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FISA MEMO RELEASED

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    #31
    The sad thing here is now who do we trust?
    Mocoondo
    2002 Bayliner 195 Capri
    Mercruiser 5.0L V8 / Alpha I Gen II
    MMSI: 338091755

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    • Rick_Kenyon
      Rick_Kenyon commented
      Editing a comment
      Don’t know? Sad indeed. To me, this shakes the foundation of the constitutional republic. Not shure where we go from here, or how.

    #32


    You trust the FBI and the Justice Department, it's called checks and balances.

    James Comey,FBI Director with spotless record, Republican fired by Trump because he would not cowtow to Trump.
    Rod Rosenstein, Republican, nominated by George Bush, Nominated by Trump. The man that nominated Richard Mueller who is a Republican, former director of the FBI nominated by George Bush, also a highly decorated Vietnam war vet now Independent council investigating Trump. Flawless record.

    Devon Nunes, author of the "memo" which has all the gravity of a facebook post.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Devin_Nunes

    What the fuc* is wrong with you people ? IT IS A MEMO ! It means nothing.

    Comment


      #33
      Originally posted by iceclimber View Post

      You trust the FBI and the Justice Department, it's called checks and balances.

      What the fuc* is wrong with you people ?
      YOU trust the fbi and doj....I no longer trust them....

      What the fuc* is wrong with YOU ?

      1997 Bayliner Trophy 2352
      5.7 Mercruiser/Alpha I Gen II /Full Closed Cooling
      San Diego, CA

      HookEmDanO out ......

      the more liberal people I meet the more I love my dogs !

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        #34
        Originally posted by Mocoondo View Post
        The sad thing here is now who do we trust?
        There is a way to screen out untrustworthy bad actors in government. Make it mandatory for all persons who hold a security clearance to go through a rigorous security background check and polygraph. Actually, it is required for the majority of people (government and non-government) to go through a rigorous security background check, initially and the repeated periodically, and it may include a polygraph depending on the security level. I had to do this for most of my adult life starting when I was in the military and continued through my career working for a government contractor. It's not fun and a big pain in the a$$ but given the true purpose and what it protects it is truly required imo.

        It seems the government is strict on security background check compliance for non-government persons but no so much for certain government employees.

        This would at least be a good first step. We need to weed out bad actors who hold security clearances.
        2003 Bayliner 245
        2007 Sedona F21

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          #35
          Interesting article today ...

          WATERGATE X1000: What The MSM Is Hoping YOU Ignore About FISA MEMO Is More Than Dangerous, It’s TERRIFYING

          The now-infamous memo was FINALLY released today! What we all have been too patiently waiting for. With the release of the memo, we finally have proof that, without a shadow of a doubt, the Clinton machine, powered by the Obama Administration, using the DNC as its main appendage, funded the creation of a false dossier, that they simultaneously leaked to the press and sold to the FBI, and then pressured top government employees to turn that into a FISA warrant, and more broadly into what the MSM refers to as the “Russia Investigation”. Do you remember following each step of the way? When the MSM was telling you that the Clinton investigation would be dismissed, that “Trump/Russia collusion” was what you *really needed to be worried about*? Well – again – with the release of this memo, it proves that the entire narrative was PAID FOR BY THE DNC, OKAYED BY OBAMA, and then FUNNELED TO THE LEFT-CONTROLLED MAINSTREAM MEDIA.

          This is blatant and rampant government corruption and it all points to the Left, it spells out to the American public what many in right-leaning media have been saying for two years now. It is a MAJOR victory, but it’s bittersweet. While many of us in the media, who have read and interacted with these people on a day-to-day basis, knew the elaborate scheme and continued to write about it – seeing the FBI, itself, fully aware of the criminality and attempt to dismiss it alongside leading Democrats and media figures in the past 24-hours, causes immense alarm. Have top branches of our government — that are supposedly nonpartisan, that have access to the information of every US citizen — under 8-years of Obama, truly become this corrupt?

          Hillary Clinton, her campaign, and the DNC manufactured a completely false dossier, which led to the United States government, under the Obama administration, spying on Trump staffers. The DNC paid for the Steele dossier and then used their Obama administration contacts to say that it’s grounds for an investigation. Because the document was unsubstantiated and they needed a second source to justify spying on American citizens, so what did they do? The same people behind the dossier “leaked” the inaccurate and unsubstantiated information to Yahoo! News, which ultimately to lead to the FISA warrant… Which then led to the MSM as a whole reporting on the investigation as valid, all to thwart the presidential campaign of Donald J. Trump. See how that worked? But the scheme didn’t end there…

          The information from the ongoing investigation – that was started from these false espionage “reports” – was THEN illegally (again) leaked to the press in an attempt to steer public opinion toward the impeachment of now elected President Trump. This is supposed to be OUR government, working for all Americans, and we have just seen plain as day that for years it was working purely as an arm of the DNC.

