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BAYLINER 2455 CIERA - Radio Shack Interrupter GOT FUEL, GOT SPARK, NO BANG ????

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    BAYLINER 2455 CIERA - Radio Shack Interrupter GOT FUEL, GOT SPARK, NO BANG ????

    Hey Guys, I am at a loss. To keep a very..very long story short. Can someone tell me why I put this in my 2455 7-8 years ago. I believe I did it when I switched the distributor from points to a Mallory electronic... Years down the road I am having an issue (VERY LONG STORY) but needless to say it will crank over, but I can't get it to fire for nothing... and I have checked everything and replaced Plugs, Plug wires, Coil, had the carb rebuilt (twice), Load tested batteries, and still won't crank over... I checked cylinder pressure last year and they were good...... It used to fire up every time like clockwork.....(Before the riser failed and filled the carb and oil pan full of water) I got new risers installed, but now nothing.... Cranks kinda slow, but no turn over at all... Got spark at the plugs...no bang. Take a look at this pic, and let me know if something in this contraption I had to build could possibly be the issue.... How does the kill switch work? Where does it tie in after it leaves the dash switch... Would I get spark if the kill switch was engaged??? If you are interested, take a look at my previous posts if you can still see them from the last 2-3 years....(That is how long she has been down), and yes, I have even disconnected the fuel line and put the hose in a fresh tank of gas...Got fuel, Got spark, no Bang... SEE PICS

    #2
    I'm assuming it's a OMC and the modification is required to work with the ECA module (shift interrupt). Leaving the components exposed allowed for the risk of shorting out to the engine. The kill switch removes power to the ignition so yes if is off or the switch failed open there will be no 12V at the ignition coils + terminal.

    Besides fuel/spark/air the engine requires correct timing and compression to make BANG. Have you inspected or replaced the cap and rotor?
    1997 Maxum 2400 SCR 5.7LX Bravo II

    Mike

    Comment


    • HADESWRAITH
      HADESWRAITH commented
      Editing a comment
      Hey Mike, Yes it was all taped up, I untaped to inspect. I remember now. When I went to electronic I had to install this so the older ESA would work. I see on Amazon I can get a new one for $100 and won't need this jury rigged setup. I may just take it out of the loop....... But, it still wont fix my issue I don't think. Sorry, it is a 5.8L OMC (351W Ford)... The new distributor probably has 10 hours on it maybe. It ran like a sewing machine before everything was removed for the riser replacement.... I have in fact confirmed that the rotor is pointing at #1 spark plug wire when #1 cylinder is at TDC on the compression stroke. (Checked this multiple times with the ole finger over the hole while pressure builds to blow it out)... Also by sticking a screw driver in the hole til it stops at the top.....I have spark...But even if it were off by a little bit, shouldn't I get some sort of "Boom"?

      Here is the updated Shift module that doesn't need the "Radio Shack Fix".... https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0...KIKX0DER&psc=1

      And to clarify, if I am getting spark at the plug, this means the Kill switch is not the issue... correct.

    • Nauti_Mike
      Nauti_Mike commented
      Editing a comment
      Correct

    #3
    I’d check the firing order and timing then on a temporary basis remove and bypass the home made shift assist stuff then give it a try.
    Dave
    Edmonds, WA
    "THE FIX"
    '93 2556 5.7 Bravo II 2.0:1 18 1/4x19 P
    (.030 over-Vortec top end-part closed cooled)
    The rebuild of my 2556 https://www.baylinerownersclub.org/f...76?view=thread
    Misc. projects thread
    https://www.baylinerownersclub.org/f...56-gctid789773

    Comment


      #4
      If it ran fine before the riser replacement then what all was disturbed in performing the job as something done is the issue
      1997 Maxum 2400 SCR 5.7LX Bravo II

      Mike

      Comment


        #5
        Here are the wires... Where did these grey wires that are tied together go originally?? And is it OK for me to tie in a water hose and run water through the cooling system WITHOUT the engine running... I want to test the risers..

        Comment


        • Nauti_Mike
          Nauti_Mike commented
          Editing a comment
          Don’t know, would need to find the OMC wiring diagram. On Mercruiser the gray wire is the tach sense that comes off the coil negative terminal.

        • HADESWRAITH
          HADESWRAITH commented
          Editing a comment
          Besides the plug wires, the Coil was the only Electrical wires that were touched.... I believe.......will ponder it.

        #6
        How slow does it crank you said slow.

