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Dual Pro Charging Systems charger with Blue Seas ACR

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    Dual Pro Charging Systems charger with Blue Seas ACR

    I just bought a dual charger to install in my boat, a 195 bowrider. I have two batteries connected with an ACR so that when I'm running the engine, I recharge both batteries. I bought the dual charger because of its dual nature and float feature to prevent overcharging. But now I'm thinking about how the ACR will interact with it since the ACR basically charges whichever battery needs charging the most. any insights? I also have a Blue Seas 5511E on-off-combine switch that I have not yet installed. I don't really want to have to disconnect battery cables when I'm using the charger. Thanks in advance.
    Bayliner 195 Bowrider 2013 4.3l 220hp MPI
    Alpha 1, Gen II
    2012 Toyota Highlander V6 4wd with tow package
    Albany, Ohio

    MMSI: 338234042

    Less than 225 days until retirement.


    Beware the men of measured merriment
    (Sinclair Lewis, Arrowsmith, paraphrased)

    #2
    Hey Nick - Amazing! I have almost the same situation coming in a few (or more) months when I start to rewire our Avanti 3685. I had originally purchased our Blue Seas ACR to do the dual bank charging on our 2452 but never got around to doing it before she was traded in on our Avanti. I did manage to install the new charger on the 2452 (yes, a two-bank charger) in under the helm seat and had plans for the ACR but that didn't happen. Now I get to do it on the Avanti . . . different boat - same idea though. I bought the item that has the unlatching switch with it with the full intent of "unlatching" the connection between the two banks when we left the boat for the weekend or extended periods of time and had the charger on shore power. I had asked this same question of the Board years back regarding the feasibility of using a one-bank charger since I would have the ACR in the system and most responded with a positive attitude thinking along similar lines. . . there were some who disagreed but don't really remember the reasons. This MAY be more of a project than I should undertake but I'm hoping to get a wiring layout soon (once I find out where to get one ) and have it all planned before the weather breaks in the Spring. As I remember, finding a single bank charger was one of the issues (believe it or not) . . . there's gobs of 2 and 3 and even 4 bank chargers out there. Anyway, I have the hydraulic crimper that I need, just need a few lugs and some cable and hope to start fairly soon. Good luck and keep in touch and maybe you (and others) can answer my questions when the time comes.
    1998 Avanti 3685 - "Dad's Dream" w 454 Mercs - just a rockin' an'a rollin'
    Former - "Home Aweigh" 2003 - 2452 Bayliner Cierra Classic Hardtop Cruiser
    WQQM835 MMSI: 338147209
    James H. Stradling

    Comment


      #3
      You could just hook up one of the battery charger outputs and do just fine.
      Hooking up both battery charger outputs won’t hurt anything, but with the ACR it’s not necessary

      KEVIN SANDERS
      4788 LISAS WAY - SEWARD ALASKA

      Comment


        #4
        I think a foolproof solution would be to use the existing battery switch after I install the new switch to disable the ACR when I'm charging with the new battery charger. There would be a small voltage drop across that switch when the engine is doing the charging but I could arrange for that to be to the house battery.

        in any case, I'm concerned that the ACR only isolates the two batteries when one of them is discharging...that's what the ACR documentation says, anyway. If both of them are being charged even if both are connected to the charger the ACR docs don't say what will happen, as I recall. I don't think anything disastrous will happen, but the "optimum maintenance" feature of the charger may not be operational. Additional thoughts are appreciated. I really want the best of both situations: engine charging both batteries via the ACR when underway and the charger without the ACR when on the trailer or at the dock on shore power (that may never happen and will certainly be rare; this boat doesn't sit in the water for more than a couple days without running).

        Dadrock, are you looking for someone to do a custom schematic for you?
        Bayliner 195 Bowrider 2013 4.3l 220hp MPI
        Alpha 1, Gen II
        2012 Toyota Highlander V6 4wd with tow package
        Albany, Ohio

        MMSI: 338234042

        Less than 225 days until retirement.


        Beware the men of measured merriment
        (Sinclair Lewis, Arrowsmith, paraphrased)

        Comment


          #5
          Originally posted by Dadrock33 View Post
          Hey Nick - Amazing! I have almost the same situation coming in a few (or more) months when I start to rewire our Avanti 3685. I had originally purchased our Blue Seas ACR to do the dual bank charging on our 2452 but never got around to doing it before she was traded in on our Avanti. I did manage to install the new charger on the 2452 (yes, a two-bank charger) in under the helm seat and had plans for the ACR but that didn't happen. Now I get to do it on the Avanti . . . different boat - same idea though. I bought the item that has the unlatching switch with it with the full intent of "unlatching" the connection between the two banks when we left the boat for the weekend or extended periods of time and had the charger on shore power. I had asked this same question of the Board years back regarding the feasibility of using a one-bank charger since I would have the ACR in the system and most responded with a positive attitude thinking along similar lines. . . there were some who disagreed but don't really remember the reasons. This MAY be more of a project than I should undertake but I'm hoping to get a wiring layout soon (once I find out where to get one ) and have it all planned before the weather breaks in the Spring. As I remember, finding a single bank charger was one of the issues (believe it or not) . . . there's gobs of 2 and 3 and even 4 bank chargers out there. Anyway, I have the hydraulic crimper that I need, just need a few lugs and some cable and hope to start fairly soon. Good luck and keep in touch and maybe you (and others) can answer my questions when the time comes.
          so you have a 2 bank charger and you can isolate (unlatch) the two banks whenever you leave the boat. That seems like what I want to do with a battery switch.

