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GUEST BATTERY SELECTOR WIRING PROBLEM

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    GUEST BATTERY SELECTOR WIRING PROBLEM

    I have a 97 2855. I'm the 2nd owner so I assume anything I have not done to the boat is probably the way it was built since the original owner told me he did not do any modifications. I kept the boat in the water connected to shore power during the boating season from 2004 thru 2017 when it was moved to Florida. In 2018 I put the boat into a dry stack marina in Florida where it has been ever since. The battery's do not get charged by the on board charger in the dry stack since it is never plugged in to shore power. The only charge they get is when the boat is running. Recently I noticed if I tried to start on the #2 setting on the Guest battery selector the starter just clicked like the battery was down. It started fine on BOTH and #1. I replaced what I though was the #2 battery and got the same result. I thought maybe something happened in the selector switch so I pulled it off the bulkhead to check the connections. What I discovered was the terminal post behind #2 setting was connected to the starter cable. The BOTH terminal post was connected to the #2 battery. The #1 terminal post was connected to the #1 battery. This seems wrong to me but I don't have installation instructions for the switch. I am assuming it was installed like this at the factory or maybe as add on at the dealer that sold the boat. If anyone has an installation guide for this switch could you take a picture of the proper connections and post it here or email it to me at bcohen62@hotmail.com. I don't know how this could have ever started on the #2 setting. I think the correct connection should be the starter cable on the BOTH post and the battery's connected to #1 and #2. I Don't want to change anything until I can see a wiring diagram for this switch.

    #2
    Someone reversed the cables in the past. You are correct that the terminal marked "Both" should go to the starter. How is your battery charger hooked up? That should be checked also.
    Gibraltar, Mi.
    1986- 3870- Hino 175's - Just purchased May ,2017
    34' Tollycraft- sold
    88 26' Shamrock/ Diesel
    14' Zodiac Bay Runner

    Comment


    • dukhuntr
      dukhuntr commented
      Editing a comment
      good idea.

    #3
    Taking these one at a time.

    Originally posted by dukhuntr View Post
    I have a 97 2855. I'm the 2nd owner so I assume anything I have not done to the boat is probably the way it was built since the original owner told me he did not do any modifications. I kept the boat in the water connected to shore power during the boating season from 2004 thru 2017 when it was moved to Florida. In 2018 I put the boat into a dry stack marina in Florida where it has been ever since. The battery's do not get charged by the on board charger in the dry stack since it is never plugged in to shore power. The only charge they get is when the boat is running. Recently I noticed if I tried to start on the #2 setting on the Guest battery selector the starter just clicked like the battery was down. It started fine on BOTH and #1.
    Typically, #1 will be your cranking battery bank, and #2 will be your house load battery bank.
    It's possible that your #2 bank has gone bad, or you have what we call a parasitic drain on #2.



    I replaced what I though was the #2 battery and got the same result.
    OK.... that should have eliminated #2 batt bank as being bad.

    I thought maybe something happened in the selector switch so I pulled it off the bulkhead to check the connections. What I discovered was the terminal post behind #2 setting was connected to the starter cable.
    That is incorrect! The cable from the starter motor will connect to the "common" post of the MBSS.
    When cabled this way, either battery bank can be selected to power all on board.


    The BOTH terminal post was connected to the #2 battery.
    There should be NO Both post.
    An MBSS (main battery selector switch) will offer three posts...... one "common", one #1 and one #2.


    NOTE: this schematic was draw up for a slightly different purpose and shows circuits that may not pertain to your boat's wiring.
    The battery cables and MBSS will be correct for you!
    The House and Accessory circuit panel can get it's power from the "common" post, or from the "common" cable starter motor connection.

    Click image for larger version

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    The #1 terminal post was connected to the #1 battery.
    That would be your starting or cranking batt bank!

    This seems wrong to me but I don't have installation instructions for the switch. I am assuming it was installed like this at the factory or maybe as add on at the dealer that sold the boat.
    I would pay NO attention to what the factory did or what the dealer did. There are much better ways to cable your MBSS than what the factory or the dealer had done.

    If anyone has an installation guide for this switch could you take a picture of the proper connections and post it here or email it to me at bcohen62@hotmail.com. I don't know how this could have ever started on the #2 setting. I think the correct connection should be the starter cable on the BOTH post and the battery's connected to #1 and #2.
    Again..... if you have a standard MBSS, there is no Both post, only a BOTH/ALL selection.
    Your MBSS will have a "common" terminal, a #1 terminal and a #2 terminal .