          In hindsight, it’s obvious – as if it wasn’t already – that president Trump was targeted during the election. They were seriously worried and so they took measures to ease their minds. The MSM kept saying that the Right was whining about the surveillance, about the collusion, it was obvious . . . And then the Russia narrative exploded onto the scene and suddenly the entire discussion had been flipped.

          The memo is exactly what all of the voices on the Right were shouting about and reporting on for a year. We were called “conspiracy theorists” and were labeled tinfoil hat-wearing fools by the mainstream media – and yet we were right.

          What the memo did, and what the fallout will expand upon, is expose the FBI, DNC, DOJ, and the MSM for the deceptive, manipulative forces that they are. The mainstream media colluded with the DNC who were colluding with the FBI and CLINTON is at the center of it all.

          These supposedly neutral government agencies acted and functioned as wings and branches of the DNC under the Obama administration and now they’re a deeply entrenched machine that’s proved difficult to break up. Heads need to role and a restructuring of all these departments needs to be seen if any restoration of trust in our government is to happen.

          The MSM, in the aftermath of the memo’s release, complained that it was all a “coordinated distraction” from the “Russia Investigation”. The memo revealed the truth and it has placed the “Russia Investigation” in sunlight – it’s a scam and always was. Everyone who covered this up should be horrified and I’m quite sure they are. Heads undoubtedly will roll.

          What president Obama established is a precedent of abuse that can lead to tyranny. Had Hillary Clinton been elected and then another Democrat after her, the cycle would be complete and the Democrats would have secured a tyrannical, monopolistic control over the nation. This would happen if a conservative wanted to consolidate the power of the government agencies for their own benefit. Our intelligence agencies are being weaponized by the people at the highest rungs of our government.

          A note to MSM Liberals: Imagine that after Donald Trump’s 8 years and your influence in our government fades, a Big Brother Neo-Con like Romney is elected. Romney decides to not only allow the surveillance of your preferred political candidates and their staff, but he allows the surveillance of YOU, as originally normalized and established by Obama. Would you feel safe? By failing to report on this accurately, is this the precedent you want to set?
          2003 Bayliner 245
          2007 Sedona F21

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            #36
            This is really much simpler than being portrayed and have a few points to share.

            1. Law Enforcement is not obliged to provide ALL information known to obtain a warrant. What is to be provided is sufficient informotion needed to establish the probable cause level of proof needed to obtain the warrant.

            2. The info provided must establish probable cause and additional non included info can't be used to bolster the warrant. In short, the proof must stand within the "4 corners of the document".

            3. Law Enforcement MUST provide any exculpatiry information and assert the info is truthful and reliable. THIS IS WHERE THIS TRAIN LEFT THE RAILS.

            For a law enforcement officer to present info that was known or should have been known to be tainted or false is shocking. In this case the allegation is the info was provided by paid source who was paid to provide discrediting info. This doesn't in itself mean the info was a lie, but damn sure means the info must be independently verified to be accurate. Seems that didn't occur or couldn't occur, so they went with the tainted fruit.

            Failing to provide the exculpatory info to the judge and presenting info as factsoon they knew to be truthful and accurate is HORRIBLE if they didn't verify the info....time will tell if this is what happened. To me the MEMO is disturbing, but it's only a memo about what they've read and interpreted.

            The source of the memo also has an agenda and needs to be kept in perspective though. What this tells me is there does need to be a totally independent investigation into this situation....and not a biased congressional investigation. What's so disturbing about the allegations is WHO can conduct this investigation? DOJ, FBI, Congressional Committee......NOT!

            In short, the Executive and Legislative branches have too much skin in the game....that leaves the Judicial Branch, but this is outside their scope.

            if true, those fed officers who presented info to judge are done in law enforcement. They are required to provide their involvement in this with any case they are involved in or have been involved in....

            Sorry for the ramble, but truth and integrity of law enforcement officer is their livelihood....violate it in one case and DONE. I haven't seen proof this is the case, but the allegations are there. I will say if I were them, I would be screaming for a full investigation and be sitting on courthouse steps to show the judge who signed the warrant.....for them to hide or dismiss need for investigation would be very very concerning.
            Current: 2008 H210SS Four Winns
            Prior: 1997 2050SS Bayliner

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              #37
              Intentionally withholding information pertinent to an issuance of a warrant IS a crime. IF that is proved... someone needs to go to jail.

