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Sinking -No Bail - Ciera 2252

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    Sinking -No Bail - Ciera 2252

    I have a 2002 Bayliner 2252 with a 5.0 merc. I have a couple of issues:

    1) I de-winterized the boat and it ran great. I put the earmuffs on it and it ran for longer that 30 minutes and it was moving water perfectly. I put it in the river and water started pouring into the bilge at such a rate that I barely got back to the dock (15 min total). The water got as high as the bottom of the engine. I took it home and ran it again with the earmuffs and did not get water intrusion, so it's obviously not coming from the engine. Where are obvious water intrusions on this model boat? I visibly inspected the Bellas and they don't seem torn, but then again I'm not sure what I'm looking at.

    2) during this Fiasco the rear bilge pump did not kick in. Is there a trick to getting down that low and changing the bilge pump? It looks nearly impossible to get to. Could it be a fuse or something simple on the bilge pump?

    3) The gas guague is not working. Is it fused?

    this is a new boat to me this season so any help will be greatly appreciated!!

    cheers

    #2
    The garboard plug was installed?
    yes, there should be a fuse for the bilge pump and a float switch to activate when water level gets to high.
    Likely u joint and/or shift cable bellow related. Could also be a faulty transom seal.
    Dave
    Edmonds, WA
    "THE FIX"
    '93 2556 5.7 Bravo II 2.0:1 18 1/4x19 P
    (.030 over-Vortec top end-part closed cooled)
    The rebuild of my 2556 https://www.baylinerownersclub.org/f...76?view=thread
    Misc. projects thread
    https://www.baylinerownersclub.org/f...56-gctid789773

    Comment


      #3
      Originally posted by Quetz View Post
      2) during this Fiasco the rear bilge pump did not kick in. Is there a trick to getting down that low and changing the bilge pump? It looks nearly impossible to get to. Could it be a fuse or something simple on the bilge pump?
      On many boats the bilge pump is impossible to access without pulling the engine. What I did in the past was fabricate a pump mount from aluminum that attached to a stringer and placed the pump down low, under the engine. Then I installed the mount and pump as a unit. After the new pump was installed I disconnected the old pump and left it in place. There are some horizontal bilge pumps that may make this easier.
      1999 3788, Cummins 270 "Freedom"
      2013 Boston Whaler 130 SS
      Anacortes, WA

      Comment


        #4
        Thank you for your prompt response.

        are you referring to the main light plug for the boat? I'm sorry, but I'm not sure I know what the garboard is.

        I will check all fuses.

        thanks again!!!

        Comment


        • builderdude
          builderdude commented
          Editing a comment
          Threaded Bilge drain plug located at the very bottom of the transom on the exterior

        #5
        There are several things at play here. First, the water intrusion when the boat is in the water sounds very much like a bellows issue. Starting with the drive down, put it one way hard over and look at the folds for tears. Use a long Phillips screwdriver to move the folds around. You should be able to use the housing as a leverage point to probe. Next raise the drive all the way and repeat. Look closely at the hose clamps at each end of the bellows, very often the clamp looks good but when probed will pop off. Another, smaller place is the shifter bellows and it usually requires popping off the drive. If you are comfortable doing that, and haven’t done it before, ask for instructions here on the forum and there will be lots of support. IMO, changing a tire can be worse.
        If the bellows haven’t been changed since 2002, and the boat is stored out of the water as you say, i suggest changing the whole set, driveline, exhaust and shifter. Over time the rubber can dry out and crack. If you do it yourself, be sure to use the quicksilver bellows glue. It’s probably a first cousin to contact cement, but the amount of work to get the project to that point justifies a few extra dollars.
        As to the bilge pump, two things come to mind. Yes, a blown fuse, or a connector gone bad. Getting it out from under the engine is often a matter of getting it out of the mount, the strainer part that’s attached to the hull. This is a great time to have a nimble youngster available. You can sometimes borrow them. There’s a little Tom Sawyer involved, or was it Huck Finn, whitewashing the fence, but they can get places most of us can’t and if carefully directed can really make it fun. Any connectors you replace need to be covered with shrink wrap with hot melt glue inside, yup, marine grade, available from amazon, to keep the water from getting into the connection. While it where you can marginally get at it, check to see that it isn’t jammed or full of stuff that might keep the pump from spinning. Make sure the float switch actually turns the pump on. Don’t ask. I found the wires to be the most common place for a problem and often one of the wires going to the float switch would fall away when moved.
        Let us know what you find.
        P/C Pete
        Edmonds Yacht Club (Commodore 1993)
        1988 3818 "GLAUBEN”
        Hino EH700 175 Onan MDKD Genset
        1980 Encounter Sunbridge "Misty Blue" (Sold)
        MMSI 367770440
        1972 Chevrolet Nova Frame off Resto-mod in the garage
        Boating on the Salish Sea since 1948

