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    #31
    Originally posted by baylineguy View Post
    Since most of the illegal drugs come across the southern border, that leads us back to building a better wall, physical, electronic, or both to slow down the flow of those drugs.
    If you squeeze the supply, you raise the cost of them and more of those addicted will seek treatment. We do need to fund treatment for drug addiction along with making those drugs harder to get.
    I disagree, and here's where I lean on my personal experience since addiction has touched some people I care about. I strongly feel you need addiction support AND reduction in the drug flow. You can't do one or the other.
    Matt Train
    BOC Site Team
    Chicagoland, IL

    Comment


      #32
      Originally posted by Download_Complete View Post

      Thanks Rick, I forgot your background, and this is great info.

      I still think these people need more support. I understand some of the more hard-right here view this as hand outs and freeloading, but these people cannot do this on their own, especially with our opioid epidemic.

      It starts with figuring out who wants out of this situation, and what it will take to get them out.

      As an aside, it does make me look around and appreciate what I have a lot more.
      When I retired the were pilot programs being developed by HUD focused on housing drug addicted people and convicted felons released from prison. Those two groups are amongst the most often ending up homeless. Felons often can’t find employment and can’t earn a livelihood. You know the problems for drug addicts. There was also a program coming along for homeless vets, and there are lots of them. The programs focused on the continuum of care people need, not just housing issues. There are things in the works to address these issues but, as always, funding is always an issue.
      1990 2755 - sold
      2005 275 current vessel

      Comment


        #33
        Originally posted by Download_Complete View Post

        Yes, I agree, but that won't help the people who are already addicted. What you are proposing will cut the supply off, but we're dealing with addicts here....they need support and help.
        We should supply that help.
        2003 Bayliner 245
        2007 Sedona F21

        Comment


          #34
          Originally posted by Rick_Kenyon View Post

          When I retired the were pilot programs being developed by HUD focused on housing drug addicted people and convicted felons released from prison. Those two groups are amongst the most often ending up homeless. Felons often can’t find employment and can’t earn a livelihood. You know the problems for drug addicts. There was also a program coming along for homeless vets, and there are lots of them. The programs focused on the continuum of care people need, not just housing issues. There are things in the works to address these issues but, as always, funding is always an issue.
          Thanks Rick. That's about what I would expect the answer to be.

          SOunds like with the opioid epidemic, perhaps we need to put more funding into the programs we already have.
          Matt Train
          BOC Site Team
          Chicagoland, IL

          Comment


            #35
            Originally posted by Download_Complete View Post

            I disagree, and here's where I lean on my personal experience since addiction has touched some people I care about. I strongly feel you need addiction support AND reduction in the drug flow. You can't do one or the other.
            Hmm, thats pretty much what I said in my post you responded too.
            We do need to fund treatment for drug addiction along with making those drugs harder to get.
            1998 3587 Bayliner, Port Orchard, WA

            Comment


              #36
              Originally posted by baylineguy View Post
              Since most of the illegal drugs come across the southern border, that leads us back to building a better wall, physical, electronic, or both to slow down the flow of those drugs.
              If you squeeze the supply, you raise the cost of them and more of those addicted will seek treatment. We do need to fund treatment for drug addiction along with making those drugs harder to get.
              I agree 100%. Not only will a secure border significantly reduce illegal immigration but it will also reduce drug trafficking, human trafficking and terrorism.
              2003 Bayliner 245
              2007 Sedona F21

              Comment


                #37
                Originally posted by Download_Complete View Post

                Thanks Rick. That's about what I would expect the answer to be.

                SOunds like with the opioid epidemic, perhaps we need to put more funding into the programs we already have.
                We definately could have issued probably 3 times the section 8 vouchers that we were allowed, there was that much need. The longer term focus of HUD and the Federal government, in general, is to shift the model away from public housing because it costs too much to maintain the units. It’s much cheaper to pay a section 8 voucher and put the owness on the private landlord to maintain the unit, lease the unit, etc, etc. Because of that , I think it’s Highly unlikely you will see any new public housing built in the future. You will see tear downs and replacement units, and perhaps special types of housing for specific individuals, like homeless, drug addicted, etc. but not likely to see much expansion in public housing. The increases will be shifted to section 8. It’s privatization of low income housing and the private sector can do it less expensively than the government.
                1990 2755 - sold
                2005 275 current vessel

                Comment


                  #38
                  Originally posted by baylineguy View Post

                  Hmm, thats pretty much what I said in my post you responded too.
                  We do need to fund treatment for drug addiction along with making those drugs harder to get.
                  Sorry, I read it as another billboard for The Wall. I am way, way more interested in drug addiction support, since that's where I feel the most pressing need is.

