Ignition upgrade...-gctid404475

[2850Bounty]

RJH wrote:

• 1 wrote:
• It goes without saying that if you install a kit in a worn out distributor you are not going to realize the full benefits of the kit. That has nothing to do with the function of the product itself.
• If Pertronix has had quality control problems that result in the errors you mentioned, while not absolutely accurate, those kinds of errors could easily be even worse with a Kettering system in good condition.
• As for the pros and cons of Hall effect sensors, it's really not an issue. Ford used them in literally millions of vehicles that used the TFI ignition from the mid eighties to the mid nineties. Current after market systems use a mix hall effect and VR sensors. One's as good as the other.

• 1 wrote:
• True.
  
  But as we both know, people who buy these kits are looking for an inexpensive electronic ignition.
  
  They're looking for something that installs simply and quickly......., and they think they're done!
• Yes, I'll take the Kettering system over the Pertronix.
• Understood..... but like said, my issue is with the way in which Pertronix does this.... not with Hall Effect intrinsically.
  
  IMO, the little plastic magnet embedded unit is cheesy!
  
  Contrast this with a photo-eye rotor wheel or with a Variable Reluctor.
  
  The make/break with the rotor wheel is at a larger diameter..... and the reluctor is a precisionally machined component.
  
  Apples/Oranges!

But again, Robert...... this is an opinion only. If ya like the Pertronix, then ya like the Pertronix.

.

[Guest]

It goes without saying that if you install a kit in a worn out distributor you are not going to realize the full benefits of the kit. That has nothing to do with the function of the product itself.

If Pertronix has had quality control problems that result in the errors you mentioned, while not absolutely accurate, those kinds of errors could easily be even worse with a Kettering system in good condition.

As for the pros and cons of Hall effect sensors, it's really not an issue. Ford used them in literally millions of vehicles that used the TFI ignition from the mid eighties to the mid nineties. Current after market systems use a mix hall effect and VR sensors. One's as good as the other.

[2850Bounty]

RJH wrote:
Rick,

I am curious as to why you have a dislike of the Pertronix kits. What is your logic behind this opinion?

Robert, that is correct..... it' my opinion only. Many have great luck with the Pertronix kits.

Hall Effect in and of itself is a great triggering principle, and in particular as the diameter is greater.... such as flywheel Hall Effect.

However, I don't care for the way in which Pertronix created their version of Hall Effect triggering via the small plastic unit that houses the magnetic units.

Pertronix themselves have commented on a potential error of up to 1 or 1-1/2 degrees within their magnetic unit. I don't know if the issue was within a certain run of parts, or if it continues to be an issue.

Add to this the common misnomer that many people think of the Pertronix kit conversion as a fix-all to their previous ignition issues.

Remember....., these kits are finding their way into existing 20, 25 or even 30 year old distributors........ not new distributors!

Owners have a tendency to over-look the condition of their 20, 25 or even 30 year old distributors, and then simply install the kit.

If their shaft bushings and advancing system is OK, then the kits work..... and no more kettering system to fiddle with! :coo-

But if we have worn shaft bushings (very common with a 20, 25 or even 30 year old distributor) and/or an advancing system that is not doing what it's suppose to being doing (again, very common), we get great start-ups and low speed operation......., but may not quite get the performance hoped for.

Good news is.... at anywhere from $90 to $120 (+/-) , they are affordable.

Add the cost of a new cap/rotor ($30 +/- ) and we're up to about $150 or so.

My thoughts are.... take that $150 and apply it towards a complete new system.

Ya get all new everything; new housing, shaft, gear, bushings, advancing system, cap/rotor, etc. .... and NO Hall Effect triggering, unless we go with Pertronix or Accel, or a few others who are using Hall Effect!

I believe that VR and/or Photo-eye will outperform the Pertronix Hall Effect.

I see and hear of fewer issues with VR.

Robert, that's just my take on this. The kits will work OK, and in particular if we take the time to check the distributor out for wear, curve, limit, etc.............. but you and I both know that is seldom done.

I'll help anyone with a Pertronix problem if I'm able to.

