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    #16
    Originally posted by Douggy View Post

    Matt, you live in a very sheltered political bubble if you think "globalist" is just a right wing buzzword.

    George Bush and Obama's view on being a world leader was toppling foreign governments and killing thousands of their innocent citizens just to install a globalist puppet government. Do you deny this happened in several countries like Iraq, Egypt, Libya, Ukraine and several others .. ?
    No Douggy, I live in Chicago, one of the most plugged-in places in the WORLD to live. I also have a focus of international business in my career, meaning I travel to other countries and get their take on things.

    If it was up to me, we would have never gone into Iraq knowing what we know now, but the past is the past, isn't it?
    Matt Train
    BOC Site Team
    Chicagoland, IL

    Comment


      #17
      Originally posted by Download_Complete View Post

      No Douggy, I live in Chicago, one of the most plugged-in places in the WORLD to live. I also have a focus of international business in my career, meaning I travel to other countries and get their take on things.

      If it was up to me, we would have never gone into Iraq knowing what we know now, but the past is the past, isn't it?
      The past is the past but intelligent people learn from the past so they don't repeat the same mistakes as in the past.

      So did we learn anything from invading a country with no justification and killing tens of thousands of innocent people including women and children?

      What about Obama's unjustified wars Matt where Obama ordered our military and contractors to destroy nations that resulted in the murders of innocent people including women and children? What is your view on Obama's military action in Libya, Egypt, Syria, Ukraine ... and the many other nations we were responsible for the destruction and massive murders in the name of ???? what was the justification???

      I want the people responsible for these unjustified wars and murders to be tried on war crimes ... which includes Obama and Bush.
      2003 Bayliner 245
      2007 Sedona F21

      Comment


        #18
        Originally posted by Douggy View Post

        The past is the past but intelligent people learn from the past so they don't repeat the same mistakes as in the past.

        So did we learn anything from invading a country with no justification and killing tens of thousands of innocent people including women and children?

        What about Obama's unjustified wars Matt where Obama ordered our military and contractors to destroy nations that resulted in the murders of innocent people including women and children? What is your view on Obama's military action in Libya, Egypt, Syria, Ukraine ... and the many other nations we were responsible for the destruction and massive murders in the name of ???? what was the justification???

        I want the people responsible for these unjustified wars and murders to be tried on war crimes ... which includes Obama and Bush.
        AS far as I am concerned, this mass-blame of Obama by the right needs to stop. We have a complete asshole in the office now. When are you going to be held accountable for putting him there? Because it's coming Douggy. One of these days when we look back on the damage Donald Trump has caused this country, I am going to point to people like you, with these posts, and I am going to ask you why you were such a cheerleader.
        Matt Train
        BOC Site Team
        Chicagoland, IL

        Comment


          #19
          Originally posted by Download_Complete View Post

          I 100% agree with you. In the context YOU have framed Nationalism as, I have absolutely no issues with it.

          That is not what is being reflected in current leadership. I give you Charlottesville as Exhibit A, and a shining example of why I personally abhor Nationalism. Exhibit B is how we treated our allies at the G7 summit. I have more.
          I do not condone Charlottsville. A strong “this is not acceptable” would have been the correct approach. Charlottsville was not nationalisim, it was racisim pure and simple. The president did not do anything racist in charlottsville. His failure there is in what he did not do. He did not come out with a strong stance. He failed in that case. I will tactfully remind you that I have mentioned our past presidents failures in the exact same area, just opposite sides of the issue. When black protesters were assaulting innocent white people, and destroying property in our cities, president Obama spoke to the nation, and he did not condem those actions. He as well failed in his duty, similar to President Trumps failure.

          As far as G7, the presidents actions are not racisim, in any way shape or form. The other G7 countries are allies in war time, but the rest of the time they are trading partners. In that situation our presidents duty is to represent the best interests of the American workers, which is exactly what he is trying to do.