        Comment


          #6
          Builderdude, yeah the plug was in place and secure. It is threatened. The water intrusion pace was very much in line with no plug, it was fast.

          Norton Rider, I might very well have to take your suggestion. I just tried to get my fat ass by dropping down the side and got as far as my man boobs and got stuck . . . . I was still 2 feet from the pomp.

          PoPete, thanks for all the great insight. Checked the wiring and I can barely get to it, but it looks fine.the front pump kicks in and I can shut it off now. .I filled the bilge so the back pump circuitry might have activated and got stuck on. Not sure if they are independently wired. It could also be the switch which was getting a little stuck and I sprayed some silicone in it, but regardless the main pump on the bilge it's not doing anything.

          on to the water intrusion. . . I'm not really a boat guy but I am a little mechanically inclined and they're rubber on all the boots does not look aged to where it could be compromised. I looked with a light and the Integrity of the rubber is good all around and I don't see any holes at all.

          I work on my cars and motorcycles, but not too in depth oh, do you think I could take the drive off and fix it or should I just take it to the mechanic? You're very detailed response makes me question my ability to do the work myself. This is a very expensive fix generally?
          Thanks again guys, I was not expecting such great Insight from you guys, as I'm used to the motorcycle forums where guys can be jerks. Thanks again!!!




          Comment


            #7

            Comment


              #8
              Here are pics of the bellows and transom setup as a reference.

              Comment


                #9
                Since you had the plug in and the bellows look ok from the pictures I would then look at the thru hull for the head. Do you have air conditioning, if so thru hull for that should be looked at as well.

                if nothing is obvious take the boat to the ramp on a week day and just back it in leaving it on the trailer then climb in the engine compartment and see if you can locate the leak.
                1997 Maxum 2400 SCR 5.7LX Bravo II

                Mike

                Comment


                • builderdude
                  builderdude commented
                  Editing a comment
                  Exactly what I’d do

                #10
                Do have a helper?
                Try using the garden hose and blasting the entire transom area from the outside with plain ole hose water pressure..............like you are trying to find a windshield or T-top leak in a car. Blast other areas if no leaks are found near the transom.
                Your helper can witness the source or someone can hold their phone/camera down low in the engine compartment and take pics or video of the "action" in the bilge. Use your "flash" while taking pics or taking video.
                Present Boat- 2018 VR5 4.5/200hp Mercruiser
                Last Boat- 1998 Capri 1950CL 3.0 Mercruiser

