Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Dual Pro Charging Systems charger with Blue Seas ACR

Collapse
X
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

    #31
    Thanks for the insight, everyone. I can do one of two things to achieve the dual goals of having the alternator charge both banks when the engine is running and a charger charging both banks when on the trailer or, rarely, when I need a charge at a slip: remember I already have a Blue Seas ACR which provides for the alternator charging both banks when the engine is running.

    1. As Kevin says, I could just use one set of outputs connected to the starting battery and the ACR will take care of the logic of balancing the charge and preventing overcharging when the engine is not running.

    2. I could install a switch on the "ground wire" of the ACR to turn it off when the charger is being used but this gains me nothing, really. I might do it if I'm really looking for an afternoon project but flipping that switch is just another thing to remember.

    so I will do the first. In hindsight, a single output charger would have been the thing to get since the ACR is already there and I'm not willing to take it out and get a dual charger with ACR functionality. Too bad I didn't know of such a device 2 years ago when the ACR went in, but that's the way upgrades go.

    thanks everyone. Looks like several of us learned something on this thread.
    Bayliner 195 Bowrider 2013 4.3l 220hp MPI
    Alpha 1, Gen II
    2012 Toyota Highlander V6 4wd with tow package
    Albany, Ohio

    MMSI: 338234042


    Beware the men of measured merriment
    (Sinclair Lewis, Arrowsmith, paraphrased)

    Comment


      #32
      Originally posted by Douggy View Post

      You apparently "don't get it". You install an acr when you want your alternator to be capable of charging multiple battery banks. You could just use a MBSS but the "A" in ACR means "Auto" and "CR" means "Charge Relay" where the acr circuit detects the charge status of the main (start) battery bank under charge from the alternator and switches the alternator output to the 2nd (house) battery bank if the Main (start) battery bank is in the fully charged state.

      When your boat engine is on you don't want your AC battery charger on, no matter if it is a single , dual bank, acr installed or not.

      If you have a acr and you want to charge your batteries with a single bank battery charger then you can by connecting to one of the battery banks and it will charge that first battery and then the acr will switch to the other battery bank after the first battery bank has reached full charge state.

      My duel bank battery charger has a acr function module that is only active when the boat engine is on and the battery charger if off. This allows the engine alternator to first charge the main (start) battery bank first and then switches to the 2nd battery bank (house) once the main (start) battery is in the fully charged state.

      When I want to charge both batteries using the on-board dual bank charger, I first make sure the boat engine is off, then plug in (ac) the dual bank charger and it does it's job as a normal smart dual bank battery charger.
      Dont be Silly...

      firstly... I fully "get it"... and if people would take the time to do some history on why its called an ACR, and how it works best as designed, there would be less confusion and less people who THINK they know, but really dont.... its not hard to understand the concept of how and why it works, and HOW it should be installed to work the best, unless one one only believes the rumors that other people who dont know, tell them..... www.bluesea.com/articles/527 ....... (BTW, BlueSea has the trademark on the letters ACR in this order, when referring to combiner relays)

      it is designed as a COMBINER relay, and the word" charge" as been adopted because the combiner allows the charge to pass thru it to the combined bank... in itself, an ACR has no charging capabilities on its own, nor does it regulate when or how the charger works... it only "combines" to allow the chargers to charge BOTH BANKS AT ONCE (this is why a higher amp charger may be beneficial) and still keep the banks isolated from one another... BELIEVE IT OR NOT, your choice.

      secondly, it makes not a whit of difference if the shore power charger is on when the alternator is working, and/or if the solar charger is connected and working... NOT A BIT.... UNLESS the shore power charger was designed without an ability to "sense", in which case its NOT a smart charger. (even the "dumb" regulator in the alternator knows when to limit or stop the output of the alternator)
      when a "regulated" charging source(s) is connected in (no matter where it comes from) and sees the battery as full, it will regulate itself to do what needs to be done (float).... and when there is multiple charge sources attached, there will always be one that is more dominant that the others, so it will continue to charge the bank until it also sees the bank as full, and it will regulate itself to float...
      "dominant", as used here, only means a charger that is a bit slower to sense and so it will almost always be the one doing the charging when multiple charge sources are connected and active, as the faster sensing chargers will sense the voltage is high enough and will shut down...

