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Propane Tank upgrade to current ABYC standard

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    Propane Tank upgrade to current ABYC standard

    In 11 days my new to me 1997 3788 should arrive in Portland, OR where it will spend the first few months of ownership. The boat will receive lots of TLC as I address the lengthy list on the survey to bring it current on maintenance and get it seaworthy. Currently the boat is 1,000 miles away in So Cal being prepped for transport. I am unable to visit the boat to answer my own questions but I bet some of you can provide answers. My first question has to do with upgrading the propane tank. The tank is up under the console port side on the fly bridge and is a horizontal style tank. I know it is an ASME tank but that is all I know. What are the capacity and dimensions figures? I've seen many pictures of propane lockers being installed aft of the fly bridge seating on a hard top. I am guessing the reason for that is lack of an available horizontal locker that would work in the current tank location. Can someone tell me if there is room on the fly bridge aft of the seating sufficient for a locker without a hard top over the cockpit. Eventually I plan to install a hard cockpit cover but that is at least a couple years out. I believe I will need to address this before the insurance will remove the PORT RISK ASHORE ONLY coverage restriction.
    Tony Bacon,
    Washougal, WA
    Caspian
    1997 3788 Twin Cummins 250hp

    #2
    Hmm.... that's weird. Mine is located in exactly the same location. I have dual valves, solenoid disconnect and overboard ventilation. It's always been deemed adequate (3 surveys now).
    Custom CNC Design And Dash Panels

    iBoatNW

    1980 CHB Europa 42 Trawler- "Honey Badger"

    Comment


      #3
      SomeSailor, is yours a 3788. Over the years the standard has changed. My surveyor indicated that the current setup probably met the standards back in 1997 when the boat was built.
      Tony Bacon,
      Washougal, WA
      Caspian
      1997 3788 Twin Cummins 250hp

      Comment


        #4
        Originally posted by Bacon View Post
        ...My first question has to do with upgrading the propane tank. The tank is up under the console port side on the fly bridge and is a horizontal style tank. I know it is an ASME tank but that is all I know. What are the capacity and dimensions figures? I've seen many pictures of propane lockers being installed aft of the fly bridge seating on a hard top. I am guessing the reason for that is lack of an available horizontal locker that would work in the current tank location. Can someone tell me if there is room on the fly bridge aft of the seating sufficient for a locker without a hard top over the cockpit. Eventually I plan to install a hard cockpit cover but that is at least a couple years out. I believe I will need to address this before the insurance will remove the PORT RISK ASHORE ONLY coverage restriction.
        I personally believe that many Bayliner propane tank installations are marginal at best. Moreover, the ABYC recommendations regarding propane installations (what the insurance companies follow) haven't changed for many years and they were pretty much the same in 1997 as they are today. So Bayliner was well aware of the recommendations when your boat was built. Specifically, the problem with the 3788 installation is inadequate venting and the possibility of leaking propane making its way down the conduit used to run the propane hose to the galley area. Having said that, there are many Bayliners with similar installations that pass surveys. I recommend that you shop for another insurance company and surveyor.

        If you want to make the boat 100% compliant with the ABYC requirements you will need a sealed locker to house the tank, regulator, and solenoid valve. This locker must only open on top, not horizontally. It should also vent overboard. There are no lockers made to fit the horizontal tank on the 3788; so you would need to make a custom one. I originally considered doing this with my 3788. I was going to make a locker that fit under the dash and could be slid out to open the top. I ended up installing a standard propane locker on the hard top.

        To answer your question, the fly bridge of your boat ends immediately behind the aft seating. The only way that you could install a locker there without a hard top would be by fabricating a shelf or brackets that attach to the aft part of the flybridge.








        1999 3788, Cummins 270 "Freedom"
        2013 Boston Whaler 130 SS
        Anacortes, WA

        Comment


        • Bacon
          Bacon commented
          Editing a comment
          Thank you Norton_Rider. I was thinking the same thing, fabricate a locker that slides out. Another thought is to move the tank into one of the settee sections in a custom enclosure but I don't know the depth of that space or the dimensions of the tank. Did you consider that? Another thought is to mount next to the settee. The downsides are that It would interfere with seating is not at all elegance.

        #5
        Tony,

        It's been a long time since I did the mod and I don't remember if the horizontal tank would fit in a settee. It may be too tall. The other problem with the horizontal tank is refilling it. Even though it is exempt from having an Overfill Protection Device many propane dealers do not know this and refuse to fill them. In my case we were getting a hardtop anyway; so I decided to just put a locker there.

