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    Water on pistons-gctid401832

    Hello BOC,

    2001 Ciera 2455

    5.0L/Alpha 1/gen II RWC

    Hours ~ 1600

    I do about 1000 miles a season in the Chesapeake Bay. Starting in early April, ending in late December.

    I slip and trailer the boat. I pull it several times a season for maintenance which includes a salt away flush. Winterization includes filling the motor with Banfrost 2000.

    This spring I was having intermittent temp alarms and paranormal temperature guage swings. My IR temp guage indicated risers were OK. After the spring fishing season, I took off the exhaust manifolds, new in 2008, inspected and cleaned them. Didn't notice any rust lines inside the exhaust manifolds. Also put in a new impeller which looked really good. While I had them off I did a compression check and noticed water in the #3 cylinder. The manifolds appeared serviceable, so I reinstalled them with new merc gaskets.

    Boat ran great, no more alarms I did probably 75 miles of cruising on her.

    I prepped for an 80+ mile run from Solomons to Baltimore the last WE in June for a raft up with friends. Stopped in Chesapeake beach for gas and then hauled @ss up to B-more. The boat ran great. As I pulled into raft up she died, motor wouldn't turn.

    Next day, I pulled the plugs and water was in cylinder # 4 & 6 now. I was able to start it on Saturday. Went leave on Sunday and it was tight again. Called towboat US and had her towed to Sue Creek. Took off the exhaust manifolds and did a compression test. Water continually shot out of # 4 until I drained the block. Do recall compression in all cylinders though. Ordered parts.. just got it home Wednesday. Parts, complete merc manifold set and intake mani and associated gaskets.

    Dipstick oil is fine, pulled the intake manifold. It's a milky mess in there. Cleaned everthing up and that is where it sits now. Ready to throw it back together tomorrow but thought I'd post here and gain insight from a trusted resource.

    I figured that if was going the route of a rebuild, I'd want new mani's anyway so $ wasn't ill spent.

    Anyone been here done that?

    I appreciate the input, in a perfect world I'm back on the water by Monday ;-)

    #2
    Been there to many times, and each time it was a failed headed head gasket.
    " WET EVER "
    1989 2459 TROPHY OFFSHORE 5.8L COBRA / SX
    mmsi 338108404
    mmsi 338124956
    "I started with nothing and still have most of it left"

    Comment


      #3
      Did you check the head gasket? I would have pulled the heads the first time I saw water.

      Comment


        #4
        1600 hours I think a safe bet its the headgasket.
        Port: Sassafras River Georgetown, MD Bayliner 2000 2855 7.4

        http://www.chart.state.md.us/video/v...50fa36c4235c0a

        Comment


          #5
          Hard to say from a keyboard. If you do not suspect exhaust manifolds, head gaskets may be next on the list.

          To know for certain, you'll need to perform a cylinder leak-down test.

          FWIW, with a 5.0L that's been RWC for 1,600 hours, I'd NOT attempt to over-haul this engine.

          Too much risk in over-hauling a RWC engine with these hours, and if she's seen salt water at all, this is all the more reason.

          Instead, I'd begin fresh with an automotive core that has seen E/G it's entire life.

          You're only a 1 or 1.5 boat bucks away from a good 5.7L core.

          You can build a 5.7L as cost effectively as you can build a 5.0L.

          And if you build one yourself, I'd recommend that you steer clear of GM style full dished pistons. There are some great alternatives to this piston, and ones that won't break the bank.

          .
          Rick E. Gresham, Oregon
          2850 Bounty Sedan Flybridge model
          Twin 280 HP 5.7's w/ Closed Cooling
          Volvo Penta DuoProp Drives
          Kohler 4 CZ Gen Set

          Comment


            #6
            Since you are this far, why replace the head gaskets as well?
            Phil, Vicky, Ashleigh & Sydney
            1998 3055 Ciera
            (yes, a 1998)
            Previous boat: 1993 3055
            Dream boat: 70' Azimut or Astondoa 72
            Sea Doo XP
            Sea Doo GTI SE
            Life is short. Boats are cool.
            The family that plays together stays together.
            Vice Commodore: Bellevue Yacht Club

            Comment


              #7
              Thanks everyone, admittedly I'm a tad shy when it comes to pulling the heads.

              Does this pic show a cause to anyone?

              If I'm going into the head and looking at a rebuild, I have other things in the balance that would require me to have the boat surveyed for it's value as it sits.