              The faith in, and integrity of our system is at stake.
              Custom CNC Design And Dash Panels

              iBoatNW

              1980 CHB Europa 42 Trawler- "Honey Badger"

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                #38
                When a judge issues a search warrant as indicated above he can only rely on the information contained in the warrant.
                When a judge evaluates information from non law enforcement parties (informants), he has to evaluate that warrant based on two critical components, Knowledge and Veracity.

                Knowledge is a positive affirmation of direct knowledge
                example: I saw Joe bagging meth in his living room.

                Veracity is a measure of how likely the knowledge is to be true.
                example: I am a fedex delivery driver and when I walked up to the door I could see some guy bagging what appears to be meth or coke (very belivable)
                Vs. I am joes ex business partner and the asshole ripped me off (not so believable)

                Making a statement against ones penal interest is a strong measure of Veracity
                example: I was buying meth from Joe and he keeps it in a box on his table

                It is true as stated above that a LEO does not HAVE to provide a judge with all information they have. There is no statute that says that. The caselaw (the record of actual cases and their outcomes) says otherwise though. If a LEO presents a search warrant affidavit to a judge and it is later found that the LEO intentionally failed to provide information to the judge that might influnce his decision to issue the warrant then the fruits of that search warrant will be inadmissible. There are plenty of cases out there in the public record that show this.

                In this case it was discovered through investigation by the house intelligence committe that it appears to them that the LEO (in this case the FBI) intentionally withheld the fact that the dossier that was relied upon in part as the probable cause for a search warrant was paid for by a political campaign, and or a political party as part of the presidential election.

                If the search warrant does not include a statement indicating the source of the dossier then any fruit of that search warrant, either direct or indirect will be excluded. Bad police work.

                Now we get into intention. The FBI is much more aware of caselaw regarding search warrants than I. As indicated they do this for a living. That gives the presumption of Knowledge. That they KNEW they were doing something wrong. That they KNEW that if this ever made it to court the search warrant would be deemed invalid.

                So the question to be asked is WHY. Well, when we add in the text messages between two people that were part of this case, and their hopes to affect the presidency then we have our answer.

                Two or more Persons in the FBI (not all persons) intentionally attempted to use their official capacity for their political agenda.

                KEVIN SANDERS
                4788 LISAS WAY
                SEWARD, ALASKA

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                  #39
                  Originally posted by TX H210 SS View Post
                  This is really much simpler than being portrayed and have a few points to share. Correct it is

                  1. Law Enforcement is not obliged to provide ALL information known to obtain a warrant. What is to be provided is sufficient informotion needed to establish the probable cause level of proof needed to obtain the warrant. Correct again

                  2. The info provided must establish probable cause and additional non included info can't be used to bolster the warrant. In short, the proof must stand within the "4 corners of the document". Now to the meat of it. Was he GPS Document the main evidence (as the Republicans maintain) or the information used only to bolster the warrant (as the Democrats maintain). Without looking at the full warrant no one can know.

                  3. Law Enforcement MUST provide any exculpatiry information and assert the info is truthful and reliable. THIS IS WHERE THIS TRAIN LEFT THE RAILS. This is where you have strayed off the rails. The information WAS provided in that the GPS used document used to bolster the warrant was classed as information from an Political Source.

                  For a law enforcement officer to present info that was known or should have been known to be tainted or false is shocking. In this case the allegation is the info was provided by paid source who was paid to provide discrediting info. This doesn't in itself mean the info was a lie, but damn sure means the info must be independently verified to be accurate. Seems that didn't occur or couldn't occur, so they went with the tainted fruit. How do you know it was tainted or even false. Perhaps it is true and since the information is classified it has not yet been released.

                  Failing to provide the exculpatory info to the judge and presenting info as factsoon they knew to be truthful and accurate is HORRIBLE if they didn't verify the info....time will tell if this is what happened. To me the MEMO is disturbing, but it's only a memo about what they've read and interpreted. Again Correct

                  The source of the memo also has an agenda and needs to be kept in perspective though. What this tells me is there does need to be a totally independent investigation into this situation....and not a biased congressional investigation. What's so disturbing about the allegations is WHO can conduct this investigation? DOJ, FBI, Congressional Committee......NOT! The investigation is ongoing and yet to be released by the internal watchdog. The republicans have seen that interim report. Could it be it does not support their memo hence the rush to release the memo ?

                  In short, the Executive and Legislative branches have too much skin in the game....that leaves the Judicial Branch, but this is outside their scope.

                  if true, those fed officers who presented info to judge are done in law enforcement. They are required to provide their involvement in this with any case they are involved in or have been involved in.... Again Correct but if NOT true then Nunez and everyone who piled on needs to be finished if not prosecuted.