        When we bought the boat about four years ago I had a very experience surveyor check the boat out. I saw him physically look at the propane tank installation. He checked the tank for secure mounting and examined the hose fittings, etc. But he did not have any adverse findings regarding the propane installation. This is why I think it may be worthwhile for you to switch insurance companies and surveyors.
        1999 3788, Cummins 270 "Freedom"
        2013 Boston Whaler 130 SS
        Anacortes, WA

        Comment


          #6
          That is encouraging advice. I am definitely switching surveyors, no choice really as the last one was 1000 miles away.

          Thanks.
          Tony Bacon,
          Washougal, WA
          Caspian
          1997 3788 Twin Cummins 250hp

          Comment


            #7
            Originally posted by Bacon View Post
            That is encouraging advice. I am definitely switching surveyors, no choice really as the last one was 1000 miles away.

            Thanks.
            Get someone that's familiar with Bayliner Motoryachts and specifically ask about propane before contracting with them.
            1999 3788, Cummins 270 "Freedom"
            2013 Boston Whaler 130 SS
            Anacortes, WA

            Comment


              #8
              Agree on finding someone else - usually they will note potential "updates" but not put them on the list of things that must be fixed as long as it met the requirements when the boat was built.
              1989 3888
              Nobody gets out alive.

              Comment


                #9
                I have talked to multiple surveyors. The bottom line is that ABYC standard indicates the tank must be in an approved locker that vents outside of the boat below the point of any opening into the boat. I have not found any reasonable way to accomplish that on the fly bridge. I had given thought to placing an enclosure near the seating so it would also serve as a table. I am not sure how I would run the hoses and wiring beneath the deck and over the headliner. If anyone knows anything about that space please comment. I am now considering a small tank installed in the transom locker. The dimensions of the locker are 13 L&W and 12 H, perhaps too large to fit in there. If that won't work then a locker on the swim platform may have to suffice.
                Tony Bacon,
                Washougal, WA
                Caspian
                1997 3788 Twin Cummins 250hp

                Comment


                  #10
                  ABYC is not a regulation - it is a recommendation. Lots of boats (new and old) do not follow all ABYC in all aspects.

                  While technically they are correct about relation to the standard it does not determine insurability in of itself.
                  1989 3888
                  Nobody gets out alive.

                  Comment


                    #11
                    Thanks, kwb. I am going to try that angle with my surveyor. I have purchased a LPG gas detector that will connect to the solenoid. It will shut off the flow if it detects propane in the bilge. Maybe the surveyor will consider that adequate and leave the recommendation to put the tank in an enclosure off of the list.
                    Tony Bacon,
                    Washougal, WA
                    Caspian
                    1997 3788 Twin Cummins 250hp

                    Comment


                      #12
                      I have seen some that are under the flybridge dash panel to one side or the other and next to a scupper that drains overboard. No locker. One recently passed inspection by USCG auxiliary (courtesy inspection) and got the sticker for having passed. Don't know if that is the right way or not, but it did pass. The tank was secured firmly, and had a sniffer shut-off device wired in.

                      Greg
                      Newport, Oregon
                      South Beach Marina
                      1986 3270 with twin 110 HP Hino diesels. Name of boat "Mr. Darcy"
                      Past work history: Prototyping, tooling, and repair for Reinell,. General fiberglass boat repair starting in 1976.
                      Also worked as heavy equipment mechanic, and machinery mechanic for over 30 years.

                      Comment


                        #13
                        If you have a shut off valve (solenoid) control near the stove and a way for gasses near the propane tank to vent overboard lower than the tank you should be OK.
                        Pat says: DO-IT-RIGHT THE FIRST TIME!

                        Bayliner 3870 "ALASKA33)
                        Twin 350 GM power
                        Located in Seward, AK
                        Retired marine surveyor

                        Comment


                          #14
                          Originally posted by boatworkfl View Post
                          If you have a shut off valve (solenoid) control near the stove and a way for gasses near the propane tank to vent overboard lower than the tank you should be OK.
                          I wish I could find an active accredited surveyor who would agree with that. All cite ABYC standards for top opening locker that vents to below the lowest hull opening.
                          Tony Bacon,
                          Washougal, WA
                          Caspian
                          1997 3788 Twin Cummins 250hp

                          Comment


                            #15
                            Most well qualified marine surveyors will state ABYC, including myself, I always note the item that USCG does not require some things.
                            Ask the surveyor to quantify that the USCG does not require the box if installed where it can vent overboard and has a shut off valve near the stove, such as an electric solenoid valve on the tank and control near the stove.
                            If he does not then attach a note to the survey with the USCG regulations, USCG online.
                            Your boat was not built to ABYC standards, at least not the current standards, your surveyor should note this on the survey regarding the propane tank.
                            Pat says: DO-IT-RIGHT THE FIRST TIME!

                            Bayliner 3870 "ALASKA33)
                            Twin 350 GM power
                            Located in Seward, AK
                            Retired marine surveyor

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