Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

305 twin, Re-wiring questions for burnt boat.-gctid406633

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

    305 twin, Re-wiring questions for burnt boat.-gctid406633

    G'day from DownUnder,

    :noob-

    This all concerns a Bayliner 305 owned by a friend of mine. Actually, its a fire-damaged insurance write-off and he's purchased the hull - and what remains of the top deck.

    The original owner had a short-lived fire aboard which took out the saloon interior, helm position, cabin headlining etc and smoke-damaged the rest. 70 gallons of gasoline did NOT go up, and was'nt heat-damaged either.

    Engine room was virtually untouched, apart from a little smoke only. Both V-8s etc were stripped out by the insurer, as was nearly every inch of wiring that was'nt burnt. (for scrap value)- Which is where I come into the picture.

    Somehow, I find that I've agreed to re-wire the beast. (still can't recall saying 'YES")...

    Originally it was a case of "just a few inside lights plus the navigation.." then the bilge pumps, then the bow - thruster, then the anchor winch..... at which point it became obvious that this was a total replacement of every possible system. - Which I expected anyway. :surr

    At least the replacement engines, pair of 5 cyl Mercruiser diesels will have their dedicated harness & instruments etc. -Plug'n'Play.

    Seeing as the Engine Room is ready & waiting, I propose getting the heavy cables in place, NEG ones running around the blunt end to the engine-mounts, and POS cables up to the BATT. Switches.

    Question #1.

    What gauge is currently used, - from batteries to the engines/grounding bar. - That's the yellow ones across the stern, and the RED (or black?) ones on the forward engine-room bulkhead.

    Either the number ("AWG") will be printed on the cables, or even an accurate diameter of them would help. I suspect "0" or even "00".

    - I can work in square millimetres and/or AWG numbers.

    Thanks in advance !

    James (The unpaid Electrician...)

    Range-Rover Classic Owner.... so I'm used to fixing things, especially electrical...

    #2
    you have a lot of hell ahead of you, good luck with this project.

    As far as gauge wire going to the bus bars, its either 0 or 2 guage I belive, pretty thick stuff. Wont be at my boat till sunday so I cant tell you for sure.

    Comment


      #3
      I predict that more will be spent on this boat than it will ever be worth, and it will also have gremlins pop up randomly. This is a poor idea.

      The main cables on my 3055 are 4/0. This cost of this alone may be as much as an engine.

      Comment


        #4
        I am with carlos but I will go one further. It will cost you more than the boat is worth. A 100' roll of marine grade 2/0 battery cable is going to cost nearly $1000. Before any thing else. Thats just the red side so double that. If you have a substantial house battery bank you will use all that 100' roll.

        I am re wiring my 32'boat and I will tell you. Particularly in the starting circuit go up one size in wire from the factory. Almost all the wire on my boat on the starting circuit had burt ends on the wire. What the factory does is sufficient thats it. Its not great.

        On the charging circuit so you dont have alot of voltage drop go way up in size. My charging wires were burnt and were only size #8-10awg.

        My cables were #2awg now they will be 2/0. A lot of marine wiring advances have taken placeover the last 20 years. Do your self a favor if your are not following abyc code do so if you are great. You'll have a lot less problems.
        1989 Avanti 3450 Sunbridge
        twin 454's
        MV Mar-Y-Sol
        1979 Bayliner Conquest 3150 hardtop ocean express.
        Twin chevy 350's inboard
        Ben- Jamin
        spokane Washington

        Comment


          #5
          Thanks Gentlemen for the info.

          Yes, you're preaching to the choir on this one... We told him that it would be the Bottomless Pit of all boats... indeed we refer to it (out of earshot, of course) as The BINliner (Translation:--Aussie "bin" = US 'trashcan")

          The matched pair of diesels cost him virtually nothing, as the previous owner could'nt find the cause of chronic rough running & mis ing..... (We tightened up the injectors and they run smoooth & sweet.)

          So, he reckons he's several thousand in front... which has tipped the balance towards going ahead. Even the $3,000 price tag for the windscreen did'nt bother him. Plus shipping...

          Agree, factory-standard is barely adequate for the task, or even it's design-lifetiime. I tend to over-build, so going up a few sizes is no problem.

