Me gots a rotten transom! Me gots a few questions... Seacast anyone?-gctid354662

[Guest]

I got a call from my mechanic today and this is how it went:

Dave: I took out your old gas tank. You can come pick it up.

Ed: Great. I'll be there tomorrow. By the way, did you find any rot under the tank.

Dave: Nope. It's all clear under there. But your transom, that's another story.

Ed: What?

Dave. Yup. I took the transom assembly off and it's pretty bad. I need to cut the glass, replace the wood, and glass over it.

Ed: How much is is going to cost?

Dave: $2800

Ed: I'll see you tomorrow.

I somehow knew I wasn't completely in the clear as far as the transom is concerned. I had allocated a budget for it when planning the repower...but I had my fingers crossed hoping it wouldn't be the case. Well, the grim reaper showed his face.

After speaking with Dave, I started researching my options. And as much as I didn't want to take Seacast seriously, I couldn't help but to constantly come across posts on other forums praising this stuff. I tried to look for negative comments about it and came across only a few -- both of which misapplied the product. The positive experiences overwhelmed the negative experiences. Can somebody please give me a reality check?

Now, the proper application of Seacast includes removing all of the rotten wood from between the fiberglass sections before pouring it in. There can be no rotten wood left over.

I even called several fiberglass repair shops specializing in marine repairs. They swear by Seacast and would not return to using wood.

I don't want this to be a p1ssing match between those who like Seacast and those who don't. Rather, I'd like to either hear about people's experience with the product, any disadvantages they are aware of, and any advantages of using wood over using Seacast.

From the research I've done, it seems like a wood core is not the best solution -- as it will be encapsulated in fiberglass, subject to osmosis, will end up rotting again. If I'm going to get this repair done, I don't want to have to do it again when my hair becomes grayer. As Einstein once said: You cannot solve a problem using the same consciousness that created it. It seems counterintuitive to replace the transom with wood knowing it will rot again.

I am thinking a composite material will not be prone to the destiny of my current transom. Can someone offer any insight here?

Thanks in advance...

[boatworkfl]

Marine plywood, resin coated with a vimyl ester especially between layers works great. The major problem with transom rot is the failure to seal any penetrations, especially the cut-out for an outdrive, bost are not sealed properly, the same with attachments screwed inti the transom.

Someone will chime in with the seacast or like suggestion. If the engine is out then you can cut out the inside FRP and work from there, thinner layers can be used to be sure and get a proper form and seal (resin and/or a layer of mat) between the layers using screws to hold the arc.; then glass the inside and seal any exterior screw holes holding the plywood.

There is a bit more to it than this but this is one way.

[Guest]

Bummer Ed. Seems with most boat projects there are always surprises, smart to budget for that unknown issue!

[2850Bounty]

Astral Blue wrote:
I got a call from my mechanic today and this is how it went:

Dave: Nope. It's all clear under there. But your transom, that's another story. Dave. Yup. I took the transom assembly off and it's pretty bad. I need to cut the glass, replace the wood, and glass over it.

I somehow knew I wasn't completely in the clear as far as the transom is concerned. I had allocated a budget for it when planning the repower...but I had my fingers crossed hoping it wouldn't be the case. Well, the grim reaper showed his face.

After speaking with Dave, I started researching my options. And as much as I didn't want to take Seacast seriously, I couldn't help but to constantly come across posts on other forums praising this stuff. I tried to look for negative comments about it and came across only a few -- both of which misapplied the product. The positive experiences overwhelmed the negative experiences. Can somebody please give me a reality check?

Now, the proper application of Seacast includes removing all of the rotten wood from between the fiberglass sections before pouring it in. There can be no rotten wood left over.

I even called several fiberglass repair shops specializing in marine repairs. They swear by Seacast and would not return to using wood.

I don't want this to be a p1ssing match between those who like Seacast and those who don't. Rather, I'd like to either hear about people's experience with the product, any disadvantages they are aware of, and any advantages of using wood over using Seacast.