          KEVIN SANDERS
          4788 LISAS WAY
          SEWARD, ALASKA

          Comment


            #20
            Originally posted by Download_Complete View Post

            AS far as I am concerned, this mass-blame of Obama by the right needs to stop. We have a complete asshole in the office now. When are you going to be held accountable for putting him there? Because it's coming Douggy. One of these days when we look back on the damage Donald Trump has caused this country, I am going to point to people like you, with these posts, and I am going to ask you why you were such a cheerleader.
            LOL how do we get from Iraq to "obama's unjustified wars" ?

            White people always tout how we are "not racist" and I'm going to disagree. There is deep seated racism in this country and the President is openly racist. The right, generally speaking is the party of white and racism.

            Comment


              #21
              Originally posted by iceclimber View Post
              White people always tout how we are "not racist" and I'm going to disagree. There is deep seated racism in this country and the President is openly racist. The right, generally speaking is the party of white and racism.
              I'm not racist, I even have a black friend!
              Rafael Figueira
              1998 Bayliner Capri 1800 LS

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              • donyt
                donyt commented
                Editing a comment
                LOL

              #22
              Originally posted by rafaelfigueira View Post

              I'm not racist, I even have a black friend!
              Trump said in an interview, "“I am the least racist person you have ever interviewed, that I can tell you.” So, everyone else is more racist than him. Case closed.
              1995 Bayliner 2452 Mercruiser 5.7L Alpha 1 Gen 2

              Comment


                #23
                Originally posted by Fishtank View Post

                Trump said in an interview, "“I am the least racist person you have ever interviewed, that I can tell you.” So, everyone else is more racist than him. Case closed.
                Yeah then a neo nazi murdered someone with a car and Trump said, hey there are issues on both sides. Like on one side a person is dead and the nazi ....well is a nazi.

                Comment


                  #24
                  Originally posted by ksanders View Post

                  I do not condone Charlottsville. A strong “this is not acceptable” would have been the correct approach. Charlottsville was not nationalisim, it was racisim pure and simple. The president did not do anything racist in charlottsville. His failure there is in what he did not do. He did not come out with a strong stance. He failed in that case. I will tactfully remind you that I have mentioned our past presidents failures in the exact same area, just opposite sides of the issue. When black protesters were assaulting innocent white people, and destroying property in our cities, president Obama spoke to the nation, and he did not condem those actions. He as well failed in his duty, similar to President Trumps failure.
                  I tend to view this as a slippery slope, because blacks are under-represented and Obama, being black and from the south side of Chicago, has a much different view of the world than you or I do. And I will tactfully remind you that we have had these discussions as well.

                  I categorically denounce black/white protests and assault/destruction. Period. But within those protests are a nugget of racism and civil rights that is well worth discussion.

                  Quite frankly, however, I view the failure to denounce white nationalism and neo Nazis as the FAR more egregious offense.

                  As far as G7, the presidents actions are not racisim, in any way shape or form. The other G7 countries are allies in war time, but the rest of the time they are trading partners. In that situation our presidents duty is to represent the best interests of the American workers, which is exactly what he is trying to do.
                  I disagree because to use a metaphor, this point of view fails to see the forest for the trees. THese will impact trade, and there will be significant NEGATIVE repercussions as well. It will also damage diplomatic relationships (and it already has). We haven't discussed this and I feel your failure to see this is a logic fail on your part.

                  I get that trade is a big concern for Trump supporters, but I do not trust Trump and his supporters to represent the issue correctly, and as a result I feel relationships and industries are being damaged needlessly. And I won't forgive that.

                  I can sum up my thoughts on trade like this:

                  1. What is the ACTUAL numbers?
                  2. Are those numbers a problem, and how do those fit into the greater market context?

                  I do not believe the industries Trump is trying to "save" are worth saving, for the same reason I don't believe horses are as important to transportation as they used to be. I am much more interested in where our markets are GOING to, and enabling the people who have been left behind (those who give a damn and want to make the shift) to transition to these new industries.