                  Matt Train
                  BOC Site Team
                  Chicagoland, IL

                  Comment


                    #39
                    Originally posted by Rick_Kenyon View Post

                    We definately could have issued probably 3 times the section 8 vouchers that we were allowed, there was that much need. The longer term focus of HUD and the Federal government, in general, is to shift the model away from public housing because it costs too much to maintain the units. It’s much cheaper to pay a section 8 voucher and put the owness on the private landlord to maintain the unit, lease the unit, etc, etc. Because of that , I think it’s Highly unlikely you will see any new public housing built in the future. You will see tear downs and replacement units, and perhaps special types of housing for specific individuals, like homeless, drug addicted, etc. but not likely to see much expansion in public housing. The increases will be shifted to section 8. It’s privatization of low income housing and the private sector can do it less expensively than the government.
                    Without much experience in the industry, I would even be okay with Section 8 housing. It makes sense, and it's sustainable without overly burdening the public.

                    Public housing has NIMBY connotations that probably get messy anyway.
                    Matt Train
                    BOC Site Team
                    Chicagoland, IL

                    Comment


                      #40
                      Originally posted by Douggy View Post

                      I agree 100%. Not only will a secure border significantly reduce illegal immigration but it will also reduce drug trafficking, human trafficking and terrorism.
                      *sigh*

                      We don't have problems with terrorism right now. We have a "wall" courtesy of homeland security. But that's for another thread.

                      I doubt the wall will help with drug trafficking because I don't think the issue is getting drugs through the border. I believe they are coming in through other means - like planes, boats, and other forms of border crossing. But we would need someone from DEA or another expert to come in and weigh in on that, since I don't think anyone knows the true avenues for drug trafficking.
                      Matt Train
                      BOC Site Team
                      Chicagoland, IL

                      Comment


                        #41
                        Originally posted by Download_Complete View Post

                        Public housing has NIMBY connotations that probably get messy anyway.
                        That is also a HUGE problem. People don’t want it in their neighborhoods. Another factor driving the shift to section 8.
                        1990 2755 - sold
                        2005 275 current vessel

                        Comment


                          #42
                          Originally posted by Download_Complete View Post

                          *sigh*

                          We don't have problems with terrorism right now. We have a "wall" courtesy of homeland security. But that's for another thread.

                          I doubt the wall will help with drug trafficking because I don't think the issue is getting drugs through the border. I believe they are coming in through other means - like planes, boats, and other forms of border crossing. But we would need someone from DEA or another expert to come in and weigh in on that, since I don't think anyone knows the true avenues for drug trafficking.
                          I said a secure border which includes much more than just a wall. Securing our borders does not mean they only protect at the physical borders. It means monitoring the skies, waterways, space and all ports of entry including airports and shipping/passenger ports.
                          2003 Bayliner 245
                          2007 Sedona F21

                          Comment


                            #43
                            Originally posted by Download_Complete View Post

                            Without much experience in the industry, I would even be okay with Section 8 housing. It makes sense, and it's sustainable without overly burdening the public.

                            Public housing has NIMBY connotations that probably get messy anyway.
                            Look at what was don't after Hurricane Katrina with temporary housing communities.
                            2003 Bayliner 245
                            2007 Sedona F21

                            Comment


                              #44
                              Originally posted by Douggy View Post

                              Look at what was don't after Hurricane Katrina with temporary housing communities.
                              The problem with temporary anything is they tend to become permanent.

                              Matt Train
                              BOC Site Team
                              Chicagoland, IL

                              Comment


                                #45
                                Originally posted by Download_Complete View Post

                                The problem with temporary anything is they tend to become permanent.
                                Not if the occupants agree to the terms of agreement. A temporary housing program should include a treatment for addiction program and job skills program that requires success to continue temporary housing. It could also include a job search and placement program at the end. People who are not successful should be removed from the program after a few attempts to help them get on track.
                                2003 Bayliner 245
                                2007 Sedona F21

                                Comment

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