    I Don't want to change anything until I can see a wiring diagram for this switch.
    Unless you are wanting a more complicated system that would involve auto switching, etc........., my above schematic is tried and proven.

    Also note that ONLY battery cables are making a direct battery connection.
    Any accessory items can be powered via an auxiliary panel.
    Note how the on-board charger makes it's connection to each batt bank.

    Rick E. Gresham, Oregon
    2850 Bounty Sedan Flybridge model
    Twin 280 HP 5.7's w/ Closed Cooling
    Volvo Penta DuoProp Drives
    Kohler 4 CZ Gen Set

    Comment


    • dukhuntr
      dukhuntr commented
      Editing a comment
      I will have to see how the on board charger connects. I'm guessing they go directly to the battery's. Only battery cables and starter cable are connected on the back of the switch.

    • dukhuntr
      dukhuntr commented
      Editing a comment
      When I returned to the marina I checked the wiring on the switch. and it was correct. I had also taken the battery home with me on the previous visit to put it on the charger so I knew it was up. When I tried to start on #2 still same result, click on the starter and then nothing. I thought maybe the switch had went bad. It is closed up so you can't see the internal connections so I went and purchase a new switch and installed it and still got the same result. The wiring is strait forward. A cable from the both terminal to the starter. Boat will crank on #1 setting so I know that starter cable is good. Positive cable on both battery's go directly to the switch. Both battery's have separate ground cables that go directly to the block. I checked both ground cables for tightness and they are tight. I did not remove and inspect either of them.
      I'm going back to the marina and test the voltage at the switch from both battery's. I'm going to also loosen the ground on the block for #2 and check it for corrosion. I'm wondering if the positive cable for #2 could have failed so I will inspect it closely. I don't have any other ideas beyond checking the ground and the cable on #2. There no other switches the power passes thru from the battery to the starter.

    #4
    You're on the right track. At this point there has to be corrosion either in the pos cable from #2 bat to switch or the ground from #2 to the block.
    Tony Bacon,
    Washougal, WA
    Caspian
    1997 3788 Twin Cummins 250hp

    Comment


      #5
      As Rick stated earlier: there is no “both” lug on a MBSS, it is a “common” lug. There is only a switch selection for “both” that will connect both bank 1 & 2 to the common lug. Verify your cabling is not corroded and is connected properly.
      Dave
      Edmonds, WA
      "THE FIX"
      '93 2556 5.7 Bravo II 2.0:1 18 1/4x19 P
      (.030 over-Vortec top end-part closed cooled)
      The rebuild of my 2556 https://www.baylinerownersclub.org/f...76?view=thread
      Misc. projects thread
      https://www.baylinerownersclub.org/f...56-gctid789773

      Comment


        #6
        I went back to the marina and I brought the multi-meter with me. I checked both batteries at the posts and both tested 12.8. I then tested the voltage at the point where the battery cables connect to the switch post and they both tested 12.8 so I assume the cables are good and and are properly connected to the battery. I then used the switch to select each battery separately and I tested the voltage at the common post in the switch and again received 12.8 when selecting each battery. I then removed the ground wire on the block for the #2 battery and cleaned it and the block good and reconnected it. I then connected the multi-meter to the #2 battery post and ground wire on the block and still received the 12.8 reading. To me everything checks out OK. The only thing between the battery and the starter is the battery selector switch, no fuses! After confirming all the connections were OK I wanted to attempt cranking 1 more time on each battery separately. I selected #1, hit the horn switch to confirm it had power, turned on the key, the alarm sounded, turned the key to start, it cranked normal. I selected #2, hit the horn switch to confirm it had power, turned on the key, the alarm sounded, turned the key to start, it CLICKED like a low battery, I tried the horn again but it failed as if the battery was dead. I turned the battery off and on again for #2 but the horn would not sound just as if the battery was not selected or dead. I turned the battery switch off and wait about 10 minutes and turn #2 on again, the horn has power again. If I retry the #2 test again I get the same result? I'm now reduced to silly tests. I'm going to go back to the marina and take the #1 battery and drop it into the #2 position and see what happens. Could the NEW battery in #2 be defective? Could it have a bad cell and still show 12 volts?

