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    Starter motor won't turn on

    1997 Ciera 2655 Merc 5.7L Alpha1 Gen2…Boat sat for over 10 years

    Ok, so I can turn engine by hand (Marvel Mystery Oil in cylinders, soak for days, plugs removed, then attached tool to balancer and with ½ in breaker bar engine now turns).
    I replaced the starter “relay”… the starter still didn’t crank when I turned ignition key.

    I attached a remote starter button (one lead to positive post on battery, the other lead to the small post of the starter solenoid (a yellow and red wire was attached there)….pressed the button and nothing. I verified with multimeter that the remote starter lead at the solenoid had 12+ volts.

    My research implies the starter is bad and should be replaced/rebuilt based on the above (I don’t want to mis-diagnose so I’m posting the question. Based on the test setup do you believe the starter is bad or do I have to keep digging?).

    Did I miss something? Was the remote starter properly attached? My question is: can a starter go bad from sitting for so long, or is it more likely to have been damaged when I attempted to start a seized engine?

    No prob if the starter has to be replaced, I want to make sure before proceeding.

    Thanks,
    Don
    Current: 1997 Bayliner Ciera 2655 Merc 5.7 A1G2
    Rescued from attempted theft
    Past: 1985 Bayliner Capri 2150 OMC 230

    #2
    Remote start? Is this something you connected or are you referring to the engine breaker in the harness? If the later this is a breaker that provides the engine and helm power. Next to it should be the slave solenoid, try jumping across its two big terminals.
    1997 Maxum 2400 SCR 5.7LX Bravo II

    Mike

    Comment


    • builderdude
      builderdude commented
      Editing a comment
      Remote starter button me thinks

    #3
    A starter can be damaged by an attempted start to a seized engine, it generally fractures the nose cone of the starter and potentially causes the armature to bind up within the motor. The small post with yellow/red wire is in fact the trigger. I’d suggest removing the starter for a visual inspection and or a bench test.
    Click image for larger version

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    Dave
    Edmonds, WA
    "THE FIX" '93 2556
    Carbureted 383 Vortec-Bravo II
    The Rebuild Of My 2556 https://www.baylinerownersclub.org/f...76?view=thread
    My Misc. Projects
    https://www.baylinerownersclub.org/f...56-gctid789773

    Comment


      #4
      Originally posted by Nauti_Mike View Post
      Remote start? Is this something you connected or are you referring to the engine breaker in the harness? If the later this is a breaker that provides the engine and helm power. Next to it should be the slave solenoid, try jumping across its two big terminals.
      It's a remote stater button as BuilderDude surmised.
      Current: 1997 Bayliner Ciera 2655 Merc 5.7 A1G2
      Rescued from attempted theft
      Past: 1985 Bayliner Capri 2150 OMC 230

      Comment


        #5
        Originally posted by builderdude View Post
        A starter can be damaged by an attempted start to a seized engine, it generally fractures the nose cone of the starter and potentially causes the armature to bind up within the motor. The small post with yellow/red wire is in fact the trigger. I’d suggest removing the starter for a visual inspection and or a bench test.
        Click image for larger version

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        After all the work I'd completed so far to bring the boat back to life, I was hoping and praying that it would at least crank. After I installed the new set of manifolds/extensions/elbows I attempted the start...I should have checked to determine if the engine was seized. I did not. At this point I only want to understand what caused the starter motor to die if it is indeed dead.

        I'll pull it off and perform the bench test as suggested to be 100%, but I think I'd feel better placing my order for a new starter motor to replace this 25 year old one.
        Current: 1997 Bayliner Ciera 2655 Merc 5.7 A1G2
        Rescued from attempted theft
        Past: 1985 Bayliner Capri 2150 OMC 230

        Comment


          #6
          BTW: when I first attempted to start the engine all I got was the dreaded loud single "click". Keeping true to my tendency to mis-diagnose, I figured the reason for it not cranking was a bad "relay". The 25 year old relay has been replaced...it might actually be ok but it's still 25 years old.
          .
          Current: 1997 Bayliner Ciera 2655 Merc 5.7 A1G2
          Rescued from attempted theft
          Past: 1985 Bayliner Capri 2150 OMC 230

