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Bayliner 38 with worn out Mitsubishis

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    Bayliner 38 with worn out Mitsubishis

    I have a 1983 Bayliner Explorer with near worn out Mitsubishi CM655NAs. Although they still run well, they use oil and smoke at full throttle. Otherwise, the boat is excellent with all the whistles and bells you would expect. Soooo, I am trying to decide what to do. Obvious choices are:

    1. Try to sell the boat to someone who will take the engines. We have had two $30,000 offers fall through after the mechanical survey. I am guessing I could get $15,000 or $20,000 for it at most.

    2. Replace the engines with some mid time used Mitsubishi engines if I could find them and verify their condition. This would probably be the least expensive.

    3. Remove the engines and have them overhauled. I don't think they can be overhauled in place. There might be risks in finding parts but rebuilt kits are available (they are sleeved engines).

    4. Repower with non-Mitsubishi new or used engines. This would replace overhaul costs with refit costs and have less risk.

    I would like to heard from people who have faced this decision describe what they have done, especially if you have repowered with other brand engines. I have seen the two part You Tube video showing the Yanmar repower. I most certainly don't have that kind of money.

    Thanks in advance for any advice you can give,

    Mike Mulcahy
    Anacortes/Tucson

    #2
    Sell and buy another one or run it to failure.
    1999 Sandpiper Pilothouse - Current
    1989 3888 - 2011-2019, 1985 Contessa - 2005-2011, 1986 21' Trophy 1998-2005
    Nobody gets out alive.

    Comment


      #3
      Since it’s a sleeved engine it should be able to be done in place, mostly. I say mostly because the engine may need to move up on the mounts, but that’s all. It may be the oil is leaking due to valve seals which is very easy and the only thing that comes apart on on top of the head with only the valve cover removed. It also could be that when it is smoking at wot that it’s because of the injectors needing a touch up.
      P/C Pete
      Edmonds Yacht Club (Commodore 1993)
      1988 3818 "GLAUBEN”
      Hino EH700 175 Onan MDKD Genset
      1980 Encounter Sunbridge "Misty Blue" (Sold)
      MMSI 367770440
      1972 Chevrolet Nova Frame off Resto-mod in the garage
      Boating on the Salish Sea since 1948

      Comment


        #4
        do you WANT to sell the boat, or keep it if the engines were in better condition?.... what would be the appraised value of the boat with rebuilt engines?.... it may sell quicker with fresh engines, but as for the actual value to YOU, you may not recoup the rebuild costs on the sale if the rest of the boat is suffering, but then, if you want to continue ownership and use the boat, it may be a lot more affordable to rebuild what you already have, than to sell and buy another one with better engines.. but I DO agree there is a lot of value in a "turn-key" boat, as if there ever was such a thing ;-)

        if you want to keep the boat and are happy with its performance, rebuilding will be the best option, as waiting til they fail will likely mean being replaced by NEW engines, or used engines of unknown condition.... and either way it will be expensive..

        rebuilding what you have will be the quickest and the cheapest way to go, UNLESS you have some affordable identical take-outs from another boat setting and ready to drop in when yours are removed.... to refit a different style engine in place of what you have will cost about the same as replacing what you have with new identical engines... because the labor in doing a refit will eat your budget very quickly.


        NU LIBERTE'
        Salem, OR

        1989 Bayliner 2556 Convertible
        5.7 OMC Cobra - 15.5x11 prop
        N2K equipped throughout..
        2014 Ram 3500 crew cab, 6.7 Cummins
        2007 M-3705 SLC weekend warrior, 5th wheel
        '04 Polaris Sportsman 700 -- '05 Polaris Sportsman 500 HO
        Heavy Equipment Repair and Specialty Welding

        Comment


          #5
          Huge part of the math here is how much you doing and how much you are paying a mechanic $100/hr+.

          it won't take long to be able to sell cheap and buy a later model version for the same or less money. 38XX are getting very cheap, ones with Mitsubishi are the oldest and least desirable. Not saying that to be harsh but just a reality check.