                Comment


                  #11
                  Good pictures. The lower large hose I’d the exhaust hose and would not be a problem because it connects to that big Y shaped pipe inside. The upper large one is the bellows that is likely the problem. Pulling a drive is really pretty easy if you have some mechanical experience. First, put a chunk of cardboard on the ground and have a roll of those blue paper towels on had; then put the shifter in reverse, okay guys, tell him if I have that wrong and it should be in forward. Next, remove the E clips or nuts at both ends of the tilt rams then slide the aft end off of the stud. At this point you probably want to remove the prop or props. Place a block of wood under the skeg, the part under the prop shaft bulge, so that the drive is just vertical. Now, since it’s your first time, a buddy to help is a good idea. Remove the six nuts one both sides of the upper housing, then shake the unit side to side and it may start to slide off. If not, my next step is to put one of the nuts back on a turn or three, remove the block of wood, then let the unit drop about ten or fifteen degrees a couple of times. Once it starts to move it will come off fairly easily. Rotate the unit on the skeg while the top tips out. Once you see the u-joints, pick it up and set it aside. There is a valve to stop the lube from the reservoir from making a mess.
                  If there is water inside the bellows, we’ll go to the next step.
                  P/C Pete
                  Edmonds Yacht Club (Commodore 1993)
                  1988 3818 "GLAUBEN”
                  Hino EH700 175 Onan MDKD Genset
                  1980 Encounter Sunbridge "Misty Blue" (Sold)
                  MMSI 367770440
                  1972 Chevrolet Nova Frame off Resto-mod in the garage
                  Boating on the Salish Sea since 1948

                  Comment


                    #12
                    Another possible source is the trim connector block area or Y pipe seal. This is an Alpha drive? Mercathode or lower anode area is something to check also.
                    With the boat on the hard and the bow up as high as possible fill the bilge with the garden hose and look for leakage from the exterior.
                    Dave
                    Edmonds, WA
                    "THE FIX"
                    '93 2556 5.7 Bravo II 2.0:1 18 1/4x19 P
                    (.030 over-Vortec top end-part closed cooled)
                    The rebuild of my 2556 https://www.baylinerownersclub.org/f...76?view=thread
                    Misc. projects thread
                    https://www.baylinerownersclub.org/f...56-gctid789773

                    Comment


                      #13
                      Ok, I will dig in a little deeper. Tonight I put a very bring light behind the transom to see of I could see light and nothing from inside out or outside in.

                      Comment


                        #14
                        That’s a good diagnosis try. Unfortunately there are a bunch of light eaters along the way. The path is very crooked and not much to reflect light into, and through the shaft bearing. Here are a couple of links that are for alphas, but bravos are the same configuration. The pictures are representative but the part numbers are to be ignored.

                        https://www.mercruiserparts.com/bam/.../30858/1017/30
                        https://www.mercruiserparts.com/bam/.../30858/1017/50
                        P/C Pete
                        Edmonds Yacht Club (Commodore 1993)
                        1988 3818 "GLAUBEN”
                        Hino EH700 175 Onan MDKD Genset
                        1980 Encounter Sunbridge "Misty Blue" (Sold)
                        MMSI 367770440
                        1972 Chevrolet Nova Frame off Resto-mod in the garage
                        Boating on the Salish Sea since 1948

                        Comment


                          #15
                          Regarding your bilge pump, the common pumps Bayliner used were usually installed with a seperate float. The pumps were typically a unit which is removable from the housing. When we purchased our used Bsyliner the rear pump wasnt working. Once i found it -- just below the harmonic balancer -- i was able to reach under there and turn the float shaft. Pump didn't work, but after looking at the fore cabin pump assembly I realized I could turn the top CCW and the pump would come out of the housing. It had burned up prior to purchase. Cut it out from existing connectors and got a new one at local West Marine. Attached the wires, tested OK, and reinstalled it in the housing. I borrowed one of the wife's mirrors and laid it in the bilge just in front of the engine so I could see what I was doing.

                          The first pic is my forward bilge pump and float mechanism to give you an idea of what they look like presuming bayliner used the same setup (very common) in your boat. If you notice there is a black button near the discharge outlet. You need to push that in while turning to release the pump from the housing. Second pic is view of pump and float under my engine. I couldn't see mine either until I borrowed the wife's mirror.

                          These pumps come in different GPH output rates. Ensure you match what is there, or go bigger if fuse & wiring allow. Don't go smaller GPH.

                          Good luck with both problems.

                          1998 BL Ciera 2655 Sunbridge LX (Special Edition)
                          "Sea Flights"
                          5.7L 2bbl w/Thunderbolt Ignition
                          Alpha I Gen II Sterndrive with raw water cooling
                          MFG Extra's - A/C, Fresh Water Engine Flush port, HWH and Windlass
                          Docks @ Punta Gorda, Florida

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