          Bayliner 195 Bowrider 2013 4.3l 220hp MPI
          Alpha 1, Gen II
          2012 Toyota Highlander V6 4wd with tow package
          Albany, Ohio

          MMSI: 338234042

          Less than 225 days until retirement.


          Beware the men of measured merriment
          (Sinclair Lewis, Arrowsmith, paraphrased)

          Comment


            #6
            the proper way to connect the charger to a system with an ACR is to connect ALL charging sources to the house bank, as the house bank takes the most abuse and usually needs charging the most, and let the ACR keep the start batt topped up..... the dual feed charger, im not sure what the amperage of the model you have is, but whatever the rating is, you have half of that rating number down each lead... you can either connect one lead to each battery, which will supply the amps in the lead to the individual batteries... OR... you can connect both leads to the same battery to get the full rated amps of the charger into the one battery. almost always, the output of both leads connected together on the same battery is how the charger is rated.

            connecting both charger leads to the house bank would be the proper way for the best performance, when using an ACR.... the alternator feed, the shore power charger, the genset charger and the solar charger should all connect to the same point and let the ACR do its magic....
            any and all of these charging sources are fully regulated, and the dominant charge source at the moment will take over the charging, while the non dominant chargers on th ecircuit will see this as a FULLY charged system and go in to float mode.... there are no worries of one charger damaging another...


            NU LIBERTE'
            Salem, OR

            1989 Bayliner 2556 Convertible
            5.7 OMC Cobra - 15.5x11 prop
            N2K equipped throughout..
            2014 Ram 3500 crew cab, 6.7 Cummins
            2007 M-3705 SLC weekend warrior, 5th wheel
            '04 Polaris Sportsman 700 -- '05 Polaris Sportsman 500 HO
            Heavy Equipment Repair and Specialty Welding

            Comment


              #7
              So the concept of a two bank charger is that there are two separate chgarging leads out of the charger that are isolated from each other when the charger is offline, and so that the total of the two charger leads is equal to the chargers rated capacity.

              If you just hook up one of the charging leads you still get the chargers full rated output capability. Now days it’s kinds tough to buy a battery charger with just one output.

              KEVIN SANDERS
              4788 LISAS WAY - SEWARD ALASKA

              Comment


                #8
                Originally posted by ksanders View Post
                So the concept of a two bank charger is that there are two separate chgarging leads out of the charger that are isolated from each other when the charger is offline, and so that the total of the two charger leads is equal to the chargers rated capacity.

                If you just hook up one of the charging leads you still get the chargers full rated output capability. Now days it’s kinds tough to buy a battery charger with just one output.
                thanks, Kevin. One way or another I'll get it to work. Therapy!

                Bayliner 195 Bowrider 2013 4.3l 220hp MPI
                Alpha 1, Gen II
                2012 Toyota Highlander V6 4wd with tow package
                Albany, Ohio

                MMSI: 338234042

                Less than 225 days until retirement.


                Beware the men of measured merriment
                (Sinclair Lewis, Arrowsmith, paraphrased)

                Comment


                  #9
                  Originally posted by ksanders View Post
                  So the concept of a two bank charger is that there are two separate chgarging leads out of the charger that are isolated from each other when the charger is offline, and so that the total of the two charger leads is equal to the chargers rated capacity.
                  Isn't the "smart charger" dual output logic such that it can bias the output amps so each battery is given what it needs ?
                  Example: 1 battery near full charge (3rd stage,float) and 1 that has been drained low as in a trolling or inverter use situation ( all 3 stages)?
                  " WET EVER "
                  1989 2459 TROPHY OFFSHORE 5.8L COBRA / SX
                  mmsi 338108404
                  mmsi 338124956
                  "I started with nothing and still have most of it left"

                  It's only a rock, get over it.