                  And Kevin, I got to tell you, I don't have a lot of sympathy for people who cannot see the fact that our economy and industries are changing.
                  Matt Train
                  BOC Site Team
                  Chicagoland, IL

                  Comment


                    #25
                    Originally posted by Download_Complete View Post

                    I tend to view this as a slippery slope, because blacks are under-represented and Obama, being black and from the south side of Chicago, has a much different view of the world than you or I do. And I will tactfully remind you that we have had these discussions as well.

                    I categorically denounce black/white protests and assault/destruction. Period. But within those protests are a nugget of racism and civil rights that is well worth discussion.

                    Quite frankly, however, I view the failure to denounce white nationalism and neo Nazis as the FAR more egregious offense.



                    I disagree because to use a metaphor, this point of view fails to see the forest for the trees. THese will impact trade, and there will be significant NEGATIVE repercussions as well. It will also damage diplomatic relationships (and it already has). We haven't discussed this and I feel your failure to see this is a logic fail on your part.

                    I get that trade is a big concern for Trump supporters, but I do not trust Trump and his supporters to represent the issue correctly, and as a result I feel relationships and industries are being damaged needlessly. And I won't forgive that.

                    I can sum up my thoughts on trade like this:

                    1. What is the ACTUAL numbers?
                    2. Are those numbers a problem, and how do those fit into the greater market context?

                    I do not believe the industries Trump is trying to "save" are worth saving, for the same reason I don't believe horses are as important to transportation as they used to be. I am much more interested in where our markets are GOING to, and enabling the people who have been left behind (those who give a damn and want to make the shift) to transition to these new industries.

                    And Kevin, I got to tell you, I don't have a lot of sympathy for people who cannot see the fact that our economy and industries are changing.
                    I know our industries are changing, but in many ways they are changing due to trade policies that are promoting that change. We still need “stuff” and we can and should make that “stuff” right here in America. There is nothing wrong with making things here. Things made in America are made in as enviromently friendly way possible, by workers that have safety measures in place, and that do not live in conditions that our convicted criminals are not allowed to live in.

                    But... back to trumps dealing with the G7 leaders being racist... How is promoting American workers Racist again? I’m trying to figure that
                    out. You were not talking about the economic or diplomatic consequenses of Trumps G7 actions. You called them racist. If you want to talk about the economic and diplomatic aspects, then we need to get the racism issue off of the table.

                    KEVIN SANDERS
                    4788 LISAS WAY
                    SEWARD, ALASKA

                    Comment


                      #26
                      Originally posted by ksanders View Post

                      I know our industries are changing, but in many ways they are changing due to trade policies that are promoting that change. We still need “stuff” and we can and should make that “stuff” right here in America. There is nothing wrong with making things here. Things made in America are made in as enviromently friendly way possible, by workers that have safety measures in place, and that do not live in conditions that our convicted criminals are not allowed to live in.
                      That's called business realities.

                      We also aren't taking into account geography and your biases/beliefs that comes from where you live. Not to needle you too hard here, but I do see your opinions being formed as a result of your geographic location. You are in Alaska, largely a rural place. I live in a metropolitan area and work "in the rat race" so to speak. You would not see the realities I see simply because you never would based on your location. Flip it around: I am willing to place a relatively good wager on the fact that I will never be asked to stand up Marketing Technology anywhere around Prince William Sound. We quite literally live in two separate worlds. The problem comes in where conservatives by and large are rural and blue collar. They have beliefs that do not agree with mine, and my beliefs tend to be based on reality and fact. I neither understand nor comprehend the current trade "fight" Trump is trying to wage. I also don't understand the racial issues Trump is raising.

