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    Atlanta airport power outage

    fire airport manager. Make #2 the boss. If not solved in an hour, fire #2, hire #3, and so on until you find the one who actually knows what to do to restore operations or at least clear those folks out of there. Absolutely ridiculous.

    http://www.cnn.com/2017/12/17/us/atl...age/index.html
    Bayliner 195 Bowrider 2013 4.3l 220hp MPI
    Alpha 1, Gen II
    2019 F-150 3.0l Powerstroke Crew Cab 4WD
    Albany, Ohio

    MMSI: 338234042

    King of retirement. Finally got that last promotion.

    #2
    Sorry Nick, got to disagree with your apprasial. Not sure how firing people would have made it any better or fixed faster. There was a fire and it burned into the utility tunnel that then took out the backup system. They had to wait for the fumes to clear to go into the area to see what happened and the to work out a plan to fix it. I'm impressed that they got people and parts together to fix it in that time frame. Finding replacement switch gear, etc. of that size isn't easy, a weekend isn't making it any better.

    It's a big airport, uses lots of power. So it's not like they can drag a few 50 amp cables over from another dock to get power. It has over 200 gates and that electric train gobbles power.

    Last, it was a team effort, chopping heads off the top every hours isn't going to make the fingers fly any faster. They got one concourse up in 6 hours, the others took 4 more hours.

    Yep, my 4588 Bayliner IS my happy place :whistle:

    Comment


      #3
      They did the best they could !
      Be good, be happy, for tomorrow is promised to no man !

      1994 2452, 5.0l, Alpha gen. 2 drive. Sold ! Sold ! Sold !

      '86 / 19' Citation cuddy, Merc. 3.0L / 140 hp 86' , stringer drive. Sold ! Sold ! Sold !

      Manalapan N.J

      Comment


        #4
        Originally posted by Foster View Post
        Sorry Nick, got to disagree with your apprasial. Not sure how firing people would have made it any better or fixed faster. There was a fire and it burned into the utility tunnel that then took out the backup system. They had to wait for the fumes to clear to go into the area to see what happened and the to work out a plan to fix it. I'm impressed that they got people and parts together to fix it in that time frame. Finding replacement switch gear, etc. of that size isn't easy, a weekend isn't making it any better.

        It's a big airport, uses lots of power. So it's not like they can drag a few 50 amp cables over from another dock to get power. It has over 200 gates and that electric train gobbles power.

        Last, it was a team effort, chopping heads off the top every hours isn't going to make the fingers fly any faster. They got one concourse up in 6 hours, the others took 4 more hours.
        right on most points but those were not really redundant systems. Someone, maybe someone in the past, was really dumb.

        Bayliner 195 Bowrider 2013 4.3l 220hp MPI
        Alpha 1, Gen II
        2019 F-150 3.0l Powerstroke Crew Cab 4WD
        Albany, Ohio

        MMSI: 338234042

        King of retirement. Finally got that last promotion.

        Comment


          #5
          That I'll agree with, someone in the past was either dumb or overly optimistic on "what could go wrong?!?" Lots of people that build systems never go, "Ok, it's quadruple redundant lets think of the case on how it breaks anyway."

          The person that messed up, Atlanta should keep on their staff, give them a raise, and not let them do any more design work. That way they know where the idiot is, other people don't get the idiot where they can cause new trouble for them. Your idiot doesn't leave so you need to hire a new idiot and now you have new problems on the horizon.

          Lots of places have a take out the trash or "pass the trash" policy around stupid. I do my part for the greater good and "keep the trash", I learned the hard / expensive way, no sense in someone else getting hurt.

          Lots of places do what I do, how did you think Adult Coloring got to be so popular. ;-P
          Yep, my 4588 Bayliner IS my happy place :whistle:

          Comment


            #6
            Originally posted by Foster View Post
            Sorry Nick, got to disagree with your apprasial. Not sure how firing people would have made it any better or fixed faster. There was a fire and it burned into the utility tunnel that then took out the backup system. They had to wait for the fumes to clear to go into the area to see what happened and the to work out a plan to fix it. I'm impressed that they got people and parts together to fix it in that time frame. Finding replacement switch gear, etc. of that size isn't easy, a weekend isn't making it any better.

            It's a big airport, uses lots of power. So it's not like they can drag a few 50 amp cables over from another dock to get power. It has over 200 gates and that electric train gobbles power.

            Last, it was a team effort, chopping heads off the top every hours isn't going to make the fingers fly any faster. They got one concourse up in 6 hours, the others took 4 more hours.
            I agree with your point.

            Comment


              #7
              Soooo, the person responsible for the smooth operations of the airport is, well, not really responsible? Doesn't work even in my world, higher education, where it's commonplace to pass the buck. I'm responsible for a lot of safety and operational infrastructure and the safe operation thereof. If I had a similar occurrence, I would be gone. No doubt about it. Not shuffled to the sidelines. Gone. No good reference to help me get another position. No second chance. And my responsibility is about 1/1000th of the Atlanta airport.

              The airport manager needs to be gone. He or she obviously does not understand that management includes responsibility to ensure massive service outages do not occur or, if they do, and sometimes they do because of freak occurrences (not the case here), there is a coherent pre-planned response to mitigate the affect on the people being provided service. No updates, no messaging? Nonsense. Massive technical failure, sure, but an even more significant leadership failure.

              regarding redundancy, a single event causing massive failure of critical systems means there was truly no redundancy. This has been experienced in my field...aeronautics and astronautics... time and time again, but the management assessment that "that single event can never happen" is always the cause of disasters. Columbia, Challenger, and on and on. All too often the doodoo does rise to the top and is giving orders and the ones issuing the warnings are not "team players" and therefore are ignored.