          Even a takeout swap will be a minimum bill of $5000 in labor and lifting fees. Never mind the cost of the takeout engines and all the other might as well costs that will come up.
          1999 Sandpiper Pilothouse - Current
          1989 3888 - 2011-2019, 1985 Contessa - 2005-2011, 1986 21' Trophy 1998-2005
          Nobody gets out alive.

          Comment


            #6
            If you have the boat repowered with different engines plan on it costing 3x the price of one engine. That's pretty standard for diesel repowers.
            1999 3788, Cummins 270 "Freedom"
            2013 Boston Whaler 130 SS
            Anacortes, WA

            Comment


              #7
              I installed a pair of 300 hp Perkins in a 3870.
              The installation was not hard to do.
              I cut the Stb. door wider and used 3 cable pullers to snake it in.
              Perkins diesels are manf. in the USA.
              A 4 cyl version is available.
              Very low maintenance engines.
              Selling and buying a newer boat would be a better option.
              Pat says: DO-IT-RIGHT THE FIRST TIME!

              Bayliner 3870 "ALASKA33)
              Twin 350 GM power
              Located in Seward, AK
              Retired marine surveyor

              Comment


                #8
                To recoup the cost of repowering that boat you’d have to keep it another 25years and use it everyday. The economics wouldn’t make sense to me but YMMV. I’d sell that boat for whatever she’d bring and move up or on. That boat may be a good value to someone looking to live on a boat, not planning to have it leave the dock much or often.
                Jim Gandee
                1989 3888
                Hino 175's
                Fire Escape
                [email protected]

                Comment


                  #9
                  Repowering the boat is going to cost in the range of $75K

                  As others have posted that’s a lot of money to throw at that particular model and vinbtage of boat unless there is some non financial value attached to the boat.

                  KEVIN SANDERS
                  4788 LISAS WAY - SEWARD ALASKA
                  where are we right now​​​​​​???​

                  https://share.findmespot.com/shared/...j23OquWOj2N3Xe

                  Comment


                    #10
                    I’m having a hard time with the piston side of things being worn enough to be the problem. Valve train or high pressure pump make more sense to me unless there’s some history that could compromise the cylinders. What’s the history of the boat? How many actual hours are on the engines? Hour meters are cheap and could have been replaced. Was there a bunch of deferred maintenance?
                    That the heavy smoke happens at wot is a huge clue that it may not be as serious as you think. What color is the wot smoke? How much oil is being burned?
                    P/C Pete
                    Edmonds Yacht Club (Commodore 1993)
                    1988 3818 "GLAUBEN”
                    Hino EH700 175 Onan MDKD Genset
                    1980 Encounter Sunbridge "Misty Blue" (Sold)
                    MMSI 367770440
                    1972 Chevrolet Nova Frame off Resto-mod in the garage
                    Boating on the Salish Sea since 1948

                    Comment


                      #11
                      Originally posted by Pcpete View Post
                      I’m having a hard time with the piston side of things being worn enough to be the problem. Valve train or high pressure pump make more sense to me unless there’s some history that could compromise the cylinders. What’s the history of the boat? How many actual hours are on the engines? Hour meters are cheap and could have been replaced. Was there a bunch of deferred maintenance?
                      That the heavy smoke happens at wot is a huge clue that it may not be as serious as you think. What color is the wot smoke? How much oil is being burned?
                      I agree....
                      sometimes an old smoking diesel engine can be cleared up by adding a rich amount of injector cleaner. this is especially true if the engine doesnt get run hard enough for long enough after being started many times, such as owners who go down to the boat on weekends and fire up the engine just to hear it run and circulate the oil...

                      usually, a running engine that has been maintained properly can be freshened with new rings and lower bearings, and last many more years... maybe an injector job and fuel pump tune up, which may not even be needed if the fuel system has been working as it should for the past many years....

                      in an attempt to save many thousands of dollars, I would strongly suggest adding a rich amount of seafoam to the fuel and to the crankcase, then take it out and run it hard for a couple hours.... afterwards, its either still going to need a rebuild, or its going to clean itself up and be fine... until it carbons/gums up again.



