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    Hull problem....-gctid350927

    Well I know a lot of you guys gonna tell me about bring to the professional....

    But the idea is for me to have fun and do all the work here at home. I really had one of the best things last year doing the capri between me and my Wife....that boat brought us together a lot....

    So we got the 2655 has less stuff to do overall but we have a hole in the haul.....

    so here is my problem







    #2
    HULL = Part of boat

    HAUL = how you move a boat:hammer

    Comment


      #3
      the hole is in the back under the water tank

      I had to game plans....

      First idea

      Clean the mess, take the gel coat around the hole, start with a small piece of fiber glass mesh and resin and go bigger piece on top the smaller piece all work my way up to 10 times the size of the hole....gel coat and paint the out side.... and the same idea inside

      my second idea was to to use that mixed resin and fibers to just fill the hole and them use the mesh and resin out side and the inside a piece of plywood and fiber glass on top.....

      there is any better way to do this repair....?

      Any input is very welcome.....

      TKS

      Comment


        #4
        Ofishal wrote:
        HULL = Part of boat

        HAUL = how you move a boat:hammer
        ups sorry for my miss spelling.... hopefully someone can fix the the tittle for me

        tks menops

        Comment


          #5
          Your first idea is the right way.

          Get rid of all the damaged glass. Grind out the existing glass tapering as you said 10:1 into the bottom of the hole. Place some kind of backing and build the glass and resin up and out with increasing sized patches and vary the type of mesh. Work out the bubbles and excess resin. The strength is in the glass, the resin holds it together.

          Triaxial mesh is tough stuff.

          Epoxy is easier than Polyester resin.
          Jim McNeely
          New Hope a 2004 Bayliner 305 Sunbridge Express Cruiser
          Twin 5.7s with Bravo2 drives
          Brighton, Michigan USA
          MMSI # 367393410

          Comment


            #6
            It would be easier if you can take out the water tank. I would repair with fiberglass and vinylester or epoxy resin. Polyester is not as strong when used for repairs.

            Here's a comment from a recent issue of Passagemaker Magazine:

            WHAT'S RIGHT WITH THIS PICTURE?

            In "What's Wrong With This Picture?" in the Oct. '11 issue, Steve D'Antonio correctly points out one of the more common and egregious flaws in fiberglass repairs: laminating over gelcoat. Steve also accurately describes the broader issue of secondary bonding. I would add that choice of resin for repairs is also a critical matter. Polyester resin is an excellent product for boatbuilding, but a questionable choice for repairs. Vinylester resin has much higher mechanical bonding properties than polyester, and is therefore a more reliable choice for repairs to fully cured fiberglass.

            For most repairs the resin cost will be very low compared to the labor cost, and the result will be a substantially stronger and more reliable bond. Plenty of repairs have been successfully executed using polyester resin, but if you want to maximize your chances of a repair that lasts for many years, follow up the proper surface preparation with vinylester resin. For these reasons, we use vinylester resin exclusively for all fiberglass repairs.

            Steve Zimmerman

            President, Zimmerman Marine

            Comment


              #7
              You will need to remove the water tank so you can an get to the back side of the damage. Grind out the damage from both sides but be conservative. You don't want to make the hole any bigger than it is if you don't have to. Grind it with 16 grit grinding disk on both sides. I would use laminating resin not finishing resin. Isothalic polyester would work well if you using polyester its strong. I would use epoxy on a hull if it were my boat. Its stronger more adhesive and more water resistant.

              Make sure you alternate layers matt then cloth then matt than cloth going beyond the last layer about an inch. You will need to sand between layers if you use epoxy and it sets beyond gel stage so have every thing ready and cut to size before before you start only do one side at a time lay up the entire side in one lay up. I think I would start on the inside. You will want to make sure you duplicate + the thickness of the hull. Definitely not thinner but slightly more when the entire job is done. If too thick you can make a hard spot in the hull if it flexes there land it could pull apartment down the road possibly.

              You will need to back up the hole from the outside if its not too big you could cut a small piece of plastic the just covers the hole then tape it there with several layers of duct tape making it semi stiff. If the hole is large you will need to find some thing stiffer card board or foam. Be sure you put plastic between the back up piece. When the inside is done( beside not to push too hard when repairing as to not dislodge the back up piece) pull the backing off after cured. The plastic should just pull off clean.

              Regrind the out side if you used epoxy or finish resin not removing material but just to smooth and rough up the new bonding surface. Cut all the new pieces for the outside alternating matt (first) then cloth. Make sure your last layer is matt so you hide the cloth bleed through of the pattern. Make sure you overlay each following layer about an inch you may or may not be 10 times the hole.