          Comment


            #7
            I busted my starter attempting to crank through a hydro lock so shit happens🤪
            Mercruiser will actually use what we call a slave solenoid. Is this what you replaced?
            Click image for larger version  Name:	12A64AAB-DECF-479D-B140-692D3B0FCA91.jpg Views:	0 Size:	34.1 KB ID:	652620
            Dave
            Edmonds, WA
            "THE FIX" '93 2556
            Carbureted 383 Vortec-Bravo II
            The Rebuild Of My 2556 https://www.baylinerownersclub.org/f...76?view=thread
            My Misc. Projects
            https://www.baylinerownersclub.org/f...56-gctid789773

            Comment


              #8
              Thanks Dave, yes, I've been attempting to use the correct terminology to eliminate confusion. "Slave solenoid", "Starter relay", "Solenoid" all being used randomly.

              Yes, your picture shows what I replaced. It clicked loudly once when I attempted to start the engine. That's the part I replaced, and then worked to free the engine. After it was replaced, I no longer got the single click...instead I got "silence", nothing. so I figured the "relay" was not the problem and attempted the remote starter test to bypass all intermediate components.

              The component attached to the starter is the actual true "solenoid" correct? I'll pull the starter off tomorrow and post the results of the bench test.
              Current: 1997 Bayliner Ciera 2655 Merc 5.7 A1G2
              Rescued from attempted theft
              Past: 1985 Bayliner Capri 2150 OMC 230

              Comment


                #9
                Originally posted by MrBrownAndSon View Post
                The component attached to the starter is the actual true "solenoid" correct? I'll pull the starter off tomorrow and post the results of the bench test.
                Yep, that’d be the starter solenoid.
                Dave
                Edmonds, WA
                "THE FIX" '93 2556
                Carbureted 383 Vortec-Bravo II
                The Rebuild Of My 2556 https://www.baylinerownersclub.org/f...76?view=thread
                My Misc. Projects
                https://www.baylinerownersclub.org/f...56-gctid789773

                Comment


                  #10
                  Also: with a potential inoperative starter motor you should still hear a click from the slave. Double check your wire connections at the slave also including battery cable connections both positive and negative at both ends are clean and solid.
                  Dave
                  Edmonds, WA
                  "THE FIX" '93 2556
                  Carbureted 383 Vortec-Bravo II
                  The Rebuild Of My 2556 https://www.baylinerownersclub.org/f...76?view=thread
                  My Misc. Projects
                  https://www.baylinerownersclub.org/f...56-gctid789773

                  Comment


                    #11
                    ...................
                    Originally posted by MrBrownAndSon View Post
                    Thanks Dave, yes, I've been attempting to use the correct terminology to eliminate confusion.
                    Don, my hat is off to you. Quite often the correct terminology is not used.
                    And you are correct..... when the correct terminology is used, it does improve communication and it certainly helps to eliminate confusion.


                    "Slave solenoid", "Starter relay", "Solenoid" all being used randomly.
                    With anything other than the old Bendix drive starter motors, the solenoid unit on the starter motor serves a dual function:
                    It is a "contactor" as it simultaneously serves as a mechanical device that kicks the pinion gear out and into the flywheel's ring gear.
                    Technically speaking.... the mechanical kick out function precedes the contact function.

                    Think of the "slave solenoid" as a "relay" for the S circuit (from the helm, through the harness and back to the actual starter motor).

                    Yes, your picture shows what I replaced. It clicked loudly once when I attempted to start the engine.
                    The "clicking" sound indicates that the solenoid's magnetically operated plunger is working.
                    What is apparently NOT working, would be the contacting portion of the solenoid.
                    Or..... while sitting for over ten years, some corrosion has occurred between the commutator and the brushes, causing loss of continuity.
                    In other words, the solenoid may be contacting correctly, but the current is not reaching the commutator.

                    Occasionally, a few gentle taps on the starter motor housing get's things going again.


                    That's the part I replaced, and then worked to free the engine. After it was replaced, I no longer got the single click...instead I got "silence", nothing. so I figured the "relay" was not the problem and attempted the remote starter test to bypass all intermediate components.

                    The component attached to the starter is the actual true "solenoid" correct?
                    Correct!
                    Several companies began to include the slave solenoids in an attempt to reduce line loss (resistance) in the S circuit.
                    Why the heavy Amp solenoid was used ..... I'm not sure. It could just as easily have been a smaller relay switch.


