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    #16
    Originally posted by Fishtank View Post

    Wait, what!? This makes no sense whatsoever. It's easy just to say Trump is a democrat but it's clearly not true in any stretch of the imagination. Let's break this down:

    Taxes:
    Republicans believe in lower taxes, especially lower taxes for the rich and businesses because they think this will trickle down to create a stronger economy. Democrats believe that the burden of taxation should be shouldered by the corporate and 1% to improve the collective quality of life. For taxes, Trump is a REPUBLICAN.

    Gun Laws:
    Republicans opposed gun control laws. Democrats favor gun control laws but believe in protecting the 2nd Amendment. Trump vowed to undo any actions by President Barack Obama on gun control. For Gun Laws, Trump is a REPUBLICAN.

    Abortion:
    Republicans believe government should restrict abortion. Democrats believe in a woman's right to choose. Trump supports abortion restrictions (e.g., support of 20 Week Abortion Ban, etc.). For Abortion, Trump is a REPUBLICAN.

    Same-sex marriage:
    Republicans believe marriage should be restricted to between a man and a woman. Democrats oppose same sex discrimination at the Federal level. Trump flip-flops on his position so we'll see what happens.

    Limits of government:
    Republicans believe in smaller government/less government interference on business, healthcare, etc. Democrats believe in government's strong role in helping and supporting Americans. Trump's policies reflect his desire for smaller government and regulations. For Limits of government, Trump is a REPUBLICAN.

    Immigration:
    Republicans believe in strong border controls rigid immigration policies. Democrats favor open immigration with sufficient controls as necessary. For immigration, Trump is a REPUBLICAN.

    Health Care:
    Republicans believe in private healthcare and less government regulation. Democrats believe in public universal healthcare. Trump fought hard to repeal and replace universal healthcare, so this Trump is a REPUBLICAN.
    At least you know why you lost.


    Mocoondo
    2002 Bayliner 195 Capri
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      #17
      Originally posted by Mocoondo View Post

      At least you know why you lost.

      Getting back to your point, why do you think Trump is a democrat?
      1995 Bayliner 2452 Mercruiser 5.7L Alpha 1 Gen 2

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        #18
        Originally posted by Fishtank View Post

        Getting back to your point, why do you think Trump is a democrat?
        He's been a democrat his entire life...everybody knows that. His views are the new face of policy in the United States. America First. People First. You will either have to get on board or be left behind. You cannot deny for a second that many of his policies and his views have crossed party lines. The only difference is the republicans got smart earlier on than the dems. They were vehemently opposed to him and then they suddenly realized that they either get behind him or be left in the dust, so they did...The dems are in big trouble if they keep digging their heels in. I can't stress this enough...the optics are horrible and it is really turning a lot of people off.

        One day, you will have to stop clutching your pearls and realize that the face of politics and this whole left vs right thing is gone. It's done. It's a new world order and one of populism. Power being restored to the people, where it belongs.
        Mocoondo
        2002 Bayliner 195 Capri
        Mercruiser 5.0L V8 / Alpha I Gen II
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          #19
          Originally posted by Mocoondo View Post

          He's been a democrat his entire life...everybody knows that. His views are the new face of policy in the United States. America First. People First. You will either have to get on board or be left behind. You cannot deny for a second that many of his policies and his views have crossed party lines. The only difference is the republicans got smart earlier on than the dems. They were vehemently opposed to him and then they suddenly realized that they either get behind him or be left in the dust, so they did...The dems are in big trouble if they keep digging their heels in. I can't stress this enough...the optics are horrible and it is really turning a lot of people off.

          One day, you will have to stop clutching your pearls and realize that the face of politics and this whole left vs right thing is gone. It's done. It's a new world order and one of populism. Power being restored to the people, where it belongs.
          But how does everyone know that Trump is a democrat and has been one his entire life? His positions and policies mirror those of republicans... I gave concrete examples above. He simply is not a democrat. As for populism being our future, Trump's failure will bring to light the dangers of his extremism and isolationism. Greece's move to populism is a good lesson in how detrimental it can be.
          1995 Bayliner 2452 Mercruiser 5.7L Alpha 1 Gen 2

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            #20
            Originally posted by Fishtank View Post

            But how does everyone know that Trump is a democrat...........
            Come on. Now you're just playing games.

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            Mocoondo
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              #21
              Originally posted by Mocoondo View Post

              Come on. Now you're just playing games.

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              And 17 years later he's a populist and a republican. What's your point?
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                #22
                Originally posted by Fishtank View Post

                And 17 years later he's a populist and a republican. What's your point?
                Have a look at his campaign donations. That is all public record. More money went to democrat candidates versus republicans until he began preparing for his run for office.

