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    #16
    Originally posted by baylineguy View Post

    No, but the tax cuts will create more job opportunities for them. You live in a dark world. Is your house painted black?
    I won't bother to answer that. Let's try again: How do you plan on getting homeless off the street in a constructive manner, meaning housed, employed, and back into society?
    Matt Train
    BOC Site Team
    Chicagoland, IL

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      #17
      Originally posted by Download_Complete View Post

      I won't bother to answer that. Let's try again: How do you plan on getting homeless off the street in a constructive manner, meaning housed, employed, and back into society?
      I already answered it in the post you quoted. Sure, some people like the life of homelessness and there is no helping them. But I believe most want to get out of it. Don't you think most of them have family and friends somewhere that are worried about them? If job opportunities open up for those with some motivation, they will find a way to get to where the jobs are just like they found a way to get to Orange county. Maybe a friend or a family member will even buy them a ticket back home if they were confident there will be a job for them. Which gets back to the answer being to improve the economy so that there are more job opportunities.

      Now, how would you deal with it?
      1998 3587 Bayliner, Port Orchard, WA

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        #18
        Most don't WANT back in. They have sunk to this level through addiction, bad choices and mental illness.

        Welfare reform that includes work requirements will be a good start. You want help? You gotta pull your share;.
        Custom CNC Design And Dash Panels

        iBoatNW

        1980 CHB Europa 42 Trawler- "Honey Badger"

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          #19
          Originally posted by baylineguy View Post

          I already answered it in the post you quoted. Sure, some people like the life of homelessness and there is no helping them. But I believe most want to get out of it. Don't you think most of them have family and friends somewhere that are worried about them? If job opportunities open up for those with some motivation, they will find a way to get to where the jobs are just like they found a way to get to Orange county. Maybe a friend or a family member will even buy them a ticket back home if they were confident there will be a job for them. Which gets back to the answer being to improve the economy so that there are more job opportunities.

          Now, how would you deal with it?
          1. Evaluation and addiction support: Find out which ones are willing to get out of homelessness, but need help. Take them, give them the support they need, and help them get to step 2.
          2. Housing - Find a way to house these people. Either temporarily while they work on Step 3, or low income subsidy housing.
          3. Work - We need to develop programs keyed to homeless people that want to reenter the workforce. Some of these people have prior convictions due to bad choices, but if they want to get out of their situation, they need help. Also, some jobs require a fixed address. If you're homeless, that's a problem.
          4. Make help contingent on results. These people need some accountability to ensure they don't slip back to their old ways.

          Start there, and see how the results go. There is no silver bullet so I want to iterate and develop a phased approach.
          Matt Train
          BOC Site Team
          Chicagoland, IL

          Comment


            #20
            I worked in the housing industry for several years. There is a huge problem finding enough housing for public assistance individuals. There are far more needs than the system can provide. We ran a section 8 program and a public housing program. People looking for housing had to sign up on our waiting lists. On average, it took 3 years for their name to get to the top of the list. And we only had 400 public housing units and 1400 section 8 vouchers. There’s is federal law capping the total number of public housing units available in the country, plus there simply is not enough funding for any additional PH units. Section 8 vouchers are more obtainable but still, funding is limited. By the time someone gets to the top of the list, they have often left the area or have made some other living arrangements. Finding any additional low income housing is a huge problem in this country.
            1990 2755 - sold
            2005 275 current vessel

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              #21
              Originally posted by Rick_Kenyon View Post
              I worked in the housing industry for several years. There is a huge problem finding enough housing for public assistance individuals. There are far more needs than the system can provide. We ran a section 8 program and a public housing program. People looking for housing had to sign up on our waiting lists. On average, it took 3 years for their name to get to the top of the list. And we only had 400 public housing units and 1400 section 8 vouchers. There’s is federal law capping the total number of public housing units available in the country, plus there simply is not enough funding for any additional PH units. Section 8 vouchers are more obtainable but still, funding is limited. By the time someone gets to the top of the list, they have often left the area or have made some other living arrangements. Finding any additional low income housing is a huge problem in this country.
              Thanks Rick, I forgot your background, and this is great info.

              I still think these people need more support. I understand some of the more hard-right here view this as hand outs and freeloading, but these people cannot do this on their own, especially with our opioid epidemic.

              It starts with figuring out who wants out of this situation, and what it will take to get them out.

              As an aside, it does make me look around and appreciate what I have a lot more.
              Matt Train
              BOC Site Team
              Chicagoland, IL

              Comment


                #22
                Originally posted by Download_Complete View Post

                1. Evaluation and addiction support: Find out which ones are willing to get out of homelessness, but need help. Take them, give them the support they need, and help them get to step 2.
                2. Housing - Find a way to house these people. Either temporarily while they work on Step 3, or low income subsidy housing.
                3. Work - We need to develop programs keyed to homeless people that want to reenter the workforce. Some of these people have prior convictions due to bad choices, but if they want to get out of their situation, they need help. Also, some jobs require a fixed address. If you're homeless, that's a problem.
                4. Make help contingent on results. These people need some accountability to ensure they don't slip back to their old ways.