        You tried boosting the battery ?

        I'll wait for reply.

        Buncha tricks lets do them one at a time.
        Be good, be happy, for tomorrow is promised to no man !

        1994 2452, 5.0l, Alpha gen. 2 drive. Sold ! Sold ! Sold !

        '86 / 19' Citation cuddy, Merc. 3.0L / 140 hp 86' , stringer drive. Sold ! Sold ! Sold !

        Manalapan N.J

        Comment


        • HADESWRAITH
          HADESWRAITH commented
          Editing a comment
          I actually crossed the battery bridge. Thought maybe both batteries were bad.. they only 3 years old... I put them on a load tester and they both tested above their rated CCA. Batteries are good.

        #7

        No pushing water through the exhaust stuff without the engine running.
        Hot wire to the coil (taking the shift assist stuff out of the equation) to test the starting issue.
        Dave
        Edmonds, WA
        "THE FIX"
        '93 2556 5.7 Bravo II 2.0:1 18 1/4x19 P
        (.030 over-Vortec top end-part closed cooled)
        The rebuild of my 2556 https://www.baylinerownersclub.org/f...76?view=thread
        Misc. projects thread
        https://www.baylinerownersclub.org/f...56-gctid789773

        Comment


          #8
          ............ Can someone tell me why I put this in my 2455 7-8 years ago. I believe I did it when I switched the distributor from points to a Mallory electronic...
          Yes, the OMC ESA does not like electronic triggering. The diodes are a fix for this.

          Years down the road I am having an issue (VERY LONG STORY) but needless to say it will crank over, but I can't get it to fire for nothing... and I have checked everything and replaced Plugs, Plug wires, Coil, had the carb rebuilt (twice), Load tested batteries, and still won't crank over... I checked cylinder pressure last year and they were good...... It used to fire up every time like clockwork.....(Before the riser failed and filled the carb and oil pan full of water) I got new risers installed, but now nothing.... Cranks kinda slow, but no turn over at all...
          Please clarify..... it can't be both! It either turns over and won't fire.... or it won't turn over at all!

          Got spark at the plugs...no bang.
          What color spark are you seeing..... yellow, blue, whit-ish blue, etc?
          Yellow indicates weak spark..... white indicates good hot spark.


          Take a look at this pic, and let me know if something in this contraption I had to build could possibly be the issue....
          See below.

          How does the kill switch work?
          .... when open (clip removed), it interrupts current to the ignition system. Engine will not fire up.

          Where does it tie in after it leaves the dash switch...
          .... it would connect somewhere within the ignition circuit between the helm and the engine.

          Would I get spark if the kill switch was engaged???
          ... the kill switch will be closed with the clip is installed. It will interrupt the circuit when the clip is removed.

          If you are interested, take a look at my previous posts if you can still see them from the last 2-3 years....(That is how long she has been down), and yes, I have even disconnected the fuel line and put the hose in a fresh tank of gas...Got fuel, Got spark, no Bang... SEE PICS

          Which model Mallory ignition distributor?
          Do you have the correct ignition coil for the Mallory?
          What color spark are you seeing..... yellow, blue, whit-ish blue, etc?
          Have you determined that your BASE advance is set correctly?

          Take the diodes out of the loop temporarily.
          Assuming that you are on the hard (using garden hose and water muffs), try temporarily disconnecting the ESA, and remove your propeller during this!



          Most all engines will fire up when we have:

          Proper valve operation.
          Good cylinder pressures.
          Proper fuel air delivery.
          Good ignition source and when timed correctly.
          Starter motor that turns the crank at a decent cranking RPM.



          Hey Mike, Yes it was all taped up, I untaped to inspect. I remember now. When I went to electronic I had to install this so the older ESA would work. I see on Amazon I can get a new one for $100 and won't need this jury rigged setup. I may just take it out of the loop....... But, it still wont fix my issue I don't think.
          As part of your P of E (process of elimination), take this out of the loop during your testing.
          You will be running on the garden hose and water muffs, so be sure to remove the propeller for safety reasons.
          You also will NOT be shifting into or out of gear during this testing........ but again, remove the propeller.



          Sorry, it is a 5.8L OMC (351W Ford)... The new distributor probably has 10 hours on it maybe. It ran like a sewing machine before everything was removed for the riser replacement....
          Again, which Mallory model is this?
          Is it a YLM or a YLU?