              On your last layer place a thick piece of celephane over the entire repair and bubble roller it and Smooth it with a bonding spreader and let it cure. If polyester it helps it cure so you don't have to use pva or finish resin. If you use epoxy it greatly reduces the final finishing needed.

              When cured pull off cellophane sand as needed. If it needs alot of fairing use structural repair resin. It has glass fibers in it. If epoxy use thickened epoxy. Fair it out then fill in final pin holes with an water proof finishing type bondo either epoxy or polyester.

              At that point its ready for epoxy blister coat if bottom painting or gel coating.

              This is a simplified version of course and there is more than one way to skin a cat so to speak.
              1989 Avanti 3450 Sunbridge
              twin 454's
              MV Mar-Y-Sol
              1979 Bayliner Conquest 3150 hardtop ocean express.
              Twin chevy 350's inboard
              Ben- Jamin
              spokane Washington

              Comment


                #8
                I would use vinyl ester resin for patch work, if you do not remove the water tank, then grind almost all the way through, be sure you grind around the damaged area well past the cracks in the gel coat. If using vinyl ester or isophalic resin you do not need to add wax between the layers, only add wax to the finish coat of gel coat.

                http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j...X39lsSL4SEYWRQ

                This book is a great help, I first saw it at the public library.

                http://books.google.com/books?id=uNl...=0CF4Q6AEwCDge

                There is a lot of info on this subject on the internet, your frp supply should have some handouts for mixing resin and possibly for the lay-up, be sure you buy a grooved roller to roll the bubbles out of the laminate, the aluminum one is best. If you have a cored hull grind just far enough to produce a clean foam core.
                Pat says: DO-IT-RIGHT THE FIRST TIME!

                Bayliner 3870 "ALASKA33)
                Twin 350 GM power
                Located in Seward, AK
                Retired marine surveyor

                Comment


                  #9
                  Tks soooo much for all the info I can't thank you guys enough

                  Comment


                    #10
                    You not only have the puncture wound to deal with but it appears from the circular cracks surrounding the hole that there is considerably more damage to the fiberglass and gelcoat that must be repaired. I'd also examine any support structures like frames, stringers and bulkheads that are close by.

                    Comment


                      #11
                      You will get varying opinions on what material to use. Isothalic polyester, vinyl ester, and epoxy are all good options. It really come down to what materials are available in your area. They all cost about the same epoxy maybe a little more.

                      How ever I would avoid at all cost using the cheap regular off the shelf generic polyester resin. It is weaker absorbs moisture more and has less adhesion than the other mentioned resins.

                      Epoxy , isothalic polyester, vinyl ester all have their good points and bad points in comparison. Ie... one may be stronger the other might ne more impervious to water one might be easier to work. It many times comes down to preference.

                      Keep in mind though that if you wont be able to lay up the glass on one side all at the same time I wouldn't use epoxy. It will make a lot more work as you will need to sand the surface once the previous layer sets up.
                      1989 Avanti 3450 Sunbridge
                      twin 454's
                      MV Mar-Y-Sol
                      1979 Bayliner Conquest 3150 hardtop ocean express.
                      Twin chevy 350's inboard
                      Ben- Jamin
                      spokane Washington

                      Comment


                        #12
                        first of all tks for all the info....I dont recall ever using epoxy.

                        what is the drying time between first and second coat usually? as fast as resin?

                        tks

                        Comment


                          #13
                          Alexirocz28 wrote:
                          first of all tks for all the info....I dont recall ever using epoxy.

                          what is the drying time between first and second coat usually? as fast as resin?

                          tks
                          It's curing time. Not drying time as Isothalic polyester, vinyl ester, and epoxy is a chemical reaction. The how to use info with the product you are using will tell you the curing time. Pot Life, Open Time and Cure to Solid are the time parmeters.

                          Find out all the info you can on mechanical and chemical bonding. First choice is chemical bonding. In the final cured stage a new layer of resin will not chemically link to it. So the surface must be properly prepared and sanded before recoating to achieve a good mechanical, secondary bond.

                          West System "Fiberglass Boat Repair & Maintenance" 002-550 has some good info. It applies to Isothalic polyester, vinyl ester, and epoxy. It"s the process you need to follow.

                          It's my understanding that you can use epoxy over Isothalic polyester or vinyl ester but not Isothalic polyester or vinyl ester over epoxy.

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