                You are going to find as time goes on that more and more democrats are going to align their ideals with his. Mark my words.
                Mocoondo
                2002 Bayliner 195 Capri
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                MMSI: 338091755

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                  #23
                  The thing is, Trump's actions and policies are clearly not liberal - they are conservative. If anything, to me that means he is not a democrat. He's flip flopped over the years from dem to independent to republican, and finally landed on republican because the GOP had an extremely weak bunch of candidates going into the last election. Trump is ego driven and simply wanted the power and prestige of being president. So, he pretended to be republican. What is he really? I have no idea and I don't care. Trump is smart, and so is Hillary and Obama.... I don't think either of us would deny that. The problem is that he's a pathological liar and an egomaniac, so the bandwidth of his intellect is consumed by feeding his ego. He excels at marketing himself, especially via deception. This leaves the extremely complicated and delicate work of governing into chaos.
                  1995 Bayliner 2452 Mercruiser 5.7L Alpha 1 Gen 2

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                    #24
                    Excuse my ignorance. Can someone explain to me why, in the USA, one must be attached to a political party to be able to vote?
                    We, in Canada, are only required to be a Canadian. Your affiliation or party support is your own business and not the government’s. It’s as private as who you voted for. Unless, of course, you are running for election.
                    Parry Sound, Ontario Canada
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                      #25
                      Originally posted by oakplank View Post
                      Excuse my ignorance. Can someone explain to me why, in the USA, one must be attached to a political party to be able to vote?
                      We, in Canada, are only required to be a Canadian. Your affiliation or party support is your own business and not the government’s. It’s as private as who you voted for. Unless, of course, you are running for election.
                      You don't have to attach/affiliate to a political party to vote.
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                        #26
                        Originally posted by Fishtank View Post

                        For one simple reason, Ivanka would be a non-starter for a run as a democrat... that is, the environment. She would have to turn her back on virtually everything Trump has (and will) said and done with regard to the environment (environmental protection/EPA, climate change, trusting science again). Neither democrats nor millennials would put another Trump in office for this reason alone.

                        As far as Trump dominating Hillary every step of the way, this is simply not true. As much as you believe the country despised her, she still dominated Trump in the popular vote by over 2 million. Imagine if we (the dems) had put up a candidate with less baggage, more charisma, but the same platform.
                        WHAT platform? (crickets) she had no damn platform, that's why the hell she lost! People were sick of the lack of leadership from Obama and she offered NOTHING, and added to NOTHING...Clinton's ethical baggage. She wound up with less than nothing in terms of appeal. If Trump did not have his difficulty in appropriate communication, but talked rationally about the same things he wanted to do, the election would not have even been CLOSE.
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                          #27
                          Originally posted by Mocoondo View Post
                          Except that isn't how our system works. You cannot say that she dominated him in a way that is irrelevant to how our electoral system operates because that just doesn't matter. Trump campaigned for electoral votes which demonstrated leadership and brilliance and he collected way more than what was needed. That is where the rubber hits the road. Individual votes mean nothing. I voted for Trump but my states electoral votes went to Hillary. So be it.
                          The definition of a democracy is a form of government in which the people rule, either directly or through elected representatives.

                          At its root, populism is a belief in the power of regular people, and in their right to have control over their government rather than a small group of political insiders or a wealthy elite. The word populism comes from the Latin word for "people,"

                          Given the definitions above that are often used in the last election, and the undisputed fact that more than 2 million people voted for someone other than Trump how can "individual votes mean nothing" and Trumps movement still be a populist movement or the electoral vote be true democracy at work ? Are both not opposed to each other ? What about majority rule ?

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                            #28
                            Originally posted by Fishtank View Post

                            You don't have to attach/affiliate to a political party to vote.
                            Right, I have never registered with either party. That is only a requirement if you want to vote in primaries.
                            88 Four Winns 200 Horizon 4.3 OMC
                            98 Jeep Grand Cherokee 4.0/Selectrac
                            07 Jeep Grand Cherokee 5.7 Hemi/Quadradrive II

                            Long Island Sound Region

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                              #29
                              Originally posted by 88fourwinns View Post

                              WHAT platform? (crickets) she had no damn platform, that's why the hell she lost! People were sick of the lack of leadership from Obama and she offered NOTHING, and added to NOTHING...Clinton's ethical baggage. She wound up with less than nothing in terms of appeal. If Trump did not have his difficulty in appropriate communication, but talked rationally about the same things he wanted to do, the election would not have even been CLOSE.
                              Again I keep seeing People used in these types of debates. The fact remains that more People actually agreed with her vs disagreed with her. From an electoral college vote yes more disagreed than agreed. So we really should be saying "The Electoral College was sick of the lack of leadership......" not the People

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                                #30
                                Originally posted by oakplank View Post
                                Excuse my ignorance. Can someone explain to me why, in the USA, one must be attached to a political party to be able to vote?
                                We, in Canada, are only required to be a Canadian. Your affiliation or party support is your own business and not the government’s. It’s as private as who you voted for. Unless, of course, you are running for election.
                                It is less about party affiliation as it is about winning an election. In this country, if you want to win, you have to run under one of the two main party tickets. I support MANY Libertarian candidates who really SHOULD be in office representing us, but if they are not on a rep or dem ticket, they don't have a chance. Not saying it is right because it isn't, but that's how the game works.

                                It's all about knowing how to play the game and win at it. Trump is a genius. He is a democrat but there was no way he could have run on a dem ticket and beat out the establishment, so he played another hand and it worked. Can't fault him for that.

                                Mocoondo
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