                  Sorry for the ramble, but truth and integrity of law enforcement officer is their livelihood....violate it in one case and DONE. I haven't seen proof this is the case, but the allegations are there. I will say if I were them, I would be screaming for a full investigation and be sitting on courthouse steps to show the judge who signed the warrant.....for them to hide or dismiss need for investigation would be very very concerning. Again Correct
                  The question is why the rush to release the memo without the corresponding Democrats memo. Who truly has something to hide and needs FULL public support and not just the support of their base.

                  Comment


                    #40
                    Originally posted by donyt View Post

                    The question is why the rush to release the memo without the corresponding Democrats memo. Who truly has something to hide and needs FULL public support and not just the support of their base.
                    Richard Nixon’s presidency was damaged and listing in that fall of 1973, but not yet a lost cause. He had tossed his top aides overboard and survived the first surge of the Watergate scandal. His political base stood firm.

                    After a summer of contentious hearings, the Senate Watergate committee was viewed by most Americans “as partisan, biased and ‘out to get’ the president,” his congressional liaison reported to him. The special prosecutor, Archibald Cox, was slogging in the courts, pleading for evidence. The public seemed quiescent. Republican pollsters found that just 9 percent of the electorate listed Watergate as the top issue confronting the country—far behind the 42 percent who fretted about inflation.
                    Watching crow being slowly eaten in the PNW.
                    The village idiot strikes again.

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                      #41
                      So, everyone knows that a FISA warrant has to be renewed every 90 days right ? (har har har har har har)
                      Nunes Memo Accidentally Confirms the Legitimacy of the FBI’s Investigation


                      https://theintercept.com/2018/02/02/...-trump-russia/

                      Comment


                        #42
                        Originally posted by donyt View Post

                        The question is why the rush to release the memo without the corresponding Democrats memo. Who truly has something to hide and needs FULL public support and not just the support of their base.
                        I don't feel there was a rush to release the memo, considering this ordeal has been dragging on and on. This memo is a summary of conclusions based on review of case documents...this is not a conclusion of what I would call an investigation. What the memo does is show there needs to be a thorough investigation of the investigation.

                        Naming the source as a political source is subjective at best and doesn't identify the relationship of the source to those parties involved in the investigation. To imply such a vague phrase conveys to the magistrate the information was paid for by Democrat presidential candidate to someone retained to report disparaging information on an opponent and the focus of the wire is employed to oversee the election of that opponent isn't realistic.

                        Again, this memo isn't a fact and I understand that....all I'm saying is the facts need to be verified, investigated and reviewed by competent sources and that aint anyone with a political agenda.

                        The 90 day continuance involves disclosure that information being obtained is relevant to the investigation for which the warrant was obtained. Should the original warrant issuance be discredited then nothing obtained as result is admissible for anything other than gossip.

                        There is NOTHING outside the warrant that can be used to bolster the probable cause of the warrant period....if it's not in the affidavit seeking the warrant then it doesn't exist in eyes of the court. If the officer seeking the warrant has other info that's not included in the document, then that info can not be included in the basis for establishing probable cause for the issuance of that warrant. It either has to be written in the affidavit or attached to it as an addendum.

                        The answer to all this falls in the affidavit presented to the judge for the warrant. Do we need to see that document.....NO. That document will contain information as to processes the public doesn't need to know.....but a competent source does need to review it and investigate the info that was put in it.

                        If the memo does turn out to be accurate....there will be more hell than a little but for those involved. At this point it's not clear that the Democrats put Steele up to turning this over to the fbi and initiating any federal investigation...the implication is there that this occurred, but that's all.....it could be that Steele saw a chance to get paid twice for the babble and jumped on it. To me the BIG question is was the source disclosed to the judge and did the info reported as facts get verified to actually be facts.

                        I'm obviously a Trump supporter, but all this memo shows me is there needs to be an investigation of the investigation.
                        Current: 2008 H210SS Four Winns
                        Prior: 1997 2050SS Bayliner

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                          #43
                          Originally posted by TX H210 SS View Post


                          I'm obviously a Trump supporter, but all this memo shows me is there needs to be an investigation of the investigation.
                          You are also either a Attorney, or you are someone that has taken the time to become intimatly familiar with the 4th ammendment, and the case law that defines its practical menaing.

                          KEVIN SANDERS
                          4788 LISAS WAY
                          SEWARD, ALASKA

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                            #44
                            Yup, lots of attorneys here I am sure.

                            Any attorney would know that this memo has zero legal basis or real bearing on anything. If you are so gullible as to think it's more than Trump's reality show, well then get your head checked out.

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                              #45

                              FROM HPSCI MAJORITY
                              FISA MEMO: CHARGE AND RESPONSE
                              2003 Bayliner 245
                              2007 Sedona F21

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