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    Diesel Engine Kill Options-gctid357722

    I've run into a slight dilemma in my repower project. The Perkins 4.108 engine has a mechanical kill valve. It is spring loaded and has a looped lever, to which a cable typically attaches. It is pictured below, with the arrow pointing to the looped lever.



    Typically, a cable is run to the helm, with a separate lever for cutting the fuel supply to the engine. The lever is pulled, the valve closes, the engine loses its fuel supply and dies. This is normally viable, but the conduit I would need to utilize is quite full; and running an additional cable through it is not an option. I could run the cable alongside the conduit, but I want to resort to it only if other viable options are not available. Additionally, I would need to either piggyback the cable at the lower helm or have two separate cable runs, since I have a flybridge and would like to have the ability to kill the engine at the upper helm if necessary.

    I'm thinking of a different option and wanted to get everybody's feedback on it. If the fuel supply to the Diesel engine needs to be cut in order to kill it, can a solenoid located just prior to the fuel entry port accomplish the same task? That way, it would be simply a matter of running a wire to each helm. Needless to say, running a wire is much easier than running a shift cable. The only drawback my mechanic suggests is the amount of time it may take for the injector pump to deplete its supply of fuel; and the amount of time it would take for the injector pump to replenish itself when the engine is started.

    Any thoughts on this?

    Thanks in advance...

    #2
    With two helm locations, the solenoid actuator would appear to be the better option.

    Now you'll want to decide whether to Power ON or power OFF the fuel supply.

    I'd almost bet that there is something available for the Perkins.

    I don't know the fuel plumbing, and I'll have to assume that the Perkins 4.108 mechanical kill valve does not lend itself to any modfication.

    However, these can also be installed as a solenoid valve.

    Probably not an option!

    Ed, there is an option that would allow a single cable to the fuel valve and then this cable would connect to a 33C tandem cable converter unit.

    Two cables then leave the tandem unit and could go to each helm.

    This was by Morse and was used in the mid/late 70's or so!

    I can't find an image of one, or I'd post it.

    Edit;

    I was just looking at V/P parts on e-bay..... and low and behold...... lookie here.

    Probably will not adapt, but how ironic.

    http://www.ebay.com/itm/Volvo-Penta-...s_Gear&vxp=mtr
    Rick E. Gresham, Oregon
    2850 Bounty Sedan Flybridge model
    Twin 280 HP 5.7's w/ Closed Cooling
    Volvo Penta DuoProp Drives
    Kohler 4 CZ Gen Set

    Comment


      #3
      I would explore the solenoid/actuator option, how about remote actuator with linkage/cable to activate the shut off valve....

      I did something similar on a modified mechanical cummins 5.9 conversion into an ford F350, worked very well....and as for the depletion of fuel and the restart time, using the factory shut off valve was a non issue (at least on the this cummins engine), intant start up and shut down

      Comment


        #4
        TADI Diesel may have what you want contact them.

        http://www.tadiesels.com/stop_solenoids.html
        Pat says: DO-IT-RIGHT THE FIRST TIME!

        Bayliner 3870 "ALASKA33)
        Twin 350 GM power
        Located in Seward, AK
        Retired marine surveyor

        Comment


          #5
          Matt2452 wrote:
          I would explore the solenoid/actuator option, how about remote actuator with linkage/cable to activate the shut off valve....
          This was my thought as well.
          Jim McNeely
          New Hope a 2004 Bayliner 305 Sunbridge Express Cruiser
          Twin 5.7s with Bravo2 drives
          Brighton, Michigan USA
          MMSI # 367393410

          Comment


            #6
            You can use a diesel rated solenoid valve. This is a generally accepted practice for shutting down diesel generator engines.

            Not too many years ago many if not most injection pumps had no electrical connections. They utilized an external solenoid. A example was the onan DJ series of enignes. Then technology changed and the solenoid valve was added to the injection pump. It serves the exact same function.

            KEVIN SANDERS
            4788 LISAS WAY - SEWARD ALASKA
            www.transferswitch4less.com

            where are we right now?

            https://maps.findmespot.com/s/36S4

            Comment


              #7
              What's wrong with what you have now? Adding a solenoid and connections creats a potential unwanted problems (eg solenoid failure). I tend to keep things as simple as possible.

              Vic

              Ft Myers
              Vic Stewart SN
              Past Commander
              Cape Fear Power Squadron
              Ft Myers Power Squadron
              1998 2859 7.4 L/B2
              Raw water cooled

              Comment


                #8
                Vic, Ed does not have anything as of yet. This is a new diesel installation and he wants to avoid two push/pull cables one at each helm.

                The solenoid slave actuator is a decent solution.