          I have in fact confirmed that the rotor is pointing at #1 spark plug wire when #1 cylinder is at TDC on the compression stroke. (Checked this multiple times with the ole finger over the hole while pressure builds to blow it out)... Also by sticking a screw driver in the hole til it stops at the top.....
          Not a good idea. One boo boo, and you may damage a piston deck!


          I have spark...But even if it were off by a little bit, shouldn't I get some sort of "Boom"?
          Again, what color spark?

          Here is the updated Shift module that doesn't need the "Radio Shack Fix".... https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0...KIKX0DER&psc=1
          Take the ESA out of the loop for this testing.
          You will NOT be shifting into or out of gear, of which is the ONLY time when the ESA comes into play!


          And to clarify, if I am getting spark at the plug, this means the Kill switch is not the issue... correct.
          If the kill switch circuit is closed, then yes..... you are correct!
          Again..... what color spark are you seeing?

          Rick E. Gresham, Oregon
          2850 Bounty Sedan Flybridge model
          Twin 280 HP 5.7's w/ Closed Cooling
          Volvo Penta DuoProp Drives
          Kohler 4 CZ Gen Set

          Comment


            #9
            Which model Mallory ignition distributor? See Pics
            Do you have the correct ignition coil for the Mallory? I believe so.. I have bought like 3 or 4 just because...What does the "Correct coil" look like?
            What color spark are you seeing..... yellow, blue, whit-ish blue, etc? I use the timing light to detect spark. Timing light flashes I have spark, correct?
            Have you determined that your BASE advance is set correctly? TDC on Compression Stroke of #1.. Yes, confirmed again yesterday for the 100th time..about 10 degrees TDC.

            Comment


              #10
              Also, I read a thread that said that you had to have this ( CDI Electronics 123-9898-P Johnson/Evinrude Shift Assist Points and Electronic Distributor) and if you had this (P) model you would not need the diode modification.... I went out yesterday and looked at the part number on my existing module and it is this exact model..... So why did I need to build the Radio Shack Diode Apparatus? I assume I put it in because I was having shifting issues... Can anyone CONFIRM I do NOT need the Diodes if I have this model Module?

              Comment


                #11
                You'll have the best results if you were to roll up your sleeves and do what is being suggested.
                Use the tried and proven P of E..... (process of elimination) by testing/checking/replacing one item ONLY at a time!


                Originally posted by HADESWRAITH View Post
                Which model Mallory ignition distributor? See Pics
                OK.... that is the YLM554CV, of which is VR (variable reluctor).... and is a good unit!
                It is a magnetic triggering system!

                Make sure that you DO NOT touch the reluctor or sensor with anything metallic!

                Do you have the correct ignition coil for the Mallory? I believe so.. I have bought like 3 or 4 just because...What does the "Correct coil" look like?
                Go to the Mallory Marine website and look up what they recommend.

                What color spark are you seeing..... yellow, blue, whit-ish blue, etc? I use the timing light to detect spark. Timing light flashes I have spark, correct?
                Yes, but that is no indication of spark quality! It only indicates that it's good/strong enough to trigger the timing light.

                Have you determined that your BASE advance is set correctly? TDC on Compression Stroke of #1.. Yes, confirmed again yesterday for the 100th time..about 10 degrees TDC.
                It needs to be set to approximately 8 to 10 degrees BEFORE TDC at idle RPM.

                As for the firing order... looks like you're OK.


                Click image for larger version

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                Rick E. Gresham, Oregon
                2850 Bounty Sedan Flybridge model
                Twin 280 HP 5.7's w/ Closed Cooling
                Volvo Penta DuoProp Drives
                Kohler 4 CZ Gen Set

                Comment


                • HADESWRAITH
                  HADESWRAITH commented
                  Editing a comment
                  Your BOLD print BEFORE is giving me pause... I will go double check today.. It's gotta be. It's the 10 degree on the timing marks... They wouldn't put 10 degree after....would "they"?...... Hmmmm....

                • HADESWRAITH
                  HADESWRAITH commented
                  Editing a comment
                  I will take pics today of TDC and Rotar position.

                #12
                Originally posted by HADESWRAITH View Post
                Also, I read a thread that said that you had to have this ( CDI Electronics 123-9898-P Johnson/Evinrude Shift Assist Points and Electronic Distributor) and if you had this (P) model you would not need the diode modification.... I went out yesterday and looked at the part number on my existing module and it is this exact model..... So why did I need to build the Radio Shack Diode Apparatus? I assume I put it in because I was having shifting issues... Can anyone CONFIRM I do NOT need the Diodes if I have this model Module?

