leave the electric heaters on just to ensure that the inside will not get too cold. Generally we set the thermostat at 55 degrees F.
                            Patrick and Patti
                            4588 Pilothouse 1991
                            12ft Endeavor RIB 2013
                            M/V "Paloma"
                            MMSI # 338142921

                            Comment


                              #29
                              JLSBLINER, you may want to contact Sure Marine in Seattle (http://www.suremarineservice.com/). They are experts in boat heating and may be able to provide some advice. Another thing to do is contact ITR in Richmond, BC (http://itrheat.com/). They make the Hurricane diesel heaters.
                              1999 3788, Cummins 270 "Freedom"
                              2013 Boston Whaler 130 SS
                              Anacortes, WA

                              Comment


                                #30
                                "PugetMike" post=678502 wrote:
                                Are the webasto/espar diesel heaters really made for the duty cycle we are talking about here ? (i.e. keeping a boat continuously warm).

                                I assume they are built to run a certain number of hours before crapping out - anybody know the life expectancy of these things ?.
                                As Pat said, my Espar is a bus heater (picture a commercial city bus) and they run for years. Mine is a 1987 model and is going strong 28 years later. I had to change the glow plug on mine just after I got it. I hope to get a few more years out of it, but I'll definitely be replacing it with another. You've gotta love diesel heat. It's fast and thoroughly warms the whole boat.
                                Custom CNC Design And Dash Panels

                                iBoatNW

                                1980 CHB Europa 42 Trawler- "Honey Badger"

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