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Dual Pro Charging Systems charger with Blue Seas ACR

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    #16
    Interesting read.. And on a level I can follow and understand. but I'm a bit confused Thought the ACR was going to be a good thing but.... Don't want to "hijack the thread" so I'll make a new post ( I'll title it "ACR DISCONNECT") after while. If you wouldn't mind , I'd be grateful for comments/ advice. Thanks
    Dave
    N.C. Boater, fresh and salt water. New to boating in 2009
    1990 Sunbridge 2655 "One Particular Harbour"
    5.7 Mercruiser Alpha 1 Gen 1
    Past:
    1995 SeaPro 210 C/C "Hydro-Therapy"
    Mariner 150
    Towing with:
    2002 Ford F 350 7.3L Super Duty
    West of Hickory NC

    Comment


      #17
      Originally posted by HueyCrew View Post
      Interesting read.. And on a level I can follow and understand. but I'm a bit confused Thought the ACR was going to be a good thing but.... Don't want to "hijack the thread" so I'll make a new post ( I'll title it "ACR DISCONNECT") after while. If you wouldn't mind , I'd be grateful for comments/ advice. Thanks
      im not sure its hijacking, as it is within the discussion of the thread... but it IS a different question on the same subject...

      the links Solandri provided explains a lot... I have installed the bluesea acr unit on several boats (2 with solar panels), and 2 motorhomes, and have never had an issue with interference between chargers... its a rare occurrence, but when one has a charger that can have the algorithm and/or the absorption voltage changed, then it could cause interference when other sources are connected into the system and trying to work...
      on the bluesea acr, the small green wire that connects to only ONE of the batteries can have a toggle switch installed so it can be switched off and not allow the acr to combine.... there is a diagram on how to wire in a relay to make this an automatic procedure if the interference is a chronic problem in the system....


      NU LIBERTE'
      Salem, OR

      1989 Bayliner 2556 Convertible
      5.7 OMC Cobra - 15.5x11 prop
      N2K equipped throughout..
      2014 Ram 3500 crew cab, 6.7 Cummins
      2007 M-3705 SLC weekend warrior, 5th wheel
      '04 Polaris Sportsman 700 -- '05 Polaris Sportsman 500 HO
      Heavy Equipment Repair and Specialty Welding

      Comment


        #18
        Originally posted by Centerline2 View Post

        im not sure its hijacking, as it is within the discussion of the thread... but it IS a different question on the same subject...

        the links Solandri provided explains a lot... I have installed the bluesea acr unit on several boats (2 with solar panels), and 2 motorhomes, and have never had an issue with interference between chargers... its a rare occurrence, but when one has a charger that can have the algorithm and/or the absorption voltage changed, then it could cause interference when other sources are connected into the system and trying to work...
        on the bluesea acr, the small green wire that connects to only ONE of the batteries can have a toggle switch installed so it can be switched off and not allow the acr to combine.... there is a diagram on how to wire in a relay to make this an automatic procedure if the interference is a chronic problem in the system....
        I just got mine out of the closet and studied it. No green wire. Been quite a while since I've looked at it and my so I'll include a picture and a separate post. Still value y'alls input. I tend to overthink electrical systems suffer from way TMI before I step away....
        Dave
        N.C. Boater, fresh and salt water. New to boating in 2009
        1990 Sunbridge 2655 "One Particular Harbour"
        5.7 Mercruiser Alpha 1 Gen 1
        Past:
        1995 SeaPro 210 C/C "Hydro-Therapy"
        Mariner 150
        Towing with:
        2002 Ford F 350 7.3L Super Duty
        West of Hickory NC

        Comment


          #19
          Originally posted by HueyCrew View Post

          I just got mine out of the closet and studied it. No green wire. Been quite a while since I've looked at it and my so I'll include a picture and a separate post. Still value y'alls input. I tend to overthink electrical systems suffer from way TMI before I step away....
          oops, I forgot... you have to add a green (or whatever color you want) wire to the spade terminal of the acr marked ground (the spade terminal on the left).... without this wire connected, the combiner wont trip and combine the batts...


          NU LIBERTE'
          Salem, OR

          1989 Bayliner 2556 Convertible
          5.7 OMC Cobra - 15.5x11 prop
          N2K equipped throughout..
          2014 Ram 3500 crew cab, 6.7 Cummins
          2007 M-3705 SLC weekend warrior, 5th wheel
          '04 Polaris Sportsman 700 -- '05 Polaris Sportsman 500 HO
          Heavy Equipment Repair and Specialty Welding

          Comment


            #20
            I have an "ACR Disconnect" installed on my boat, with a bypass switch. After a while of experimentation I decided to disable it (bypass) as I believe a single output charger (same as a single output alternator) in conjunction with an ACR is the best solution. We can say nay things in favor or against this but my experience tells me this is the best solution.