                  Comment


                    #10

                    Kevin is correct 2bank 20amp charger would be 10amp per bank.
                    each bank will go through the 3 stage process.
                    Joon, Kathy, Jaden & Tristan
                    Uniflite 42 AC, DD 671N
                    93 3058 sold
                    92 2855 (day boat)
                    91 Fourwinns 205 (lake boat)
                    Longbranch WA
                    Life is Good

                    Comment


                      #11
                      Originally posted by ksanders View Post

                      If you just hook up one of the charging leads you still get the chargers full rated output capability. Now days it’s kinds tough to buy a battery charger with just one output.
                      a dual or triple leg charger has "smart" charging capability, independently, on each leg.. but the advertised rating of the charger is DIVIDED between the number of output legs.... so if one wants the full charger capacity to charge only one battery, all of the legs need to be combined on the one battery. to get the full rated capability.. this is the way its always been, BUT i suppose its possible that a manufacture has started rating their chargers PER LEG...

                      this is why when someone has a dual or triple leg charger, and when they upgrade to an ACR to combine the charging of the multiple banks, ALL legs of the charger get combined with all other charging sources to the same bank.... which is recommended to be the house bank.


                      NU LIBERTE'
                      Salem, OR

                      1989 Bayliner 2556 Convertible
                      5.7 OMC Cobra - 15.5x11 prop
                      N2K equipped throughout..
                      2014 Ram 3500 crew cab, 6.7 Cummins
                      2007 M-3705 SLC weekend warrior, 5th wheel
                      '04 Polaris Sportsman 700 -- '05 Polaris Sportsman 500 HO
                      Heavy Equipment Repair and Specialty Welding

                      Comment


                        #12
                        Originally posted by dktool View Post

                        Isn't the "smart charger" dual output logic such that it can bias the output amps so each battery is given what it needs ?
                        Example: 1 battery near full charge (3rd stage,float) and 1 that has been drained low as in a trolling or inverter use situation ( all 3 stages)?
                        yes... to the extent of its capability per leg..... but its capability is only 10amps per leg. so a "dual output" 20amp charger cannot not put its full 20 amps down one leg to charge the low battery, but the 10amps will be regulated "smartly" to bring the battery up to full charge in the most efficient manner...



                        NU LIBERTE'
                        Salem, OR

                        1989 Bayliner 2556 Convertible
                        5.7 OMC Cobra - 15.5x11 prop
                        N2K equipped throughout..
                        2014 Ram 3500 crew cab, 6.7 Cummins
                        2007 M-3705 SLC weekend warrior, 5th wheel
                        '04 Polaris Sportsman 700 -- '05 Polaris Sportsman 500 HO
                        Heavy Equipment Repair and Specialty Welding

                        Comment


                          #13
                          Originally posted by Centerline2 View Post

                          a dual or triple leg charger has "smart" charging capability, independently, on each leg.. but the advertised rating of the charger is DIVIDED between the number of output legs.... so if one wants the full charger capacity to charge only one battery, all of the legs need to be combined on the one battery. to get the full rated capability.. this is the way its always been, BUT i suppose its possible that a manufacture has started rating their chargers PER LEG...

                          this is why when someone has a dual or triple leg charger, and when they upgrade to an ACR to combine the charging of the multiple banks, ALL legs of the charger get combined with all other charging sources to the same bank.... which is recommended to be the house bank.
                          That is not always the case. Some chargers divide the output and some do not.

                          The Blue Seas 40 amp charger can output all 40 amps on one battery with one connection. The Xantrex truecharge2 as well. The Xantrex truecharge2 can even parallel two chargers together to make a larger charger, and add redundancy to the mix.

                          The Samlex is actually three chargers, so it divides as you indicated, as are some other brands.

                          It pays to carefully read the manual and keep in mind the intendended installation prior to buying a charger to make sure you are getting what you want.

                          KEVIN SANDERS
                          4788 LISAS WAY - SEWARD ALASKA

                          Comment


                            #14
                            Originally posted by dktool View Post

                            Isn't the "smart charger" dual output logic such that it can bias the output amps so each battery is given what it needs ?
                            Example: 1 battery near full charge (3rd stage,float) and 1 that has been drained low as in a trolling or inverter use situation ( all 3 stages)?
                            Not all, but some newer smart charger
                            with Distributed battery technology will...
                            It Can deliver 100% of available amps to any one bank if needed
                            Joon, Kathy, Jaden & Tristan
                            Uniflite 42 AC, DD 671N
                            93 3058 sold
                            92 2855 (day boat)
                            91 Fourwinns 205 (lake boat)
                            Longbranch WA
                            Life is Good

                            Comment


                              #15
                              Originally posted by Nickdixon View Post
                              I bought the dual charger because of its dual nature and float feature to prevent overcharging. But now I'm thinking about how the ACR will interact with it since the ACR basically charges whichever battery needs charging the most. any insights?
                              This issue came up when I asked my battery question.

                              https://www.baylinerownersclub.org/f...ry-bank-wiring

                              The ACR is designed to disconnect (cease functioning and isolate the two battery banks) if you disconnect its negative terminal. So if you've got a dual charger, you want to use this feature to disable the ACR whenever you're connected to shore power and using the charger. You can do this with a manual switch, or construct an automatic relay as explained here:

                              https://www.bluesea.com/support/arti...r_Interference
                              1994 2556, 350 MAG MPI Horizon, Bravo 2

                              Comment

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