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On water drive not shifting into neutral and reverse-gctid403925

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    On water drive not shifting into neutral and reverse-gctid403925

    Pulled shift cover off then removed cable and used pliers to gently shift into neutral. Shifted ok for awhile but now able to shift into forward only. Can't get into neutral or reverse again. Any ideas?

    #2
    Kelly, two suggestions:

    Pick up a new O-ring for the shift mechanism, pull shift mechanism, inspect the shift shoe.

    A broken shift shoe may be causing this.

    (drain oil first)

    See the BOC Vault for Bob Case's reverse latch thread, and there will be photos showing the coupling rod and lock brace.

    Check these to see if they move freely.

    .
    Rick E. Gresham, Oregon
    2850 Bounty Sedan Flybridge model
    Twin 280 HP 5.7's w/ Closed Cooling
    Volvo Penta DuoProp Drives
    Kohler 4 CZ Gen Set

    Comment


      #3
      Reverse shifting has been fixed... the linkage apparently was off just enough to cause the problem. Took the boat out today for several hours and reverse worked every time and without any hiccups. That's good news!

      The frustrating news is that I've lost the ability to run my boat at home with the outdrive submerged in a tub of water as I'm not getting any discharge like I was before. I pulled the cover off the sea pump and didn't see any evidence of a damaged impeller, especially since this is a new one with about 5 hours of run time on it. I did replace the water neck gasket during the rebuild, so I don't think that's it either, but I did use rtv on the gasket and I read lastnight that I should have installed it dry... so maybe that has caused the issue. I am aware that even though I'm able to pull water into the system at idle and slow speeds, once I get on plane the waterneck could be above the water line, but I'm keeping a close eye on temps... so far all good.

      I still have the oil leak which sucks, but the cookie sheet and paper towels under the leak will suffice for the rest of the season.

      I'd love to be able to dial in the carb for rich/lean, but without the ability to run at home, I don't see that happening just yet.

      All and all, enjoying the water life... it's not easy with all these unknowns, but it's getting better with each passing hour of experience!

      Thank you to all those who have responded to all my diatribes! :worth

      KC :-)

      Comment


        #4
        kellynm wrote:
        Reverse shifting has been fixed... the linkage apparently was off just enough to cause the problem. Took the boat out today for several hours and reverse worked every time and without any hiccups.
        Hi guys... took the boat and family out. I had issues...1) Boat in Neutral, drive in fwd gear.2) No reverse.I read my post from about the same time last year and... well... scratched my head. What is going on with the drive?So, starting from the begining, I was able to freely shift fwd,neutral, and reverse while sitting on the ramp. Put boat in water, backed up away from dock in reverse, shifted into fwd, then neutral... everything working great (normal).Got boat on plane, slowed down and then put in neutral and notice I was still in gear as I could see signs of propulsion in the water. I then tried to go into reverse, and it would not go. So, I beached the boat, removed the shift cover, and removed the cotter pin and washer (22 and 41).

        http://baylinerownersclub.org/media/....jpg[/img]I then slid the control rod (18) out from the gear yoke (2). The eccentric piston (56) was stuck and would not budge.

        http://baylinerownersclub.org/media/....jpg[/img]So I grabbed a pair of vice grips, locked and and freed the stuck eccentric piston. Reassembled and started boat. Boat in neutral, no fwd propulsion. Shifted into reverse, no problem. Then neutral, and then forward. Drove fwd for a minute, put in neutral and yep... still in gear going fwd and no reverse capability.....................So, here we are. I am going to inspect the shift shoe (after draining oil). But I am really at a loss as what to do. I should probably go back and read the Bob Case thread for some insight. Thoughts anyone?

        Comment


          #5
          I'll still suggest that you pick up an O-ring and remove the eccentric piston housing.

          A broken shift shoe may be causing an intermittent issue. Depends on where it's broken... if broken at all.

          If you tilt the drive fully up, you may not loose much gear oil when you remove this housing.

          Reading Bob Case's thread will guide you re; the Reverse Latch unit, but I don't recall that thread going into any other issue discussions.

          The Reverse Latch coupling rod and lock brace can/may affect a shift into REV................ but not a shift into FWD.

          .
          Rick E. Gresham, Oregon
          2850 Bounty Sedan Flybridge model
          Twin 280 HP 5.7's w/ Closed Cooling
          Volvo Penta DuoProp Drives
          Kohler 4 CZ Gen Set

          Comment


            #6
            I had a similar issue and it turned out the shift cable was stretching inside of the plastic covering. You may want to check for this problem.