                      But... back to trumps dealing with the G7 leaders being racist... How is promoting American workers Racist again? I’m trying to figure that
                      out. You were not talking about the economic or diplomatic consequenses of Trumps G7 actions. You called them racist. If you want to talk about the economic and diplomatic aspects, then we need to get the racism issue off of the table.
                      Whoa whoa whoa - I never equated the G7 summit to racism. Let's clear that up right now please. If you took it that way, then let's get clarity NOW. I never said nor intended to say the G7 was racism. What the G7 was was protectionism, and damaging our diplomatic relations. THat will put US at risk, guaranteed.
                      Matt Train
                      BOC Site Team
                      Chicagoland, IL

                      Comment


                        #27
                        Originally posted by Download_Complete View Post

                        AS far as I am concerned, this mass-blame of Obama by the right needs to stop. We have a complete asshole in the office now. When are you going to be held accountable for putting him there? Because it's coming Douggy. One of these days when we look back on the damage Donald Trump has caused this country, I am going to point to people like you, with these posts, and I am going to ask you why you were such a cheerleader.
                        Obama gets blamed for the unjustified wars because Obama was the President and Commander-in-Chief who is responsible for ordering the military actions I mentioned.
                        2003 Bayliner 245
                        2007 Sedona F21

                        Comment


                          #28
                          Originally posted by Download_Complete View Post

                          That's called business realities.

                          We also aren't taking into account geography and your biases/beliefs that comes from where you live. Not to needle you too hard here, but I do see your opinions being formed as a result of your geographic location. You are in Alaska, largely a rural place. I live in a metropolitan area and work "in the rat race" so to speak. You would not see the realities I see simply because you never would based on your location. Flip it around: I am willing to place a relatively good wager on the fact that I will never be asked to stand up Marketing Technology anywhere around Prince William Sound. We quite literally live in two separate worlds. The problem comes in where conservatives by and large are rural and blue collar. They have beliefs that do not agree with mine, and my beliefs tend to be based on reality and fact. I neither understand nor comprehend the current trade "fight" Trump is trying to wage. I also don't understand the racial issues Trump is raising.



                          Whoa whoa whoa - I never equated the G7 summit to racism. Let's clear that up right now please. If you took it that way, then let's get clarity NOW. I never said nor intended to say the G7 was racism. What the G7 was was protectionism, and damaging our diplomatic relations. THat will put US at risk, guaranteed.
                          Matt

                          Thanks for correcting my misunderstanding regarding G7.

                          Yes we see things based on the world we live in. That is why this is such a great country.

                          Btw, BOTH of our belief’s are based on reality and fact as we see it. Your reality is not any more accurate than mine, it is just more accurate to you and others in your situation. Conversely my reality is not any more accurate than yours.

                          KEVIN SANDERS
                          4788 LISAS WAY
                          SEWARD, ALASKA

                          Comment


                            #29
                            Originally posted by ksanders View Post

                            Matt

                            Thanks for correcting my misunderstanding regarding G7.

                            Yes we see things based on the world we live in. That is why this is such a great country.

                            Btw, BOTH of our belief’s are based on reality and fact as we see it. Your reality is not any more accurate than mine, it is just more accurate to you and others in your situation. Conversely my reality is not any more accurate than yours.
                            But the President of our country has a responsibility to characterize, assess, and drive according to what's best for the country. And while you may disagree with me here, I feel harming our existing diplomatic alliances is not in the best interests of our country.

                            As for racism, I believe actions speak louder than words, and Trump is racist.
                            Matt Train
                            BOC Site Team
                            Chicagoland, IL

                            Comment


                              #30
                              Originally posted by ksanders View Post
                              we can and should make that “stuff” right here in America.
                              Why?

                              This has happened before in many other places: as a country gets richer, its economy evolves into capital-intensive activities. It's called "capital deepening", and has its roots on the concept of comparative advantage from all the way back in the 1800s. Just like it's a waste of your time to make your own wooden spoons, it's also wasteful for a rich country to manufacture cheap goods. It makes no sense to artificially keep an economy in labor-intensive activities just for the sake of it. That's why we dont make t-shirts and plastic dolls anymore, but tractors and airplanes instead (much like other rich countries like Japan and Germany). America still makes a ton of stuff, just not the cheap consumer goods kind of stuff.
                              Rafael Figueira
                              1998 Bayliner Capri 1800 LS

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