                Keep in mind that when you test/adjust the ESA system, the boat must be in the water in order to create the prop thrust that causes the dog clutch to remain locked up.
                It will be futile to attempt to adjust this while on the trailer!


                .

                Rick E. Gresham, Oregon
                2850 Bounty Sedan Flybridge model
                Twin 280 HP 5.7's w/ Closed Cooling
                Volvo Penta DuoProp Drives
                Kohler 4 CZ Gen Set

                Comment


                • HADESWRAITH
                  HADESWRAITH commented
                  Editing a comment
                  Yes, I remember getting the shift assist fixed was an ordeal.... again, it worked perfect before the riser failed. I don't really want to mess with it.

                #13
                ok run a wire to the pos side of the coil to the pos side of the battery post back after you start it,

                for just giggled you tried cranking her with the plugs out ?

                does it crank faster ?
                Be good, be happy, for tomorrow is promised to no man !

                1994 2452, 5.0l, Alpha gen. 2 drive. Sold ! Sold ! Sold !

                '86 / 19' Citation cuddy, Merc. 3.0L / 140 hp 86' , stringer drive. Sold ! Sold ! Sold !

                Manalapan N.J

                Comment


                  #14
                  OK, I stopped posting on my other post referring to the SeaFoam....... I went out this morning and doubled checked everything and it is in fact 10 degrees BTDC (as indicated on flywheel in picture)... I checked #1 Cylinder (yes, I know where it is) and it is just before TDC and Plug wire #1 is on the distributor cap at the location of the Rotor (see more pics)..... Everything looks right from what I have been told by numerous posters and tech sheets.... Here is my concern. When the tech who started yanking wires loose without marking them (this was not me) I tried to pay attention to what went where.... Can someone take a look at the Coil wire connections and compare to what you have (2455 Bayliner5.8L OMC Cobra) and let me know if the colors match up? The single Red, and Green go to the distributor.. it is the grey wires that are factory bound together I question.....

                  Comment


                    #15
                    This is being moved over from post #15 in the other and hopefully NOW discontinued thread.


                    Originally posted by 2850Bounty View Post
                    Keep in mind that the 335 series Ford engine's #1 cylinder is at the Forward most Starboard side........... just opposite of the GM SBC !
                    In other words, as you are looking at the front of the engine, the #1 cylinder will be to your left (Starboard side) and will be the closest cylinder to you .

                    Ford also numbers their cylinders 1, 2, 3, 4 on the Stdb bank (passenger side in a car/truck), and 5, 6, 7, 8 on the Port side bank (drivers side in a car/truck).
                    Again, very different from the GM SBC!

                    This is important to know when indexing the distributor and/or spark plug cables.



                    Here's my list of new and/or redundant questions:
                    1. Are you clear on the cylinder numbering... not only where #1 is, but also the order in which each cylinder is located within the cylinder block?
                    2. Is the distributor indexed correctly?
                    3. Is the distributor cap indexed correctly for each spark plug cable as per the Ford 5.8L firing order?
                    4. When @ #1 TDC on the Compression Stroke, where is the rotor aiming.... is it aiming towards the #1 cable tower within the cap?
                    5. Are you following the firing order in the CCW direction? (according to your picture, you are!)
                    6. Are you certain that each spark plug cable is connected to the correct cylinder?
                    7. Is the internal center cap post (for the high tension lead) making good contact with the rotor?
                    8. Is the rotor fully and correctly indexed to the distributor shaft ?
                    9. Is the rotor correct for the distributor?
                    10. What color spark are you seeing while testing..... yellow, white, white-ish blue????
                    11. Are the spark plugs clean?
                    12. Are the spark plugs gapped correctly for your ignition system's secondary voltage? (smaller gap for std system......, larger gap for HEI only)
                    13. Are the spark plugs "fuel wet" after a few starting attempts?
                    14. While I would NOT suggest using ether, can you get it to pop when a small amount of fuel is squirted into the primary throttle bores?
                    15. Is the starter motor spinning the crankshaft fast enough for the engine to fire off?


                    Rick E. Gresham, Oregon
                    2850 Bounty Sedan Flybridge model
                    Twin 280 HP 5.7's w/ Closed Cooling
                    Volvo Penta DuoProp Drives
                    Kohler 4 CZ Gen Set

                    Comment

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