      so there really is no need to switch about and change all your charging sources on a sunny day when you are plugged in at the dock and want to start the engine... its just not necessary, and no equipment damage or fires are going to happen either way...

      thirdly... the ACR in the system DOES NOT cause the charger to charge the first bank completely, BEFORE it will open and allow charge to go to the second bank...... when the acr sees a charge input, within a minute or two it combines to allow ALL the batteries in BOTH banks to charge as needed (and so, if the charger is capable of giving an "equalize" charge, it takes care of ALL the batteries at once)
      then, when the charging source is removed, the combiner will remain combined for an undetermined amount of time OR UNTIL it senses the slightest drop in voltage from either bank, in which case it disconnects immediately.. and stays disconnected until it sees a charge voltage again

      fourthly... if the charger/combiner "all in one unit" you have really works as you think you understand it to,, then it isnt taking care of your banks as well a dedicated combiner relay could...


      Like I said in an earlier reply, a person can do it however they want to on their own boat, and it doesnt even have to be ABYC compliant... as long as it works and doesnt cause safety issues, its perfectly fine... anyone/everyone sometimes chooses their word carelessly, without thought or mistakenly, but when one feels a need to put down or criticize a contributing poster, then they need to rethink their approach and go back to school and get up to speed on what they THINK they are talking about... or at the very least, ASK for clarification on the subject . I have offered nothing except facts.. if anyone wants to check them for their accuracy, they will see any advice I may have offered could save them a step or two in maintaining their system, and at the very least, take any "thought" out of it (switching the switches, plugging and unplugging, or any other worry or wonder) after the acr is installed as it was intended by design. .. but I dont expect anyone to do anything they dont want to, no matter if they are right or wrong.... as long as we still have our american freedom, we have choices.
      Wisdom is nothing more than an acute awareness of how much we DONT know, combinded with a lot of experience.....


      NU LIBERTE'
      Salem, OR

      1989 Bayliner 2556 Convertible
      5.7 OMC Cobra - 15.5x11 prop
      N2K equipped throughout..
      2014 Ram 3500 crew cab, 6.7 Cummins
      2007 M-3705 SLC weekend warrior, 5th wheel
      '04 Polaris Sportsman 700 -- '05 Polaris Sportsman 500 HO
      Heavy Equipment Repair and Specialty Welding

      Comment


        #33
        Centerline2,

        mind commenting on my last post with your opinion? Would like to know. I do understand that my ACR either combines or not...there is no way given the wiring scheme to cut out the battery with the charger or alternator leads.

        maybe you and Douggy should PM each other...
        Bayliner 195 Bowrider 2013 4.3l 220hp MPI
        Alpha 1, Gen II
        2012 Toyota Highlander V6 4wd with tow package
        Albany, Ohio

        MMSI: 338234042


        Beware the men of measured merriment
        (Sinclair Lewis, Arrowsmith, paraphrased)

        Comment


          #34
          Originally posted by Nickdixon View Post
          Centerline2,

          mind commenting on my last post with your opinion? Would like to know. I do understand that my ACR either combines or not...there is no way given the wiring scheme to cut out the battery with the charger or alternator leads..
          according to how I read your previous post, it would seem you understand perfectly what should be done...

          there is no need for a switch in the ground wire with what you have.... I dont know if you have a single or dual output charger but when using an acr, it doesnt matter. connect 1 or both output leads to the same battery, and if at all possible the output leads should be connected to the same bank that the alternator output is connected to.... AND its recommended that all charge sources connect to the house bank, as its the bank that usually needs the most charge put in it, the most often. the start battery very seldom needs more than just a few amps put back in it.

          when the engine is running, the acr combines to charge all the batteries evenly.... when the engine is off and shorepower is connected and the shorepower charger is on and working, the acr does the same thing.....
          if the shore power is connected AND the engine is running, the dominant charger will take over while the less dominant charger sees a good charge in the system (as the dominant charger is continuing to supply its high charge current) and so the less dominant charger will shut down thinking the system is topped off.... if the dominant charger happens to be the alternator when the engine is running, and the engine gets shut off, it will not take but a few seconds and the shorepower charger will sense that the voltage has suddenly dropped and is low, and will again continue its charging.. when it again senses the banks are full, the charger will return to float mode.

          two charge sources connected on to the same battery is not new, not wrong, not abnormal, and not unsafe... a lot of twin engine boats have an alternator on both engines, wired into the system to give redundancy and dependability of the system... but there are other ways they get connected in to the system also.... one can never assume how they are wired in.
          Last edited by Centerline2; 02-04-2018, 11:26 AM. Reason: punctuation.