              Attached files [img]/media/kunena/attachments/vb/705760=29884-water_on_pistons.jpg[/img]

              Comment


                #8
                baycrazy wrote:
                • 1 wrote:
                • Thanks everyone, admittedly I'm a tad shy when it comes to pulling the heads.
                • Does this pic show a cause to anyone?
                • If I'm going into the head and looking at a rebuild, I have other things in the balance that would require me to have the boat surveyed for it's value as it sits.



                • 1 wrote:
                • You can't really mess anything up.

                  Loosen the cylinder heads bolts. Once all are loosened and out, the cylinder head is free to be lifted and removed.

                  They may be stuck a bit.... just gently lift up on them.
                • NOPE.... need much more info and detail.
                • Well, if I may be bold here...... I believe that is the wrong attitude! (no offense!)

                  IMO, when we purchase and own with the attitude that boats are investments (in terms of financial gain or recovery), we begin to fool ourselves. These are rarely investments as such, and are almost always expenses!

                  We just simply use it up in the form of family enjoyment, and divide the cost by the hours/days of use and enjoyment.

                  IOW, try your best to not allow the market value to prevent you from making the correct repairs..........., it will end up causing you ulcers.



                Rick E. Gresham, Oregon
                2850 Bounty Sedan Flybridge model
                Twin 280 HP 5.7's w/ Closed Cooling
                Volvo Penta DuoProp Drives
                Kohler 4 CZ Gen Set

                Comment


                  #9
                  Having never been here before, I didn't put the #1 cylinder at TDC.

                  Reading my Merc manual, it indicates "when servicing all the rocker arm assemblies to put #[email protected] TDC..." guessing I'll have to put it back together again, compression/leak down and run it, and then perhaps tear it back down again.

                  I'll have to confront my cylinder head daemon head on :-)

                  Will update the thread when I jump on it first thing tomorrow.

                  Rick your PM is full, re: #3, it isn't about the $$ it's about valuing marital assets in pursuit of a divorce :-(

                  Comment


                    #10
                    baycrazy wrote:
                    Having never been here before, I didn't put the #1 cylinder at TDC.

                    Reading my Merc manual, it indicates "when servicing all the rocker arm assemblies to put #[email protected] TDC..." guessing I'll have to put it back together again, compression/leak down and run it, and then perhaps tear it back down again.

                    Rick your PM is full, re: #3, it isn't about the $$ it's about valuing marital assets in pursuit of a divorce :-(
                    The Merc info is incomplete :thumb, and I read this all too often.

                    TDC comes around for each crankshaft revolution, and the compression stroke comes around only once for each two crankshaft revolutions.

                    To say "put #[email protected] TDC" is very misleading without further clarification.

                    We need to bring the crankshaft around to #[email protected] TDC at the C/S only. Otherwise, it is a rather meaningless suggestion.

                    No need to do anything other than bring it around to TDC, and look at your #1 cam followers.

                    When you are approaching TDC C/S, both followers will be "down" on the low side of their cams.

                    If you should see that one is high on the cam, turn the crankshaft another 360 degrees.

                    Basically, you have a 50/50 shot at this.

                    Miss it the first time..... do another 360, and align your TDC marks...... and Bingo..... you're there!

                    I'll leave your last comment alone!

                    ,
                    Rick E. Gresham, Oregon
                    2850 Bounty Sedan Flybridge model
                    Twin 280 HP 5.7's w/ Closed Cooling
                    Volvo Penta DuoProp Drives
                    Kohler 4 CZ Gen Set

                    Comment


                      #11
                      baycrazy wrote:
                      Having never been here before, I didn't put the #1 cylinder at TDC.

                      Reading my Merc manual, it indicates "when servicing all the rocker arm assemblies to put #[email protected] TDC..." guessing I'll have to put it back together again, compression/leak down and run it, and then perhaps tear it back down again.

                      I'll have to confront my cylinder head daemon head on :-)

                      Will update the thread when I jump on it first thing tomorrow.

                      Rick your PM is full, re: #3, it isn't about the $$ it's about valuing marital assets in pursuit of a divorce :-(
                      The issue here is when you install the distributor that requires #1 to be TDC all Merc mechanic's know what that means!!!!

                      Comment


                        #12
                        Cliff, I'm not sure what your point is here, but this was just covered.

                        check737 wrote:
                        • 1 wrote:
                        • The issue here is when you install the distributor that requires #1 to be TDC
                        • all Merc mechanic's know what that means!!!!



                        • 1 wrote:
                        • That is correct. It is much easier to begin with #1 cylinder up at TDC but ONLY on the compression stroke.

                          #1 TDC is not precisely the same as #1 TDC C/S.