                Start there, and see how the results go. There is no silver bullet so I want to iterate and develop a phased approach.
                Sounds reasonable. A few questions:

                Where should the money come from for this? We all know California is broke. Should Orange county raise local taxes to pay for this and what taxes would you raise to cover it?
                What would you do about the local residents who say: Not in my neighborhood for all this low income housing that would be needed.
                How would you create these jobs? Private or public sector? (If public that requires still more taxes to pay for it)

                I ask these questions because Seattle is going through similar issues with homelessness. They keep coming up with new plans to raise money by increasing taxes and creating minihouse communities for the homeless. The problem keeps getting worse though because word is out among the homeless that Seattle (nicknamed Free-atle) is a great place to come and pitch a tent. And Seattle doesn't even have nice weather this time of year either. The homeless that come here, tend to also be more aggressive and drug addicted as Seattle offers free needles and safe zones for those who like to shoot up. It's a mess.
                1998 3587 Bayliner, Port Orchard, WA

                Comment


                  #23
                  Originally posted by baylineguy View Post

                  Sounds reasonable. A few questions:

                  Where should the money come from for this? We all know California is broke. Should Orange county raise local taxes to pay for this and what taxes would you raise to cover it?
                  What would you do about the local residents who say: Not in my neighborhood for all this low income housing that would be needed.
                  How would you create these jobs? Private or public sector? (If public that requires still more taxes to pay for it)

                  I ask these questions because Seattle is going through similar issues with homelessness. They keep coming up with new plans to raise money by increasing taxes and creating minihouse communities for the homeless. The problem keeps getting worse though because word is out among the homeless that Seattle (nicknamed Free-atle) is a great place to come and pitch a tent. And Seattle doesn't even have nice weather this time of year either. The homeless that come here, tend to also be more aggressive and drug addicted as Seattle offers free needles and safe zones for those who like to shoot up. It's a mess.
                  I guess that depends on how badly you want to solve the problem. Sounds like taxes need to be part of the solution, and if that's off the table then I got nothing, and this problem doesn't get solved.

                  And you are quick to blame "Free-attle", but if you make all locations hostile,...well, the homeless need to go somewhere.

                  Not saying doing nothing is an option. I dislike seeing homeless people in Chicago too. But you need to have solutions, and I don't see the private sector stepping up.
                  Matt Train
                  BOC Site Team
                  Chicagoland, IL

                  Comment


                    #24
                    As far as cost of living goes in Orange county, it's skyrocketed over the last 15 years. Here is the data, mainly from 2016 ... Orange County, California (CA)

                    These people need jobs, hope and motivation. They have had neither for a very long time.
                    2003 Bayliner 245
                    2007 Sedona F21

                    Comment


                      #25
                      Originally posted by Douggy View Post
                      As far as cost of living goes in Orange county, it's skyrocketed over the last 15 years. Here the data from 2016 ... Orange County, California (CA)

                      These people need jobs, hope and motivation. They have had neither for a very long time.
                      I actually agree with you for a change, but I would re-order that:

                      1. Hope
                      2. Addiction support
                      3. Jobs
                      4. Motivation
                      Matt Train
                      BOC Site Team
                      Chicagoland, IL

                      Comment


                        #26
                        Originally posted by Download_Complete View Post

                        I guess that depends on how badly you want to solve the problem. Sounds like taxes need to be part of the solution, and if that's off the table then I got nothing, and this problem doesn't get solved.

                        And you are quick to blame "Free-attle", but if you make all locations hostile,...well, the homeless need to go somewhere.

                        Not saying doing nothing is an option. I dislike seeing homeless people in Chicago too. But you need to have solutions, and I don't see the private sector stepping up.
                        Up here in Bellingham, the private sector provides shelters and free meals. It’s a not for profit business but everyone still gets paid. Problem is there are no laws against panhandling, so the demand exceeds the supply, they keep coming. The homeless shelter company wanted to expand and buy a few buildings down on the waterfront but the port was smart enough to say no. The shelter wanted to take over the buildings that had several successful marine related business’s so they could expand the shelter.
                        My solution, giant tent city in Yuma. Let the Marines babysit them while they learn to farm. DRMO has tons of free surplus tents to get this thing started.
                        Esteban
                        Detroit, MI
                        Former Bayliners 3218, 2859, 2252, 1952

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                          #27
                          Originally posted by green650 View Post

                          Up here in Bellingham, the private sector provides shelters and free meals. It’s a not for profit business but everyone still gets paid. Problem is there are no laws against panhandling, so the demand exceeds the supply, they keep coming. The homeless shelter company wanted to expand and buy a few buildings down on the waterfront but the port was smart enough to say no. The shelter wanted to take over the buildings that had several successful marine related business’s so they could expand the shelter.
                          My solution, giant tent city in Yuma. Let the Marines babysit them while they learn to farm. DRMO has tons of free surplus tents to get this thing started.
                          SO it's good to know there is a model where private sector can help.

                          I disagree that sending them to Yuma and babysitting them with military is the best use of our military resources. Plus you have the problem of not being able to keep them there, and the fact that there's not much in that part of the country.
                          Matt Train
                          BOC Site Team
                          Chicagoland, IL

                          Comment


                            #28
                            Originally posted by Download_Complete View Post

                            I actually agree with you for a change, but I would re-order that:

                            1. Hope
                            2. Addiction support
                            3. Jobs
                            4. Motivation
                            A big part of the addiction problem is the availability of drugs. We must do anything we can do cutoff the flow of dangerous and lethal drugs into our country.
                            2003 Bayliner 245
                            2007 Sedona F21

                            Comment


                              #29
                              Originally posted by Douggy View Post

                              A big part of the addition problem is the availability of drugs. We must do anything we can do cutoff the flow of dangerous and lethal drugs into our country.
                              Yes, I agree, but that won't help the people who are already addicted. What you are proposing will cut the supply off, but we're dealing with addicts here....they need support and help.
                              Matt Train
                              BOC Site Team
                              Chicagoland, IL

                              Comment


                                #30
                                Since most of the illegal drugs come across the southern border, that leads us back to building a better wall, physical, electronic, or both to slow down the flow of those drugs.
                                If you squeeze the supply, you raise the cost of them and more of those addicted will seek treatment. We do need to fund treatment for drug addiction along with making those drugs harder to get.
                                1998 3587 Bayliner, Port Orchard, WA

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