          NU LIBERTE'
          Salem, OR

          1989 Bayliner 2556 Convertible
          5.7 OMC Cobra - 15.5x11 prop
          N2K equipped throughout..
          2014 Ram 3500 crew cab, 6.7 Cummins
          2007 M-3705 SLC weekend warrior, 5th wheel
          '04 Polaris Sportsman 700 -- '05 Polaris Sportsman 500 HO
          Heavy Equipment Repair and Specialty Welding

          Comment


            #35
            Douggy, please read my post #27 carefully. Paraphrasing, I stated that "if indeed this is a so-called multi-output charger with a built-in ACR (VSR) such that it can sense charging by an external source (e.g. alternator) on either side and combine the two outputs together" then, from an electrical stand-point it is same as using an external ACR with a single output charger. However, I went on to state that, again paraphrasing, "if only the VSR part has failed, you still need to send the entire charger for repair". Furthermore, using an external ACR gives us the ability to set the ACR to combine MANUALLY or in AUTO mode, or to force-it to remain OFF even if one side may be charging. For example, if you develop a problem with one battery you may prefer to NOT combine the two batteries as that may damage the other battery as well. The OFF mode also allows us to safely/securely separate the two batteries so work can be performed on one, without worrying that the ACR may suddenly go into the combine mode with potential sparks and/or other unwanted effects.

            I finally stated, "each to his own", and I repeat it here.

            Safe boating,
            Retired, computer expert / executive
            Bayliner 285 Cruiser / Mercruiser QSD 4.2L 320 HP Diesel
            Live in the Bay Area, CA, USA, boat in Turkey
            D-Marin @ Turgutreis in Bodrum/Turkey
            bdervisoglu8@gmail.com
            bulent@pacbell.net

            Comment


              #36
              Hey Dennis - this article was the one I was looking for and no, it doesn't exactly answer your questions but it does get pretty close . . . . at least, a lot closer than what some opinions might think. It's a bit long on the read but I really like the information and think it's spot "ON". Here it is: https://marinehowto.com/installing-a...ttery-charger/ A lot of the info he quotes is pretty carefully researched (I believe) and come from the manufacturers info and suggestions. Need to read it thoroughly and then you can interpret it to your specific issues. Take care.

              I would hope that a lot of people would read this article. The results could be very beneficial.
              1998 Avanti 3685 - "Dad's Dream" w 454 Mercs - just a rockin' an'a rollin'
              Former - "Home Aweigh" 2003 - 2452 Bayliner Cierra Classic Hardtop Cruiser
              WQQM835 MMSI: 338147209
              James H. Stradling

              Comment


                #37
                Originally posted by Dadrock33 View Post
                this article was the one I was looking for and think it's spot "ON". Here it is: https://marinehowto.com/installing-a...ttery-charger/ A lot of the info is carefully researched and come from the manufacturers info and suggestions.

                I would hope that a lot of people would read this article. The results could be very beneficial.
                Thanks for posting the link Dadrock.
                this is good information for everyone who cares about their batteries and wants to understand how to charge them properly to get the most potential out of them...



                NU LIBERTE'
                Salem, OR

                1989 Bayliner 2556 Convertible
                5.7 OMC Cobra - 15.5x11 prop
                N2K equipped throughout..
                2014 Ram 3500 crew cab, 6.7 Cummins
                2007 M-3705 SLC weekend warrior, 5th wheel
                '04 Polaris Sportsman 700 -- '05 Polaris Sportsman 500 HO
                Heavy Equipment Repair and Specialty Welding

                Comment

                Working...
                X