.

[Guest]

Rick,

I am curious as to why you have a dislike of the Pertronix kits. What is your logic behind this opinion?

trying wrote:
Its a kit from Barrs via a supplier in the UK... there doesn't seem to be a great deal of choice over here

Delco I believe

2850Bounty wrote:
Which system did you buy?

Brand/model, etc.

.

Its a kit from Barrs via a supplier in the UK... there doesn't seem to be a great deal of choice over here

[2850Bounty]

Which system did you buy?

Brand/model, etc.

.

2850Bounty wrote:
I deliberately stayed out of this thread due to my unpopular dislike of the Pertronix kits........, but I think that you made a good decision by replacing the entire distributor.

.

Rick,

It works out only about £90 more expensive to go for a replacement distributor kit... a little more of my time but I feel the benefits are worth it...

I'm not sure about the change to the shift interuptor which they say just uses the shift interupt switch and that the overstroke switch and module are redundant.... I guess I'll find out when I fit it... it would be good to hear from anyone who has done this on an OMC....

[2850Bounty]

yachtman wrote:
Best purchase a new pointless distributor

Aimhii wrote:
................. Go with the full kit (electronic conversion) (don't just replace the cap to the cheap electronic rotorless)....

trying wrote:
Thanks for all the replies and recommendations...

Looks like a replacement distributor kit, having costed this out it isn't all that much more expensive than a conversion kit for the existing distributor plus new cap and rotor and means no concerns about the condition of the original distributor.

I deliberately stayed out of this thread due to my unpopular dislike of the Pertronix kits........, but I think that you made a good decision by replacing the entire distributor.

.

Thanks for all the replies and recommendations...

Looks like a replacement distributor kit, having costed this out it isn't all that much more expensive than a conversion kit for the existing distributor plus new cap and rotor and means no concerns about the condition of the original distributor.

According to Barrs, this also does away with the ESA module and just utilises the shift interupt switch wired to the new distributor...

I have had all three ignitions (points, GM Voyager and the Pertronixs). Points got very bad for awhile after solid state was mainstream in auto. I think early Mexico condensors were a problem. I went to the voyager system after that and it ran great but the ESA had burnt out on my OMC Corbra and tried as I might - even set up a steady idle at 400 rpm I couldn't get it to shift out of gear on water without turning off the ignition. The Voyager does not work with the OMC/ESA. States that in the instruction/installation manual. This was back in the 2001 time frame. I have since found forum discussions where the interupt swiches can be adjusted and connected to work like Mercury but havent put the Voyager back on. It is a distrubtor change and base timing change (distributor goes into cam at different time).

Long story but finally ended up with the Pertronix and a new ESA. Parts for OMC are now pretty available again. and basically no maintenance on ignition for the past six years. They work great. If they ever die I may try the voyager again - it's in the cave.

Roy

88, 5.7L OMC Bayliner 2455

Pertronix kit. I'm on my third kit in three boats. Never missed a beat. I won't do without them. If you shop around you can get a good deal on Electronic kit w/ flamethrower coil.

Timing is still set the way you do it now, with a timing light. The Pertronix kit that replaces the points only doesn't affect advance. It is still handled by the mechanical advance in the bottom of the distributor. It really only takes place of the points. So dwell doesn't every need to be reset, points don't corrode. I find the boat starts easier and runs a little smoother.

Went to Pertonix we site and found there to be many modules and coil combinations. Which specific one did you chose for your boat/motor application. Also, can you say someting about needed adjustment of advance/timing. I assume this will work for a four cyclinder GMC block which I have. Some more details please!

[Guest]

A well maintained and set up Kettering (conventional points and condenser) ignition system will work just fine in almost any application up to about 5000 RPM or even higher.

The key here is "well maintained and set up".

The beauty of the Pertronix kits, or similar from other makers, is that once installed, there is no maintenence. It won't give you any better economy or power than a good Kettering system will, but it requires no maintenance, so it will continue to deliver that kind of performance for as long as nothing in the system fails, and they are really quite dependable.