            Comment


              #7
              Drained oil and inspected shift shoe. Looks like new. I have a AQ280 drive that I picked up from CL about a year ago and pulled the shift shoe from it... mine looks to be in better condition the the 280 version... so I don't believe the shoe is the issue.

              The clevis pin is what is getting stuck when I have to breal free the eccentric piston. What wold cause that condition? If it's an o-ring, I going to pull out my hair! :-)

              The shift cable... that's a good idea... maybe it's time to replace it.

              Comment


                #8
                kellynm wrote:
                Drained oil and inspected shift shoe. Looks like new. I have a AQ280 drive that I picked up from CL about a year ago and pulled the shift shoe from it... mine looks to be in better condition the the 280 version... so I don't believe the shoe is the issue.

                [COLOR]"#0000FF" wrote:
                If it's in one piece, then it should be OK.

                NOTE: for the brass 280 style sliding sleeve, the shift shoe must be steel..... not bronze coated. [/COLOR]

                The clevis pin is what is getting stuck when I have to breal free the eccentric piston. What wold cause that condition?

                [COLOR]"#0000FF" wrote:
                Odd as this may sound, the clevis pin installs from the FWD side of the eccentric piston ear.

                The cotter pin will be AFT of this. As the piston rotates from neutral into gear, it will move outward and will crowd the forward area some as it returns.

                This is usually not an issue.

                In this image, we should be seeing the cotter pin end of the clevis pin...... not the head of the clevis pin. [/COLOR]



                If it's an o-ring, I going to pull out my hair! :-)

                [COLOR]"#0000FF" wrote:
                As in the O-ring being the issue? NO..... it won't be.

                The reason for a new O-ring, is because they should not be re-used.[/COLOR]

                The shift cable... that's a good idea... maybe it's time to replace it.
                Question: when you say that the transmission will not shift into gear, are you saying that it won't make the shift selection, or that it makes the selection, but won't engage into gear????

                These two issues are not the same.

                .
                Rick E. Gresham, Oregon
                2850 Bounty Sedan Flybridge model
                Twin 280 HP 5.7's w/ Closed Cooling
                Volvo Penta DuoProp Drives
                Kohler 4 CZ Gen Set

                Comment


                  #9
                  2850Bounty wrote:
                  Question: when you say that the transmission will not shift into gear, are you saying that it won't make the shift selection, or that it makes the selection, but won't engage into gear????These two issues are not the same..
                  Rick.... sorry about the confusion(s). Let's start with what my diagram called the clevis pin... it's not what you called the clevis pin. So here's the actual pic of what I'm talking about:

                  http://baylinerownersclub.org/media/....jpg[/img]See the pin that sticks out of the eccentric piston? That is whats getting hung up when I try to shift from neutral to rev. To answer your last question: I'm saying it wont make the shift selection, as in I can't pull back on the throttle lever at the helm.If you look at the pic, you can see where that pin has been rubbing the metal. I reassembled the drive and can easily move the eccentric piston into any location, fwd, neu, rev and back and forth... no resistance what so ever. I'm really leaning towards the shift cable as being the culprit...

                  Comment


                    #10
                    That is the eccentric piston neutral detent pin.

                    It holds the piston in a position that holds the sliding sleeve equal distance between the two driven gear cups. IOW .... neutral.



                    If the detent pin has undegone a heavy hit, it can distort it's bore in the brass piston body.

                    When the piston OD becomes distorted, and as the piston moves AFT for a shift, it can become tight in the cast iron bore of the housing.

                    Drive the little spring pin fully in.

                    Remove the detent pin.

                    Now remove the piston from the housing.

                    NOTE: immediately spray carb cleaner into the spring pin bore (this thins out the oily film).

                    Gently tap the brass body on a hard surface to shake the spring pin out.

                    If you fail to do this, and install a new spring pin, the next guy in will not be able to remove the current pin because the old pin blocks the hole.

                    Now check to see how easily the brass piston moves in the cast iron bore.

                    File some brass material away if need be.

                    Make darn sure that the spring pin has enough friction to hold into the detent pin.... or install a new one.

                    BTW, you're right there to install a new eccentric piston seal while you're in this far.

                    This double lip seal is directional.