From the research I've done, it seems like a wood core is not the best solution -- as it will be encapsulated in fiberglass, subject to osmosis, will end up rotting again. If I'm going to get this repair done, I don't want to have to do it again when my hair becomes grayer. As Einstein once said: You cannot solve a problem using the same consciousness that created it. It seems counterintuitive to replace the transom with wood knowing it will rot again.

I am thinking a composite material will not be prone to the destiny of my current transom. Can someone offer any insight here?

Thanks in advance...

First Ed, I hope that he isn't planning to cut out any portion of the fiberglass hull. He needs to remove the wood core material only, and down to the original hull material only.... and then stop.

Secondly, Sea Cast can be found on aisle 5 right next to the 70's "digital rolling tape measures", which are right next to "piston rings in a can", of which should be next to the "Always HOT S/P Intlet fittings".

If not, ask at the counter.

Yes, that was full of sarcasm!

Ed, we've spoken several times and I know how maticulous you have been to date with selecting the right person to do you install right on down to selecting the correct parts.

Why cut corners now?

Your wood transom core is a structural component. The correct plywood is a great strong product for this, and when installed correctly it creates a box beam affect. I can guarantee you that yours was assembled incorrectly from the beginning at Bayliner.

However, is lasted 30 some years. Think of how long a new wood core would last if done correctly!!!!!!

Normally, there is quite a bit of torque against the transom with V-8 power. You will not have V-8 power with the little diesel.

Why don't you post photos of the rotten area for us so we can help you determine what to use or to do?

Perhaps if the area is rather small, Sea Cast may work OK.

.

[boatworkfl]

The transom core may only be wet from about just above the outdrive cutout down. Test drill and find out.

[Nikko]

Seacast has it's place - the rebuild of a transom is not one of them. Best bite the bullet and do it properly (epoxy coated plywood, laminated in place).

$2800 sounds pretty pricey - I'm betting you can get a much better price than that.

Good luck!

[Guest]

Dave just called to give me an update on the status of the rot. The rot is mostly confined to the bottom of the transom, although it has made its way to the steering assembly on the starboard side.

The good news is the area is very easy to work in. There is plenty of room and the process is not going to take as long as first anticipated. He revised the estimate to $2100. He is going to replace the entire transom and will not be cutting any corners. Tomorrow, I will be there to take a look at the situation; and he will give me a detailed account of what he will be doing.

I'm very happy with the outcome and will feel much better about cruising in my boat knowing the transom has been repaired properly.

2850Bounty wrote:


First Ed, I hope that he isn't planning to cut out any portion of the fiberglass hull. He needs to remove the wood core material only, and down to the original hull material only.... and then stop.

Ed, we've spoken several times and I know how maticulous you have been to date with selecting the right person to do you install right on down to selecting the correct parts.

Why cut corners now?

He will not be cutting into the hull. From what I understand, he will be removing the skin to expose the rotten wood, removing the wood and replacing it, and laminating and re-glassing. He assured me every section will be properly sealed and in better condition than it was when it left the factory.

With respect to cutting corners... I was not attempting to save money with Seacast. In fact, the cost of the materials alone will exceed the cost of materials in a traditional transom replacement. I was more concerned about how counterintuitive it is to replace rotten wood with wood that will eventually rot. I figured a composite material like Seacast will not come with the disadvantages associated with wood. That's why I suggested it.

I'm still not thrilled about the thought of wood being encapsulated in fiberglass; but the fact that it will be the appropriate type of wood and using an appropriate technique, I have confidence it will last longer than my current transom. I think I can live with that, lol.

[ksanders]

Just an FYI, possibly others can chime in here.

The fiberglass place up here dosn't use wood in transoms anymore.

They use a high density foam like product that is designed to make transoms out of.

[Guest]

ksanders wrote:
Just an FYI, possibly others can chime in here.

The fiberglass place up here dosn't use wood in transoms anymore.