            Good luck
            Retired, computer expert / executive
            Bayliner 285 Cruiser / Mercruiser QSD 4.2L 320 HP Diesel
            Live in the Bay Area, CA, USA, boat in Turkey
            D-Marin @ Turgutreis in Bodrum/Turkey
            bdervisoglu8@gmail.com
            bulent@pacbell.net

            Comment


              #21
              Originally posted by MonteVista View Post
              I have an "ACR Disconnect" installed on my boat, with a bypass switch. After a while of experimentation I decided to disable it (bypass) as I believe a single output charger (same as a single output alternator) in conjunction with an ACR is the best solution. We can say nay things in favor or against this but my experience tells me this is the best solution.

              Good luck
              that is how most will find the acr to work in their battery system. perfect without any need for over complicating it...
              but sometimes, people who do have adjustable chargers that they have set to a custom charge profile may have a problem, and the switch or relay is a quick and easy work-around to solve the problem.
              the people who have the ability to set up a custom charge profile has the ability to easily understand the why and how to wire up the necessary work-around ... if it is necessary.


              NU LIBERTE'
              Salem, OR

              1989 Bayliner 2556 Convertible
              5.7 OMC Cobra - 15.5x11 prop
              N2K equipped throughout..
              2014 Ram 3500 crew cab, 6.7 Cummins
              2007 M-3705 SLC weekend warrior, 5th wheel
              '04 Polaris Sportsman 700 -- '05 Polaris Sportsman 500 HO
              Heavy Equipment Repair and Specialty Welding

              Comment


                #22
                Regarding the ACR disconnect...

                First off an ACR replaces the need for multi output chargers. If the goal is to charge your house bank from your engine bank, or to maintain a charge on your engine bank from your house bank, the ACR is in my opinion the best solution.

                Here’s why... The ACR will enable any charging source that you have to keep all ACR connected battery banks charged. Engine alternator, batery charger, etc... While your battery charger might be multi bank capable, your engine alternator is not.

                My recommendation is to use one battery charger to charge one battery bank and use the ACR to enable charging on the rest. If I had a dual bank charger I would not use the dual bank feature, or I would not use the ACR.

                I think that adding the circutry for a ACR disconnect unnecessarily complicates your charging system and adds another single point of failure.

                Reading the article from ACR I see that as a way to solve the issue if you already have a dual bank setup and want to add an ACR. I see it more as an ACR sales tool than anything else.

                KEVIN SANDERS
                4788 LISAS WAY
                SEWARD, ALASKA

                Comment


                  #23
                  I have three battery banks on board and a three bank BlueSeas charger. Each battery bank is wired to it’s own charge connection so that the charger can optimize each bank.

                  I also have an ACR between each starting bank and the house bank. A total of two ACR’s. When I’m on shore power and the batteries are being charged I simply turn the ACR’s off.

                  When I’m out on the water the engines are running the ACR’s are set to AUTO. The engines charge the starting batteries and once the starting battery/s are fully charged charge power goes to the house bank from the engine/s. In general after starting the engine/s, the house bank starts receiving charge within minutes of engine starts.

                  Switching the ACR‘s from off to automatic is just part of my engine start up routine. And then back to off when we get in and tie up.
                  Jim McNeely
                  New Hope a 2004 Bayliner 305 Sunbridge Express Cruiser
                  Twin 5.7s with Bravo2 drives
                  Brighton, Michigan USA
                  MMSI # 367393410

                  Comment


                    #24
                    Originally posted by JimMc View Post
                    I have three battery banks on board and a three bank BlueSeas charger. Each battery bank is wired to it’s own charge connection so that the charger can optimize each bank.

                    I also have an ACR between each starting bank and the house bank. A total of two ACR’s. When I’m on shore power and the batteries are being charged I simply turn the ACR’s off.

                    When I’m out on the water the engines are running the ACR’s are set to AUTO. The engines charge the starting batteries and once the starting battery/s are fully charged charge power goes to the house bank from the engine/s. In general after starting the engine/s, the house bank starts receiving charge within minutes of engine starts.

                    Switching the ACR‘s from off to automatic is just part of my engine start up routine. And then back to off when we get in and tie up.
                    what you describe is in no way wrong, but only more thought and more motions than are needed if one has the acr(s) and charger set up to allow it to be a full functioning "automatic" system... with only the normal routine maintenance required..
                    but when its not set up to be fully automatic, SOMEONE has to throw the switches :-)

                    the "automatic" part of the automatic combiner relays will allow the charger to perfectly do what its programmed to do automatically with out need for manual switching, when the charger leads are all connected to the same post.... it will allow the proper charge, AND if the charger is capable, it will still equalize all the banks when its time....

                    the acr makes a multiple output charger unnecessary, and in some cases undesirable. the only reason to need other switches in the system is when the outputs of the charger, which re on different banks and connected together by combiner relays, interfere with each others charge output/profile... and this can be eliminated by connecting all outputs together, which can increase the max output of the charger, and will allow it to operate without confusion... the acrs essentially allow the charger see the all the individual banks as one large multiple battery bank, and maintain the batteries all the same way, evenly and at the same time... thats why the charge relay is called an "automatic combiner"....






