Hino engines submerged on holed, now grounded 3818 in Hudson River.

[Limulus]

I never imagined I would be writing this. Anchored in 8 feet of water on the Hudson. A strong North wind gave steep white caps a chance to pile up rolling straight down the river.I decided the waves were too big for me to row back out for the night. During the night, the anchor platform tore off the bow, and took the anchor, chain and line.

Boat holed and aground since 2AM Wednesday morning. Plan is barge with a crane will take her to a yard tomorrow. 2 holes, at the chines can be patched. Many wires are soaked but the electrical panels are dry. Water is up to the first step going from galley to salon. Portable generator dry,along with my cordless tools, 1 new 8D swamped, 1 dry. Engine room flooded competely to the underside of the cockpit hatches.

Where do I stand? I am so filled with dread and hope. I am reaching out to the folks here who truly know these engines. They had been running so well this spring. 3200 wot and able to get on plane... (around 16-17 kn by gps) Never broke 175 degrees after cleaning the leftover Chesapeake growth from the raw water intakes

Are the engines likely to be restorable by a mechanic doing the work that is beyond me, within a budget of mid four figures plus, or is she already beyond my means to rescue?
Insurance will cover recovery and bringing her to the yard. All costs from that point on are on me.
Thank you.

[kwb]

By insurance - it will be totaled. Time is of the essence and this time of year getting a spot on a calendar to do work from someone good... good luck.
If you poked holes in the hull you damaged props, struts, rudders in all likelihood.

In fresh water if you are a DIY type and take the insurance settlement (hulk of a totaled boat like this is a liability so you can retain it for probably very little off of the policy limits). You may have some lingering issues but probably not. Salt is a lot worse of a situation. First step in the galley isn't even over top of fuel tanks - nothing should be in the engines. If they did flood through the exhaust, get them running ASAP and change oil a few times.

[Jim_Gandee]

Call your insurance co and start looking for a new boat.

[Limulus]

There is zero insurance forthcoming. I only had liability coverage because when I got her in November, she was in no shape to pass even a cursory inspection and I was able to get the liability coverage needed for the marina without an inspection.
I just finished replacing the sanitation system, and had wanted to finish installing the new potable water system and get the bottom maintenance done (2 weeks ago, with good report re corrosion and ablative paint) and got new zincs installed). So that's that. Regardless, I don't want a different boat, If I can fix her for the same budget. I have time, and reasonable DIY


At high tide.(2 1/2 foot tidal range), the engine room is flooded up to the bottom of the cockpit hatches. I'm not sure what the of level of the risers is, in that regard. The Hudson is like a millpond today.
At low tide yesterday morning, the hull was almost drained, with help from now shorted bilge pumps.

Low tide is at 10. I can move my remaining new battery to the engine room door and run 2 ga. cables, (disconnect the swamped batteries), to try starting the engines. If I can rig it, should I try starting the engines, or should I do an oil change before I do anything? Don't the alternators need to be dried, etc?

The barge should arrive about 2 o'clock, to set up and lift her out. The rudders and props are 1/2 submerged in mud but did not look obviously twisted out of place. The bottom of the river there is mostly mud with some random bulkhead stone that has fallen down The underside of the hull is intact and the tunnels reduced the exposure of the props and rudders. Whether it was enough to keep them safe, I don't know.

[smitty477]

I would guess it is much less expensive to part out that boat and seek another than to fix her up as is.
Where are you having the boat hauled to for work - our only experience with glass work on the Hudson was at "Watercoler marine" at RYB in Kingston (Rich Terpening).

With that said..
I had been on touch with 3 Hino powered boats that went down and had the engines rebuilt - all of them nay years ago. One was in Subic Bay and the other two were on the Hudson river.
On all of them the boat was down for over a day and engines came out and they were completely torn down and rebuilt. Once they fill with water it is problematic to try and get them pickled correctly in place.

If you are well north of 'worlds end' the water will be fresh which helps a bit but being swamped that long does initiate corrosion almost immediately. The fuel tanks and fuel system will also need a lot of attention.

[Limulus]

No fuel leakage. It's Piermont. If the water hits the top of the hatches, are the engines filled? I don't remember wher the bottom of the risers are are they forward, and maybe higher, or is it over?

She will be getting hauled out by crane on a barge by M&M (Randy King) He has a very good rep around here.

[smitty477]

Piermont is well within the salt water zone well south of worlds end -- the water can get in a number of places like the air intake and CC breather system.
Please consider where you will place this on land as that will affect your ability to choose solutions later on.

[Limulus]

The location and fiberglass damage.

[Bacon]

I believe we have someone on this forum who returned a flooded boat to working condition who might weigh in. I have no experience with this situation so I can't agree or disagree with others. Saltwater will start a corrosion process that will not stop when water is drained. The salts must be neutralized. I can't tell you how to do that, there are products like salt away that may be your friend. One caution on starting the engines straight away, you should hand crank them over first if you can make sure there won't be a hydro lock condition. My additional concerns would be water intrusion into bulk heads if anything fastened to them is not well sealed. Man, this is such as sad, sad thing for you to go through. Breaks my heart. I can only imagine your hopes for the boat and the restoration you were already working on. Before you do anything contact the insurance company to determine your options. I know you have liability only, hopefully that will cover the costs to abandon the boat if that is what you choose to do so you can have that as a future possibility should you decide to try to recover the boat and attempt to repair with the possibility of it ending up being too much time and money and then abandoning her.