          Down here, high-quality welders cable is much cheaper than 'battery cable' of comparable size, and it's rated at 105 degrees Celsius as compared with 85 degrees. Food for thought...

          Anyway, I can't really criticize him, as I own (and $pend money on) a Range Rover Classic. I call it 'The Event Horizon'... whenever I go near it.... money is vanishes out of my wallet.

          James DownUnder

          Comment


            #6
            James, if it would help you, why don't you begin with a good schematic and post it here so that we can take a look at it?

            If he's hell bent on doing this project, you may as well go for it!

            He won't be the first owner to have done this, nor the first to realize that he's a bit upside-down once into it.

            .
            Rick E. Gresham, Oregon
            2850 Bounty Sedan Flybridge model
            Twin 280 HP 5.7's w/ Closed Cooling
            Volvo Penta DuoProp Drives
            Kohler 4 CZ Gen Set

            Comment


              #7
              My engine negatives and battery cables are 2/0.

              My question would be the current (amps) required to turn the diesel over and for the pre-heaters. Once you know the current demands you can verify your proper wire gauge.
              Jim McNeely
              New Hope a 2004 Bayliner 305 Sunbridge Express Cruiser
              Twin 5.7s with Bravo2 drives
              Brighton, Michigan USA
              MMSI # 367393410

              Comment


                #8
                Bounty, - I'm going to cheat... using the original Bayliner circuit diagram as far as possible. - Same with the layout. Even the same brand (Carling) switches on the helm panel. Engine instruments will be standard Mercruiser as per the engines.

                The only major changes will be the substitution of the interior halogen lamps with (brighter) LEDs, and unless something to the contrary comes up, 'welding' cable for the heavy stuff. - Cheaper, more flexible and tougher sheath than 'Battery Cable'. - Lots of double-layer coloured shrink tubing.... Also plan on using PVC electrical conduit for any wiring that's hidden or difficult to get at.

                The earth-bonding, such as sea-cock to other bits & pieces in the engine room, is 8 AWG (8.35mm sq.) domestic earthing cable... y'know, the green/yellow, copper cable. NOT tinned.

                JimMc (Fine name that, Jim...) - Yes, 2/0 is also known as "00" or "double-aught" I think. That would make it 67.5 sq. mm, Metric size is 70 sq mm. The $ differance between 50 I was planning on and 70mm is only dollars per metre...

                The anchor windlass and bow-thruster use 2 AWG, a shade smaller than Metric 35 sq.mm. (A few pieces survived the strip-out)

                Yes indeed, when he gets firm quotes on some of the other stuff............ !

                50mm or 70mm will easily start the diesels, they're only 140hp (111kW) each. - Before you say it... they used to push the original (38') boat up on the plane and around 22 ~ 24 knots... And the owner's Wife does NOT want to travel that fast. Ever.

                James DownUnder

                Comment


                  #9
                  And the owner's Wife does NOT want to travel that fast. Ever.
                  WTF?!? Boy, you are certainly dealing with a pair of weirdos. So they will never be on plane? That hull doesn't plane well until you get to at least 23 knots, but still clearly wants to go faster.

                  Comment


                    #10
                    I have used welding cable for boats. I personally don't have any oroblem with it. The fact is that many of the welding cable specs beat marine specs. The problem being that because they arent marine spec you might get hassled by some insurance company or survey problem. Beyond that welding cable works well
                    1989 Avanti 3450 Sunbridge
                    twin 454's
                    MV Mar-Y-Sol
                    1979 Bayliner Conquest 3150 hardtop ocean express.
                    Twin chevy 350's inboard
                    Ben- Jamin
                    spokane Washington

                    Comment


                      #11
                      I would use only marine approved tinned wire, Ancor is great but cost more than most other brands, go to the Ancor site and there is a chart for wire sizes and wiring colors, use yellow for the neg. side not black. I only use 14 gauge or larger, never 16 ga., use adhesive heat shrink terminals from the deck down or in wet areas, buy a good quality crimper for those terminals not heat shrink. If you use welding cable use adheasive heat shrink on the terminals, the heavy duty type and color coded pos and neg.
                      Pat says: DO-IT-RIGHT THE FIRST TIME!