              Management without leadership and management without responsibility is worthless.
              Bayliner 195 Bowrider 2013 4.3l 220hp MPI
              Alpha 1, Gen II
              2019 F-150 3.0l Powerstroke Crew Cab 4WD
              Albany, Ohio

              MMSI: 338234042

              King of retirement. Finally got that last promotion.

              Comment


                #8
                It would seem that the airport manager has proven once again the Peter Principle...
                Jeff & Tara (And Ginger too)
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                And 12 others...
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                Comment


                  #9
                  Originally posted by Nickdixon View Post
                  Soooo, the person responsible for the smooth operations of the airport is, well, not really responsible? Doesn't work even in my world, higher education, where it's commonplace to pass the buck. I'm responsible for a lot of safety and operational infrastructure and the safe operation thereof. If I had a similar occurrence, I would be gone. No doubt about it. Not shuffled to the sidelines. Gone. No good reference to help me get another position. No second chance. And my responsibility is about 1/1000th of the Atlanta airport.

                  The airport manager needs to be gone. He or she obviously does not understand that management includes responsibility to ensure massive service outages do not occur or, if they do, and sometimes they do because of freak occurrences (not the case here), there is a coherent pre-planned response to mitigate the affect on the people being provided service. No updates, no messaging? Nonsense. Massive technical failure, sure, but an even more significant leadership failure.

                  [snip..]

                  Management without leadership and management without responsibility is worthless.
                  So I'm waiting to see what the final decide is, but the one article I found said this:

                  According to a spokesperson from Mayor Kasim Reed’s office, flames broke out when a piece of Georgia Power’s switchgear failed in an underground electrical facility. This happened next to redundant circuit cables and switching mechanisms, which forced the loss of power from two separate back-up power substations – thus the delay in returning to full power.

                  “Understand that we’ve never had a situation like this, and our redundant system had been working flawlessly for us for probably about three decades now,” Airport General Manager Roosevelt Council Jr. told Fox News Monday.

                  A spokesperson for Georgia Power said in a statement that “we cannot and do not guarantee uninterrupted electric power service.”
                  Reading that and knowing about Power Company Maintenance, I'm going to hazard that they have done the switch from primary to backup and return across the years. So the "system" worked. As I posted before, there is some design engineer that didn't do the "what if we have a fire here in this tunnel" planning.

                  I'd be hard pressed to fire the manager that can show me "Here is the system, here are the tests, here are the results, we did the necessary checkout of the system" for having a fire. There is a limited amount of planning you can do, who knows, was fire planning? Do they have "Zombies enter the tunnel and get caught in the switch gear" planning?

                  Delta and the airlines are going to sue for 10's of millions. There is a good article here from the guy that designed data centers for Amazon. He talks about power DR for the airport.

                  He estimates they could have full backups with generators, etc for about $22 million single cost and a recurring cost of 10%. It will be interesting to see what the Airport does.

                  I had taken your original post about when the power outage started to fire the manager, then give the 2IC the job and give him an hour, when that hour is done, he's gone and the 3IC gets the task. Are you now saying now that the dust has settled, the manager goes and 2IC gets a crack?

                  Yep, my 4588 Bayliner IS my happy place :whistle:

                  Comment


                    #10
                    Originally posted by Foster View Post

                    So I'm waiting to see what the final decide is, but the one article I found said this:



                    Reading that and knowing about Power Company Maintenance, I'm going to hazard that they have done the switch from primary to backup and return across the years. So the "system" worked. As I posted before, there is some design engineer that didn't do the "what if we have a fire here in this tunnel" planning.

                    I'd be hard pressed to fire the manager that can show me "Here is the system, here are the tests, here are the results, we did the necessary checkout of the system" for having a fire. There is a limited amount of planning you can do, who knows, was fire planning? Do they have "Zombies enter the tunnel and get caught in the switch gear" planning?

                    Delta and the airlines are going to sue for 10's of millions. There is a good article here from the guy that designed data centers for Amazon. He talks about power DR for the airport.

                    He estimates they could have full backups with generators, etc for about $22 million single cost and a recurring cost of 10%. It will be interesting to see what the Airport does.

                    I had taken your original post about when the power outage started to fire the manager, then give the 2IC the job and give him an hour, when that hour is done, he's gone and the 3IC gets the task. Are you now saying now that the dust has settled, the manager goes and 2IC gets a crack?
                    What im saying is that the top person is responsible. This attitude of manager as the unknowledgeable herder of the people who really know things must end, Yes, the manager must go and those below until the person who knew of the non-redundancy is found. If that person pointed it out, keep that person. If not, fire them. Then reconstitute the "management" structure with people who recognize that management means responsibility. They screwed up here, Foster and people who can foresee better and who can aggressively deal with the unforeseen must take over. Tens of thousands in the dark with no info is unacceptable. If that offends you, let me know how you feel AFTER you've been in such a situation.

                    crisis planning is not something you do once in the past and then forget about it. It is a continuous revisiting of the situation at the current time. One tunnel providing true redundancy? That was stupid no matter when it was done and a later airport manager should have done the "what ifs".
                    Bayliner 195 Bowrider 2013 4.3l 220hp MPI
                    Alpha 1, Gen II
                    2019 F-150 3.0l Powerstroke Crew Cab 4WD
                    Albany, Ohio

                    MMSI: 338234042

                    King of retirement. Finally got that last promotion.

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