[smitty477]

I believe we have someone on this forum who returned a flooded boat to working condition who might weigh in. I have no experience with this situation so I can't agree or disagree with others. Saltwater will start a corrosion process that will not stop when water is drained. The salts must be neutralized. I can't tell you how to do that, there are products like salt away that may be your friend. One caution on starting the engines straight away, you should hand crank them over first if you can make sure there won't be a hydro lock condition. My additional concerns would be water intrusion into bulk heads if anything fastened to them is not well sealed. Man, this is such as sad, sad thing for you to go through. Breaks my heart. I can only imagine your hopes for the boat and the restoration you were already working on. Before you do anything contact the insurance company to determine your options. I know you have liability only, hopefully that will cover the costs to abandon the boat if that is what you choose to do so you can have that as a future possibility should you decide to try to recover the boat and attempt to repair with the possibility of it ending up being too much time and money and then abandoning her.

I have helped physically restore inboard flooded boat engines maybe 25 years back - and I have personally restored 'dropped' outboards of 5hp and 40hp about a dozen or so years back.
The amount of work and costs of parts is so much more than most anyone would imagine - and they have both gone up in price.

Those facts add up to why the parts of this boat ...when added to the costs of repair, are likely much higher than a 'newer' boat in good shape.

[SteveK]

Engine room flooded completely to the underside of the cockpit hatches.

Engines ingested water?
Sorry for your troubles, only you can decide if months on the hard and a lot of cash infusion is warranted.

[Limulus]

4:00 I'm on the boat. Looks like the bottom of the risers were close to 2" above the highest engine room water mark, which occurred after the wind and waves had died a fair amount. The air filter was not soaked, but there was some water in it. removing it, there was a small amount of moisture pattern like a fine mist inside the intake pipe.

Would removing that first section (that the atr intake is bolted onto? If there's water present vs maybe if there is no water, maybe further checks for water ingress tomorrow while they're setting up? Is it actually possible the entire engines don't need rebuilding? Or am I clutching at straws?Looking at the engines sitting in over a foot of water, I figured they were done.




Barge, crane coming up from a job in Manhattan around 5:30. I'm going to discuss "storage" wjth the yard owner. (Practically every yard around here has a few boats they would give away simply for settling the storage bill.)* Tomorrow at low tide will place belts, and in the afternoon lift her off.

Here they come...

[[email protected]]

Engines - get to a safe place, extract the engine oil - one look will tell you if water got inside the engine crank case.
- alternators and starters need to come off and go to starter shop

Before trying to rotate, pull all the injectors - then you can crank using socket on flywheel. That will tell you if water got into cylinders.
- need to check fuel tanks for water

personally, I’d change oil, get a starter from somewhere, figure out how to feed the water intake, and fire the beasts up - watching Racors for water - and if possible, get the engines up to temperature, just to dry them out, then change oil again.
I’ve had salt water get into the cylinders before, done the above and had the engine run for years after…without even smoking. If you’re handy, it’s worth a couple oil changes.

[smitty477]

If the engines did not ingest water the, value of the parts will be certainly higher. When you have the boat in a safe place I would just pump the oil out of the engines and see what I get out. It will still be a lot of work removing all of the salt water and completely coating the engines with a suitable corrosion protection. Every wire, component, fastener etc will be subject to immediate attack - starters, alternators, pumps, etc all need to come off and be rebuild.

The big picture is a different view.....
Suggest you make a really complete list of what the boat needs and a good estimate of howe much that might cost and add that up.
- looks like a number of shafts, props, rudders, struts, glands, will need replacement or refitting (10's of thousands?)
- the glass work will be more extensive that it may look, structural work and larger areas will need a lot of work (10's or thousands/)
- all other machinery that may need rebuild or replace, HVAC, water heater, wiring, plumbing,, etc (10's of thousands maybe)
These lists even without considering the genset or mains will be important to have a good assessment - always more than you would initially guess.

Then the overall plan is whether the boat for parts + extra funds buys a better boat now or does the boat now plus all the repairs equal a better plan.
FWIW - I would estimate at least 2 years for a refit similar to this if you move in that direction. Could also be a lot longer that that dependent upon your specific plans

[Jim_Gandee]

I’m terribly sorry to see this. One thing to know is that all wiring, connectors and switches that were submerged in salt water should be replaced. The corrosion will wick up the wires inside of the insulation and you’ll be chasing electrical gremlins for years!

[MacPhid]

Limulus, sorry to hear about this incident. I would say that at this point you have nothing to lose in trying to rehabilitate the engines. If the intake or exhaust were not submerged then you've got a good chance to get them started. I agree with others, pump the oil out to see if water got into the engines, then remove the injectors and roll over by hand to expel any moisture in cylinders. If starters were submerged, remove, flush, dry and test or send to rebuild. Put some oil down each cylinder with the injectors out and roll them over by hand. If everything is free and smooth, check the racors for water and try rolling the engines over on the starter holding the stop button. If good oil pressure builds, see if they fire off.

As you noted, the hull can be repaired, fuel tanks should be fine, the only way water can get into them is through the vent lines, and that is unlikely, otherwise they are sealed. Until you know the engines are running I don't see worrying about the rest of the boat systems short of a flush with fresh water. Don't forget to flush the transmission fluids!

Good luck,

James