                      Bayliner 3870 "ALASKA33)
                      Twin 350 GM power
                      Located in Seward, AK
                      Retired marine surveyor

                      Comment


                        #12
                        G'day again, (well, midnight here....! )

                        Yachtsman, I agree, my own findings -so far- is that the sheaths around Quality welding cable is robust and safer than ordinary marine grade.

                        IIMHO, the 305 hull just looks like planing, even when berthed.... but as this is going to be a river-boat subject to an 8 knot limit, it's no big problem. Naturally, when SWMBO is ashore the boat will travel a bit quicker... Look up Google-Earth, and check out the Swan River (Perth, Western Australia) and you'll notice that most of it appears shallow. It is. - Hence the speed limit.

                        Funny that you should mention Ancor, had come across it, and one of the best-priced merchants does'nt ship internationally. - His loss. Local suppliers want an arm & a leg for the 'Marine Grade TCW' in fancy colours. Red and Black TCW (Marine grade yet cheaper...) is looking very attractive !!!

                        Been doing automotive etc wiring and own a nice ratchet crimper for the small stuff, and a 12 ton hydraulic one (6 sided crimp) for the cables. The adhesive heat-shrink is known down here as 'double wall'. Makes a great 101% sealed join. I use in on ALL terminals, along with 'liquid insulator' when appropriate. Also believe in doing it right the first time.

                        James DownUnder

                        Comment


                          #13
                          I buy a lot of wire, connectors and heat shrink for the boat from http://www.pacergroup.net/.

                          I checked and they do ship internationally.
                          Jim McNeely
                          New Hope a 2004 Bayliner 305 Sunbridge Express Cruiser
                          Twin 5.7s with Bravo2 drives
                          Brighton, Michigan USA
                          MMSI # 367393410

                          Comment


                            #14
                            superquag wrote:
                            G'day again, (well, midnight here....! )

                            Yachtsman, I agree, my own findings -so far- is that the sheaths around Quality welding cable is robust and safer than ordinary marine grade.

                            IIMHO, the 305 hull just looks like planing, even when berthed.... but as this is going to be a river-boat subject to an 8 knot limit, it's no big problem. Naturally, when SWMBO is ashore the boat will travel a bit quicker... Look up Google-Earth, and check out the Swan River (Perth, Western Australia) and you'll notice that most of it appears shallow. It is. - Hence the speed limit.

                            Funny that you should mention Ancor, had come across it, and one of the best-priced merchants does'nt ship internationally. - His loss. Local suppliers want an arm & a leg for the 'Marine Grade TCW' in fancy colours. Red and Black TCW (Marine grade yet cheaper...) is looking very attractive !!!

                            Been doing automotive etc wiring and own a nice ratchet crimper for the small stuff, and a 12 ton hydraulic one (6 sided crimp) for the cables. The adhesive heat-shrink is known down here as 'double wall'. Makes a great 101% sealed join. I use in on ALL terminals, along with 'liquid insulator' when appropriate. Also believe in doing it right the first time.

                            James DownUnder
                            I believe that automotive grade wire has a slightly smaller wire cross section than marine, something to consider.
                            Pat says: DO-IT-RIGHT THE FIRST TIME!

                            Bayliner 3870 "ALASKA33)
                            Twin 350 GM power
                            Located in Seward, AK
                            Retired marine surveyor

                            Comment


                              #15
                              boatworkfl wrote:
                              I believe that automotive grade wire has a slightly smaller wire cross section than marine, something to consider.
                              I will agree. Automotive wire is not a good choice . Also I would like to point out that although I said that I thought welding cable was good cable that I am using marine grade ancor battery cable in my boat. Welding cable is second choice. Automotive wiring is not a good choice at all for marine for various reasons.

                              marine wire is tinned and has better protection against corrosion.

                              Also the strands of wire in marine wire are smaller but has more strands. ( not sure its bigger just more strands) the smaller more strand wire can carry more amperage.

                              Also the marine grade wire haveing smaller and more strands to accomplish.the same agw is more flexible and vibration resistant.
                              1989 Avanti 3450 Sunbridge
                              twin 454's
                              MV Mar-Y-Sol
                              1979 Bayliner Conquest 3150 hardtop ocean express.
                              Twin chevy 350's inboard
                              Ben- Jamin
                              spokane Washington

                              Comment

                              Working...
                              X