                I like Matt's idea of the slave solenoid actuating a short cable if that's what it takes.
                Rick E. Gresham, Oregon
                2850 Bounty Sedan Flybridge model
                Twin 280 HP 5.7's w/ Closed Cooling
                Volvo Penta DuoProp Drives
                Kohler 4 CZ Gen Set

                Comment


                  #9
                  I find it hard to believe that a new diesel does not come with a solenoid.
                  Pat says: DO-IT-RIGHT THE FIRST TIME!

                  Bayliner 3870 "ALASKA33)
                  Twin 350 GM power
                  Located in Seward, AK
                  Retired marine surveyor

                  Comment


                    #10
                    OK

                    Vic

                    Ft Myers
                    Vic Stewart SN
                    Past Commander
                    Cape Fear Power Squadron
                    Ft Myers Power Squadron
                    1998 2859 7.4 L/B2
                    Raw water cooled

                    Comment


                      #11
                      Thanks for the valuable information everyone!

                      Matt2452 wrote:
                      I would explore the solenoid/actuator option, how about remote actuator with linkage/cable to activate the shut off valve....

                      I did something similar on a modified mechanical cummins 5.9 conversion into an ford F350, worked very well....and as for the depletion of fuel and the restart time, using the factory shut off valve was a non issue (at least on the this cummins engine), intant start up and shut down
                      JimMc wrote:
                      This was my thought as well.
                      2850Bounty wrote:
                      Vic, Ed does not have anything as of yet. This is a new diesel installation and he wants to avoid two push/pull cables one at each helm.

                      The solenoid slave actuator is a decent solution.

                      I like Matt's idea of the slave solenoid actuating a short cable if that's what it takes.
                      The slave solenoid attached to a pull cable idea is very appealing! The advantages I see are mainly centered around ease of installation. I could install it away from the engine and not need to worry about getting a special bracket fabricated for it to mount to the small area alloted on the engine

                      I just want to play devils advocate for a moment. The extra cable is, in fact, an extra part. On another level, it is an extra part capable of failing. Getting rusted, corroded, accidentally bent, etc remain additional risks. If the greatest level of reliability was sought, would the fact that this is an extra part prone to failure be a factor worth considering?

                      boatworkfl wrote:
                      TADI Diesel may have what you want contact them.

                      http://www.tadiesels.com/stop_solenoids.html
                      Thanks, Pat. I'm going to call them tomorrow and pick their brain. The people at TAD are great and every experience I've had with them has been a good one.

                      boatworkfl wrote:
                      I find it hard to believe that a new diesel does not come with a solenoid.
                      These engines are traditionally installed with a manual kill. It is often a pull mechanism at the helm. Several sailboats I've seen this installed on have the manual kill mechanism.

                      Comment


                        #12
                        I have installed aftermarket kill cables, on olders vessels.

                        If you use the solenoid for engine off, and it fails, you still can do what a number of older vessels did: Manual cable at the aft deck or near-by to shut down the engine.

                        Just a thought.
                        Pat says: DO-IT-RIGHT THE FIRST TIME!

                        Bayliner 3870 "ALASKA33)
                        Twin 350 GM power
                        Located in Seward, AK
                        Retired marine surveyor

                        Comment


                          #13
                          I just want to play devils advocate for a moment. The extra cable is, in fact, an extra part. On another level, it is an extra part capable of failing. Getting rusted, corroded, accidentally bent, etc remain additional risks. If the greatest level of reliability was sought, would the fact that this is an extra part prone to failure be a factor worth considering?
                          In my opinion a short cable and a marine quality actuator should be a very reliable setup (especially over 2 long cables being run from each helm)...also you have the benifit of designing the system, making it simple, and easily serviced...

                          you can also design it to be easily manually operate/overide in case of solenoid or cable failure.

                          also a huge advantage is the solenoid/actuator can be tied into both helm ignition switches...no additional switches... (this is what I did on the previous cummins/ford conversion mentioned earlier)

                          Comment


                            #14
                            Westerbeke uses one of their solenoids on their perkins 4-108 setup here (item 15-3):

                            http://www.marinedieseldirect.com/ca...ors=&comment1=

                            Comment


                              #15
                              So, Why would you go with a actuator on a cable rig that shuts off the fuel when a simple 12 volt solenoid can be used that does the exact same thing with allot fewer moving parts?

                              Fuel shutoff solenoids are pretty common off the shelf stuff. Why re-engineer something like this?

                              KEVIN SANDERS
                              4788 LISAS WAY - SEWARD ALASKA
                              www.transferswitch4less.com

                              where are we right now?

                              https://maps.findmespot.com/s/36S4

                              Comment

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