                    NU LIBERTE'
                    Salem, OR

                    1989 Bayliner 2556 Convertible
                    5.7 OMC Cobra - 15.5x11 prop
                    N2K equipped throughout..
                    2014 Ram 3500 crew cab, 6.7 Cummins
                    2007 M-3705 SLC weekend warrior, 5th wheel
                    '04 Polaris Sportsman 700 -- '05 Polaris Sportsman 500 HO
                    Heavy Equipment Repair and Specialty Welding

                    Comment


                      #25
                      I ran across this issue last year when I wanted to install a dual bank charger but also wanted acr function. Turns out they make such a charger with acr function built in. It was an easy install and it works great!
                      2003 Bayliner 245
                      2007 Sedona F21

                      Comment


                        #26
                        Originally posted by Douggy View Post
                        I ran across this issue last year when I wanted to install a dual bank charger but also wanted acr function. Turns out they make such a charger with acr function built in. It was an easy install and it works great!
                        if only they would have designed it for two auxiliary charge inputs (alternator and solar) it could be the perfect charger.....



                        NU LIBERTE'
                        Salem, OR

                        1989 Bayliner 2556 Convertible
                        5.7 OMC Cobra - 15.5x11 prop
                        N2K equipped throughout..
                        2014 Ram 3500 crew cab, 6.7 Cummins
                        2007 M-3705 SLC weekend warrior, 5th wheel
                        '04 Polaris Sportsman 700 -- '05 Polaris Sportsman 500 HO
                        Heavy Equipment Repair and Specialty Welding

                        Comment


                          #27
                          Originally posted by Douggy View Post
                          I ran across this issue last year when I wanted to install a dual bank charger but also wanted acr function. Turns out they make such a charger with acr function built in. It was an easy install and it works great!
                          I don't get it!!! If it is a dual-output charger it means the outputs are independent, not combined. If it has a built-in ACR functionality and the ACR kicks in when one output is in the "charge" mode and the other is in "storage" mode (or whatever their terminology is for these states) then the battery in the storage mode would still be charging when the ACR kicks in! In my opinion, single output charger (put all the oomph behind a single output) and and an ACR is the way to go.

                          The only advantage for a multi-output charger with built-in ACR (must be between each pair, 2 ACR's for 3-outputs) is if the charger can somehow detect that an external source (such as an alternator) is active so that the charger remains inactive, except for kicking in the ACRs.

                          I'd rather use a single output charger with an external ACR(s). They used to make manual reflex camera's (Zenith) that had a built-in light meter so you didn't need to carry a separate light meter to measure ambient light to decide what aperture/time setting you should use. This seemed fine until the built-in light meter failed at which point you had to return the entire camera for service.

                          Each to his own.
                          Retired, computer expert / executive
                          Bayliner 285 Cruiser / Mercruiser QSD 4.2L 320 HP Diesel
                          Live in the Bay Area, CA, USA, boat in Turkey
                          D-Marin @ Turgutreis in Bodrum/Turkey
                          bdervisoglu8@gmail.com
                          bulent@pacbell.net

                          Comment


                            #28
                            Originally posted by MonteVista View Post

                            I don't get it!!! If it is a dual-output charger it means the outputs are independent, not combined. If it has a built-in ACR functionality and the ACR kicks in when one output is in the "charge" mode and the other is in "storage" mode (or whatever their terminology is for these states) then the battery in the storage mode would still be charging when the ACR kicks in! In my opinion, single output charger (put all the oomph behind a single output) and and an ACR is the way to go.

                            The only advantage for a multi-output charger with built-in ACR (must be between each pair, 2 ACR's for 3-outputs) is if the charger can somehow detect that an external source (such as an alternator) is active so that the charger remains inactive, except for kicking in the ACRs.

                            I'd rather use a single output charger with an external ACR(s). They used to make manual reflex camera's (Zenith) that had a built-in light meter so you didn't need to carry a separate light meter to measure ambient light to decide what aperture/time setting you should use. This seemed fine until the built-in light meter failed at which point you had to return the entire camera for service.

                            Each to his own.
                            dont feel too bad, as there are a lot of people who really "dont get it",,, which is why they connect the dual outputs from their charger to the individual banks, and STILL think they need an acr, or that one will help... but it wont. its either an acr with all charge sources connected together on one bank, so the acr can do its magic, or no acr in the system and let the multiple output charger do its magic...