They use a high density foam like product that is designed to make transoms out of.

Kevin, do you have any information regarding what the product is called or who the manufacturer is? I want to thoroughly explore all options before he begins work on it.

[ksanders]

Astral Blue wrote:
Kevin, do you have any information regarding what the product is called or who the manufacturer is? I want to thoroughly explore all options before he begins work on it.

I don't

I was in CAC plastics in Wasilla getting some starboard and saw a sample. I asked what it was for and they said it's for transoms. I asked if they do allot of transoms and was told that they do more than you'd think.

I googled it and came up with several interesting sites.

[Guest]

ksanders wrote:
I don't

I was in CAC plastics in Wasilla getting some starboard and saw a sample. I asked what it was for and they said it's for transoms. I asked if they do allot of transoms and was told that they do more than you'd think.

I googled it and came up with several interesting sites.

Thanks, Kevin. I started looking into it and have been impressed by the structural qualities of high density foam. I came across a company called http://"http://coosacomposites.com/"...osa Composites and have been very impressed by the resiliency of their product. I'm going to talk to Dave tomorrow and see what my options are. Thanks again for pointing this out. Situations like this are what makes BOC such a great resource!

[boatworkfl]

INFO: General purpose resin can allow moisture to pass through, vinyl ester will not, I would use vinyl ester resin.

I do not know your boat, but if you have an outdrive and use a high density foam, you will need to remove the foam between the 2 sides where the outdrive mounts and fill with a solid material.

[ksanders]

Astral Blue wrote:
Thanks, Kevin. I started looking into it and have been impressed by the structural qualities of high density foam. I came across a company called http://"http://coosacomposites.com/"...osa Composites and have been very impressed by the resiliency of their product. I'm going to talk to Dave tomorrow and see what my options are. Thanks again for pointing this out. Situations like this are what makes BOC such a great resource!

I read almost every post, and learn something new here almost every day.

Together we can solve issues that none of us could solve by our selves.

[2850Bounty]

IMO, you're waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay over-thinking this for a 90 hp diesel. The lousy OEM core lasted 30 years behind V-8 power...., and it wasn't done correctly in the first place.

Save yourself the grief of the foam and the special solid infill around the Transom Shield cut-out, and go back together with properly applied core layers of resin-wet matting/plywood/matting/plywood/matting/heavy cloth finish.

You will not own this boat long enough to see the new core material deteriorate.

A router with a straight flute bit (to section the core into manageable pieces), a pneumatic chisel, a good disc sander, various hand tools, and you'll have the old core out in no time.

Use the hull's transom exterior for a rough template for the new core material.

Each layer can be sectioned if need be.... just stagger the joints between layers.

Fit each layer separately and do several dry fits.... re-cutting and shaping as needed.

Cut/shape again... dry fit again... including a dry run of fastener using every existing penetration to pull the first layer into the hull.

Pull back apart and prepare for the glass/resin work!

Prior to the first layer's resin curing process...., place a straight edge backer onto the transom exterior. (you want this flat)

Chink resin wet matting into every void where the new core meets at the edges.

Second core layer will screw to the first piece sandwiching the two together over a second layer of resin-wet matting.

These screws can be left in or pulled... your call.

Finish with third layer of resin-wet matting, finished with heavy resin-wet cloth.

Brush and smooth your work out better than what the B/L boys did..... of which you could do while intoxicated.

Cut the opening for the Volvo Penta transom shield last.

[Guest]

2850Bounty wrote:


Your wood transom core is a structural component. The correct plywood is a great strong product for this, and when installed correctly it creates a box beam affect. I can guarantee you that yours was assembled incorrectly from the beginning at Bayliner.

However, is lasted 30 some years. Think of how long a new wood core would last if done correctly!!!!!!

Being new to boating and Bayliners, I have no idea what you mean in reference to Bayliner's incorrect assembly, and a proper box beam assembly. Do you have any photos, drawings, links that would illustrate what you're describing?

Thanks,

-Jorden