                          In fact, if we stop at 6* or 8* BTDC C/S, we can even set a BASE advance close enough to fire up on.
                        • I wish that was true, but it is not!

                          I could probably quote a few Auto, Volvo Penta and Merc mechanics who have used the explanation #1 TDC, without mention of C/S.

                          You yourself have just omitted C/S from your explanation above.

                          Remember..... often we're talking to those who are not experienced, and perhaps have not done this before.

                          The ommision of this may confuse these people.

                          See the first paragraph in post #10 again. I have explained just why C/S needs to accompany this.




                        No offense, Cliff, I don't want to upset you. I'm just trying to explain the importance of this for the average person who does not do this routinely.

                        .
                        Rick E. Gresham, Oregon
                        2850 Bounty Sedan Flybridge model
                        Twin 280 HP 5.7's w/ Closed Cooling
                        Volvo Penta DuoProp Drives
                        Kohler 4 CZ Gen Set

                        Comment


                          #13
                          2850Bounty wrote:
                          Cliff, I'm not sure what your point is here, but this was just covered.
                          • 1 wrote:
                          • That is correct. It is much easier to begin with #1 cylinder up at TDC but ONLY on the compression stroke.

                            #1 TDC is not precisely the same as #1 TDC C/S.

                            In fact, if we stop at 6* or 8* BTDC C/S, we can even set a BASE advance close enough to fire up on.
                          • I wish that was true, but it is not!

                            I could probably quote a few Auto, Volvo Penta and Merc mechanics who have used the explanation #1 TDC, without mention of C/S.

                            You yourself have just omitted C/S from your explanation above.

                            Remember..... often we're talking to those who are not experienced, and perhaps have not done this before.

                            The ommision of this may confuse these people.

                            See the first paragraph in post #10 again. I have explained just why C/S needs to accompany this.




                          No offense, Cliff, I don't want to upset you. I'm just trying to explain the importance of this for the average person who does not do this routinely.

                          .
                          As I read it,it was that you needed to be at TDC to remove the heads, nothing about timing was mentioned.

                          He already has the intake off so the distributor is removed.

                          He can go ahead and remove the heads.

                          Rick Did I miss something here?

                          Comment


                            #14
                            Cliff, I don't know if you missed anything or not, and I'm not provoking an arguement here, but I think that this is where it begins:

                            Baycrazy titles his post #9; "Cylinder head removal without having #1 @ TDC"

                            He then says; "Having never been here before, I didn't put the #1 cylinder at TDC."

                            He does go on to say; Reading my Merc manual, it indicates "when servicing all the rocker arm assemblies to put #[email protected] TDC..." guessing I'll have to put it back together again, compression/leak down and run it, and then perhaps tear it back down again."

                            Meanwhile, I'm thinking of ignition distributor, intake manifold and cylinder head removal, and I said; "The Merc info is incomplete , and I read this all too often. TDC comes around for each crankshaft revolution, and the compression stroke comes around only once for each two crankshaft revolutions.

                            To say "put #[email protected] TDC" is very misleading without further clarification...... bla bla bla, and so on"


                            I went on to suggest that he look at the two #1 cylinder cam follows, and suggested that he'll know right then and there which cycle he is on.

                            Perhaps I've misunderstood and there are several issues here for Baycrazy;

                            A. cylinder head removal.... B. servicing all rocker arms... C. a missed leak-down oportunity.

                            None-the-less, most mechanics will typically bring the crankshaft around to #1 TDC, but only upon the Compression Stroke as to make further re-assembly much easier.

                            Make sense?

                            .
                            Rick E. Gresham, Oregon
                            2850 Bounty Sedan Flybridge model
                            Twin 280 HP 5.7's w/ Closed Cooling
                            Volvo Penta DuoProp Drives
                            Kohler 4 CZ Gen Set

                            Comment


                              #15
                              baycrazy wrote:
                              Having never been here before, I didn't put the #1 cylinder at TDC.

                              Reading my Merc manual, it indicates "when servicing all the rocker arm assemblies to put #[email protected] TDC..." guessing I'll have to put it back together again, compression/leak down and run it, and then perhaps tear it back down again.

                              I'll have to confront my cylinder head daemon head on :-)

                              Will update the thread when I jump on it first thing tomorrow.

                              Rick your PM is full, re: #3, it isn't about the $$ it's about valuing marital assets in pursuit of a divorce :-(
                              If you marked the distributor when you removed it and didn't rotate the engine don't worry about TDC remove the heads.

                              Good luck with it being head gaskets.

                              Comment

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