                    I'll pull the starter off tomorrow and post the results of the bench test.
                    Try to NOT allow the armature to spin freely at high RPM.

                    Don, your 1997 engine should be equipped with a HTGR/PMGR starter motor.
                    If you replace the starter motor, be sure to use a similar starter motor, and be sure to get the correct bolt lengths.

                    Here is a HTGR/PMGR unit.
                    Armature vs pinion gear spins approx 3:1



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                    Click image for larger version  Name:	image.png Views:	1 Size:	235.8 KB ID:	652657







                    Here is an older Non-Gear Reduction starter motor.
                    Armature vs pinion gear spins 1:1
                    Heavy amp draw, and will not spin the flywheel nearly as fast.


                    Click image for larger version  Name:	image.png Views:	0 Size:	244.3 KB ID:	652655
                    Rick E. (aka RicardoMarine) Gresham, Oregon
                    2850 Bounty Sedan Flybridge model
                    Twin 280 HP 5.7's w/ Closed Cooling
                    Volvo Penta DuoProp Drives
                    Kohler 4 CZ Gen Set

                    Please, no PMs. Ask your questions on forum.

                    Comment


                      #12
                      Thanks for the additional clarification, Guys.

                      I pulled the starter motor and attempted a bench test. Nothing happened, and I verified that the setup was correct (Cleaned all posts, then made connections from Battery pos to big post on starter, from Battery neg to starter case, verified 12+ volts present at starter, then Jump from big post to small “S” post on starter).

                      To be 1000% absolutely positive, with no questions, I took the starter to a Starter/Alternator shop. They verified immediately that the starter was no good.

                      2850Bounty: that’s a very pretty starter that looks just like mine. I believe the oem part number is:
                      50-863007A1

                      That’s what I’ll use to order the replacement. It still would be nice to know why it died but I can live with the fact that the shop verified it’s condition (for free btw) and didn’t attempt to sell me anything).

                      Thanks for the explanations, it helps, however, I’m not comfortable with having to give the starter motor a few whacks to get it to respond. If it needs to be whacked, then it needs to be replaced, lol.

                      I’ll send a final reply to the thread once I receive and install the new part.
                      Attached Files
                      Current: 1997 Bayliner Ciera 2655 Merc 5.7 A1G2
                      Rescued from attempted theft
                      Past: 1985 Bayliner Capri 2150 OMC 230

                      Comment


                        #13
                        Originally posted by builderdude View Post
                        A starter can be damaged by an attempted start to a seized engine, it generally fractures the nose cone of the starter and potentially causes the armature to bind up within the motor. The small post with yellow/red wire is in fact the trigger. I’d suggest removing the starter for a visual inspection and or a bench test.
                        Click image for larger version

Name:	81BF10D0-0FF3-4DD0-8F0C-096552195888.jpg
Views:	46
Size:	63.9 KB
ID:	652609
                        Also, BuilderDude, is it possible that my starter is an automotive one? It has three posts as opposed to 4. I do not have an electric fuel pump, and all of the new replacement motors have 4 posts as depicted in your reply.

                        Would I be able to leave that fuel pump post disconnected?

                        Thanks, hopefully this is last question before I receive and install the replacement.

                        Don
                        Attached Files
                        Current: 1997 Bayliner Ciera 2655 Merc 5.7 A1G2
                        Rescued from attempted theft
                        Past: 1985 Bayliner Capri 2150 OMC 230

                        Comment


                          #14
                          The I terminal can be left alone, it’s used as a ignition bypass circuit on some systems and fuel pump bypass circuit on others.
                          Dave
                          Edmonds, WA
                          "THE FIX" '93 2556
                          Carbureted 383 Vortec-Bravo II
                          The Rebuild Of My 2556 https://www.baylinerownersclub.org/f...76?view=thread
                          My Misc. Projects
                          https://www.baylinerownersclub.org/f...56-gctid789773

                          Comment


                            #15
                            Thanks, I thought so but wanted to be sure. The starter replacement should be here early next week, I'll post an update once it's installed.
                            Current: 1997 Bayliner Ciera 2655 Merc 5.7 A1G2
                            Rescued from attempted theft
                            Past: 1985 Bayliner Capri 2150 OMC 230

                            Comment

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