                    .
                    Rick E. Gresham, Oregon
                    2850 Bounty Sedan Flybridge model
                    Twin 280 HP 5.7's w/ Closed Cooling
                    Volvo Penta DuoProp Drives
                    Kohler 4 CZ Gen Set

                    Comment


                      #11
                      2850Bounty wrote:
                      That is the eccentric piston neutral detent pin.

                      It holds the piston in a position that holds the sliding sleeve equal distance between the two driven gear cups. IOW .... neutral.



                      If the detent pin has undegone a heavy hit, it can distort it's bore in the brass piston body.

                      When the piston OD becomes distorted, and as the piston moves AFT for a shift, it can become tight in the cast iron bore of the housing.

                      Drive the little spring pin fully in.

                      Remove the detent pin.

                      Now remove the piston from the housing.

                      NOTE: immediately spray carb cleaner into the spring pin bore (this thins out the oily film).

                      Gently tap the brass body on a hard surface to shake the spring pin out.

                      If you fail to do this, and install a new spring pin, the next guy in will not be able to remove the current pin because the old pin blocks the hole.

                      Now check to see how easily the brass piston moves in the cast iron bore.

                      File some brass material away if need be.

                      Make darn sure that the spring pin has enough friction to hold into the detent pin.... or install a new one.

                      BTW, you're right there to install a new eccentric piston seal while you're in this far.

                      This double lip seal is directional.

                      .
                      Rick,

                      Thanks for the info as always. I will try to get this done soon. I do have a question though... Why is it that when the boat is in the carport, running on water from the garden hose, the shifting is fine. As soon as I get on the lake, it all goes to hell?

                      Trying to stay positive,

                      KC

                      Comment


                        #12
                        I have no clue if you're talking about going from neutral into gear!
                        Rick E. Gresham, Oregon
                        2850 Bounty Sedan Flybridge model
                        Twin 280 HP 5.7's w/ Closed Cooling
                        Volvo Penta DuoProp Drives
                        Kohler 4 CZ Gen Set

                        Comment


                          #13
                          2850Bounty wrote:
                          I have no clue if you're talking about going from neutral into gear!
                          I'm just at a loss as to why the shifting behaves normally on land, hooked up to the hose, yet when I get it on the lake, it stays in gear while in neutral and won't shift into reverse...

                          It drives me nuts!

                          Comment


                            #14
                            kellynm wrote:
                            I'm just at a loss as to why the shifting behaves normally on land, hooked up to the hose, yet when I get it on the lake, it stays in gear while in neutral and won't shift into reverse...

                            It drives me nuts!
                            OK..... that tells me that the sliding sleeve is not disengaging from the gear cup.

                            If running a LH prop, your driven gear will be the lower gear.

                            If running a RH prop, your driven gear will be the upper gear.

                            The gear "cup" will be respective to the above.

                            NOTE: prop thrust from being in the water is similar to the Dog Clutch drives.

                            The Cone Clutch drives usually separate easily, however, if the idle RPM is too high, the sliding sleeve and gear cup will undergo a similar load as does the Dog Clutch unit.

                            IOW, this thrust alone may be preventing the sliding sleeve from releasing from the gear cup.

                            Torque is what causes the Cone Clutch's final engagement, and is also what keeps the Cone Clutch drive engaged while under power.

                            If you were to quickly back off on the throttle, and if you were able to see the sliding sleeve and gear cup while doing this....... they would relax and disengage for a fraction of a second.

                            Think of the Volvo Penta "cone clutch" as if it were a one-way-only-engagement device.

                            If you were to reverse engine rotation, the V/P cone clutch would never engage.

                            Either the shift shoe is not working correctly, the cable is not operating the gear yoke correctly, the outer cable jacket is funky, the cable clamp at the Intermediate housing is loose, or __________ .

                            .
                            Rick E. Gresham, Oregon
                            2850 Bounty Sedan Flybridge model
                            Twin 280 HP 5.7's w/ Closed Cooling
                            Volvo Penta DuoProp Drives
                            Kohler 4 CZ Gen Set

                            Comment


                              #15
                              2850Bounty wrote:
                              Either the shift shoe is not working correctly, the cable is not operating the gear yoke correctly, the outer cable jacket is funky, the cable clamp at the Intermediate housing is loose, or __________ .
                              Thanks for the list Rick. I'm thinking the cable is probably at fault. But the old man in me thinks why not just grind down the area on the housing where that pin is getting stuck? Maybe the sliding sleve will release like its suppossed to?

                              Well on second thought.... maybe I shouldn't go grinding down on stuff.... :-)

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