                      NU LIBERTE'
                      Salem, OR

                      1989 Bayliner 2556 Convertible
                      5.7 OMC Cobra - 15.5x11 prop
                      N2K equipped throughout..
                      2014 Ram 3500 crew cab, 6.7 Cummins
                      2007 M-3705 SLC weekend warrior, 5th wheel
                      '04 Polaris Sportsman 700 -- '05 Polaris Sportsman 500 HO
                      Heavy Equipment Repair and Specialty Welding

                      Comment


                        #12
                        You might try and have the fuel injectors cleaned and or re-built.
                        Pat says: DO-IT-RIGHT THE FIRST TIME!

                        Bayliner 3870 "ALASKA33)
                        Twin 350 GM power
                        Located in Seward, AK
                        Retired marine surveyor

                        Comment


                          #13
                          Mike,

                          Have you had a professional marine diesel mechanic check the engines out? If not, this may be a first step, before you spend more time and money. The boat appears to be in Anacortes, if so I highly recommend Mark Hanger at Mark's Marine Repair(360-333-3302).

                          Mark can also provide advise/estimates on repairing, rebuilding, or repowering.

                          1999 3788, Cummins 270 "Freedom"
                          2013 Boston Whaler 130 SS
                          Anacortes, WA

                          Comment


                          • Pcpete
                            Pcpete commented
                            Editing a comment
                            Good idea! I can understand why Mike probably feels pretty disheartened about this. I would be too.

                          #14
                          I have been away for a while and just now catching up. THANKS to ALL of you for your thoughtful replies. Let me add a few things to the story:

                          1. The port engine uses 1.5 qts of oil per hour! The stbd about 2.5 to 3 hours per qt. The engines have some oil leaks but not nearly enough to explain this consumption. I did oil analysis on the port engine. It was mostly normal but with very high levels of aluminum and chrome. See uploaded file. This suggests piston and ring wear.

                          2. I have been adding Seafoam to the oil as well as Star Tron fuel additives.

                          3. The injector pumps and injectors were overhauled two years ago at great expense. I was told that the engines would be seeing much more fuel than before overhaul.

                          4. The engines start easily with almost no smoke. There is some white smoke over the stern at 2000 rpm cruise. Black smoke only at WOT which yields about 2350 rpm -- should be 2500 to 2800 with no smoke. Oil pressure is 60 lbs both engines. Both engines have about 2100 hours on the meters.

                          5. The valves have been adjusted and the timing checked.

                          6. I got the boat with 19/18 props. I re-pitched them to 19/15. Two mechanical surveys have said they are still over pitched. I could re-pitch lower to get a WOT with no smoke but the higher RPM might not be the right thing for these old engines although it might help sell the boat.

                          7. I have not found anyone who can do a compression test. Low compression would result in lower power. If the rings were good I would consider doing top overhauls.

                          Sooo, the boat is still for sale at $25000 and we will share a survey from a previous offer which fell through. We lived on the boat for the previous three summers cruising the San Juans and Gulf Islands which has been amazing. But we are not getting any younger and would like to move on. But if I can't sell the boat and could improve the oil consumption, who knows........
                          Attached Files

                          Comment


                            #15
                            Mike, I’d get a compression test done for sure, on both engines. I’d guess that’d be done through the injector holes but I don’t know those engines. Regarding the oil analysis, was that a one time snapshot? If so the speculations by Blackstone are their best guesses. The numbers posted might be perfectly normal for that engine. You’ll want to see a trend. High iron can often be explained by an engine that doesn’t get run much allowing internal oxidation to form on interior parts. I’m not saying you don’t have issues, 1.5 qts/hr is a lot of oil, but oil usage can be caused by many things including turbochargers, if yours are so equipped.
                            Jim Gandee
                            1989 3888
                            Hino 175's
                            Fire Escape
                            [email protected]

                            Comment

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