                            but in a nutshell, its basically a single output smart charger going thru its own built in acr type device, and the dual leads are the wires going to the individual banks.... in the same way a standalone acr would need wires going to the individual banks... the only difference is, it is all built together, AND has an input to connect the engine alternator so that its gets dispersed thru the its built in acr also... which, if it is an acr like the "normal" ones, the alt wire could remain connected to one bank, and still charge the second bank thru the acr when the engine is running... which may be how it works, but I dont know the charger that intimately....

                            my opinion is that it may work well as long as it works, but like a gps with a sounder built in, and all the n2k devices reading out the same screen, when it fails, the whole darn thing becomes a wad of junk thats in the way..... where as, with a stand alone acr and a stand alone shore power charger, either one can go down and the system still works fine from one of the other charge sources....


                            NU LIBERTE'
                            Salem, OR

                            1989 Bayliner 2556 Convertible
                            5.7 OMC Cobra - 15.5x11 prop
                            N2K equipped throughout..
                            2014 Ram 3500 crew cab, 6.7 Cummins
                            2007 M-3705 SLC weekend warrior, 5th wheel
                            '04 Polaris Sportsman 700 -- '05 Polaris Sportsman 500 HO
                            Heavy Equipment Repair and Specialty Welding

                            Comment


                              #29
                              Originally posted by MonteVista View Post

                              I don't get it!!! If it is a dual-output charger it means the outputs are independent, not combined. If it has a built-in ACR functionality and the ACR kicks in when one output is in the "charge" mode and the other is in "storage" mode (or whatever their terminology is for these states) then the battery in the storage mode would still be charging when the ACR kicks in! In my opinion, single output charger (put all the oomph behind a single output) and and an ACR is the way to go.

                              The only advantage for a multi-output charger with built-in ACR (must be between each pair, 2 ACR's for 3-outputs) is if the charger can somehow detect that an external source (such as an alternator) is active so that the charger remains inactive, except for kicking in the ACRs.

                              I'd rather use a single output charger with an external ACR(s). They used to make manual reflex camera's (Zenith) that had a built-in light meter so you didn't need to carry a separate light meter to measure ambient light to decide what aperture/time setting you should use. This seemed fine until the built-in light meter failed at which point you had to return the entire camera for service.

                              Each to his own.
                              It works just the same as a boat with on-board charger and a separate acr circuit, this dual bank charger just incorporates the acr circuit on the charger as a add-on module. It works very well and I verified it's operation. It works as advertised.
                              2003 Bayliner 245
                              2007 Sedona F21

                              Comment


                                #30
                                Originally posted by Centerline2 View Post

                                dont feel too bad, as there are a lot of people who really "dont get it",,, which is why they connect the dual outputs from their charger to the individual banks, and STILL think they need an acr, or that one will help... but it wont. its either an acr with all charge sources connected together on one bank, so the acr can do its magic, or no acr in the system and let the multiple output charger do its magic...

                                but in a nutshell, its basically a single output smart charger going thru its own built in acr type device, and the dual leads are the wires going to the individual banks.... in the same way a standalone acr would need wires going to the individual banks... the only difference is, it is all built together, AND has an input to connect the engine alternator so that its gets dispersed thru the its built in acr also... which, if it is an acr like the "normal" ones, the alt wire could remain connected to one bank, and still charge the second bank thru the acr when the engine is running... which may be how it works, but I dont know the charger that intimately....

                                my opinion is that it may work well as long as it works, but like a gps with a sounder built in, and all the n2k devices reading out the same screen, when it fails, the whole darn thing becomes a wad of junk thats in the way..... where as, with a stand alone acr and a stand alone shore power charger, either one can go down and the system still works fine from one of the other charge sources....
                                You apparently "don't get it". You install an acr when you want your alternator to be capable of charging multiple battery banks. You could just use a MBSS but the "A" in ACR means "Auto" and "CR" means "Charge Relay" where the acr circuit detects the charge status of the main (start) battery bank under charge from the alternator and switches the alternator output to the 2nd (house) battery bank if the Main (start) battery bank is in the fully charged state.

                                When your boat engine is on you don't want your AC battery charger on, no matter if it is a single , dual bank, acr installed or not.

                                If you have a acr and you want to charge your batteries with a single bank battery charger then you can by connecting to one of the battery banks and it will charge that first battery and then the acr will switch to the other battery bank after the first battery bank has reached full charge state.

                                My duel bank battery charger has a acr function module that is only active when the boat engine is on and the battery charger if off. This allows the engine alternator to first charge the main (start) battery bank first and then switches to the 2nd battery bank (house) once the main (start) battery is in the fully charged state.

                                When I want to charge both batteries using the on-board dual bank charger, I first make sure the boat engine is off, then plug in (ac) the dual bank charger and it does it's job as a normal smart dual bank battery charger.
                                2003 Bayliner 245
                                2007 Sedona F21

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