        Comment


          #7
          The reading of 12.8 is a reading with no load applied, so it won’t really help diagnose the issue. You likely have a internally corroded battery cable for bank #2 (either positive or negative). You can use jumper cables to temporarily bypass the OEM battery cables to test that theory.
          Dave
          Edmonds, WA
          "THE FIX"
          '93 2556 5.7 Bravo II 2.0:1 18 1/4x19 P
          (.030 over-Vortec top end-part closed cooled)
          The rebuild of my 2556 https://www.baylinerownersclub.org/f...76?view=thread
          Misc. projects thread
          https://www.baylinerownersclub.org/f...56-gctid789773

          Comment


          • dukhuntr
            dukhuntr commented
            Editing a comment
            I will give that a try.

          #8
          PROBLEM SOLVED! I went back to the marina and put #1 into the #2 position because I knew the battery was good and this would test the cables on #2. The engine cranked! I thought my new battery is bad and I will return it. The #2 was sitting on the deck with the #1 below it in the #2 position. I removed the cables from the #2 and then I noticed the terminals looked different. I know I will get some flak for using car batteries in the boat but I have my reasons so I have to add the marine adapters to the posts to make them usable. If you look at the adapters you will notice they are completely painted, the area around the connection post is painted right to the post. When the wires are connected to the post they are not making good contact. The other battery has the same adapters but the area around the post is not painted right up to the post. Its bare metal for about 3/8 inch so the cables have a lot of contact area. I had another set of adapters so I put them on and ran a quick crank test and everything was working on both battery's. I brought the jumpers just in case I had to try builderdudes last suggestion.

          Comment


            #9
            Interesting that they are painted. I've never seen that before. Glad you got it figured out. In addition to paint corrosion and oxidation can also render the connection to be not a connection. When in doubt use one of those wire brush types of battery post/terminal cleaners to get shiny lead on each side of the connection. Or strip the paint off I guess. Congrats.
            Tony Bacon,
            Washougal, WA
            Caspian
            1997 3788 Twin Cummins 250hp

            Comment


            • dukhuntr
              dukhuntr commented
              Editing a comment
              the guy who did that was probably thinking about the weekend.

            #10
            Boils down to a poor battery cable connection. Glad you got it figured out
            Dave
            Edmonds, WA
            "THE FIX"
            '93 2556 5.7 Bravo II 2.0:1 18 1/4x19 P
            (.030 over-Vortec top end-part closed cooled)
            The rebuild of my 2556 https://www.baylinerownersclub.org/f...76?view=thread
            Misc. projects thread
            https://www.baylinerownersclub.org/f...56-gctid789773

            Comment


              #11
              FYI and FWIW........ over the years I have broken apart several different brands and models of MBSSs so that I could see the size of the contacts.
              Of the ones that were wimpy and with light spring pressure, Perko was at the top of the list!
              I found that BlueSea and Cole Hersee had much larger contacts and with a much more stout spring pressure.
              I also found that you would need to go back quite a few years to find one that was not "make-before-break".


              Regarding MBSS #1 and #2.
              There is no rule that determines which battery bank should be on MBSS #1 or #2 or visa-versa.

              However, most often we have a single cranking battery.
              MBSS #1 can be thought of as 1....... making it easy to remember.

              Most often our house load banks are made up of 2 or more batteries.
              MBSS #2 can be thought of as 2 or more.... making it easy to remember.


              Test on Friday!


              And no offense...... just a suggestion here:

              Click image for larger version

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              .
              Attached Files
              Rick E. Gresham, Oregon
              2850 Bounty Sedan Flybridge model
              Twin 280 HP 5.7's w/ Closed Cooling
              Volvo Penta DuoProp Drives
              Kohler 4 CZ Gen Set

              Comment


              • dukhuntr
                dukhuntr commented
                Editing a comment
                the replacement switch is a bluesea so I'm glad to hear your comment. Probably wasted my money buying it but glad I at least got a good brand. I liked the fact I could see the posts even when it was mounted unlike the Perko.

              #12
              thanks for all the ideas guys. those adapters are brand new. I have the same type on the other battery and thats how I noticed the shiny metal surrounding the posts on the one. I won't forget this.

              Comment

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