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How strong is a bow eye?

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    How strong is a bow eye?

    This being my first trailerable boat, I'm still learning about the retrieving aspect of it. My belief is that I need to extend my trailer tongue. A boating buddy just saw my electric winch and suggested I shouldn't have to.

    Click image for larger version  Name:	BonDC 072017Web.JPG Views:	1 Size:	249.8 KB ID:	394781

    My 1989 2459 weighs around 6300lbs loaded, and it has a vinyl bottom. I haul it on a bunk trailer with an electric winch. I also thoroughly rinse everything off when we pull.

    So far, I've been backing in such that I only need to pull the boat up about 4' with the winch. That puts the bowsprit almost against the bow roller. The cable then pulls the bow eye up and over the bow roller plus about another 8". On our local ramps, that means I'm dropping my back truck wheels in about ⅓, ....though a few times I have heard the exhaust pipe glub-glub-glubbing so it could be a little bit more. However, every now and then - even though I rinse it - my trailer plug gets a good soaking of sea water. My thought was to just lengthen the tongue. Looking at the photo, do you think I should extend the hitch, or am I backing in too far?

    My biggest concern is roughing up and/or wearing through the vinyl bottom. Should I be concerned?

    Also, how hard can I pull on that boat eye, and how far up the bunks is about right?

    JSYK, some guy at the ramp today, who owns a slightly smaller Grady-White, said I could likely hold the entire boat up by it. Seriously....??? 6300lbs on a ⅜" stainless ring bolted through fiberglass? Personally, I think he's out to lunch, .....but hey, I've been wrong before.
    "B on D C", is a 1989 2459 Trophy Offshore HT, OMC 5.7L, Cobra OD, Yamaha 15hp kicker. Lots of toys! I'm no mechanic, just a blue water sailer and woodworker who loves deep sea fishing.
    MMSI: 367637220
    HAM: KE7TTR
    TDI tech diver
    BoD Puget Sound Anglers North Olympic Peninsula Chapter
    Kevin

    #2
    The bow eye is likely stronger than you'd think. Personally I float my boat off the trailer and only need to crank the winch (by hand) about 3-4 feet max when retrieving and it's not hard to get her snugged up to the bow roller I'd extend the tongue.
    BTW, my bow eye does not go over the bow roller, snugs up just below
    Dave
    Edmonds, WA
    "THE FIX"
    '93 2556
    Carbureted 383 Vortec-Bravo II 2.0:1 18 1/4x19 P

    The rebuild of my 2556 https://www.baylinerownersclub.org/f...76?view=thread
    Misc. projects thread
    https://www.baylinerownersclub.org/f...56-gctid789773

    Comment


      #3
      I have a 275. When I first bought it, I was rack storing it. Didn’t have a trailer. After I bought a trailer I asked the marina crew to load it on the trailer for me. They pulled it off the rack with a forklift, moved it to an electric winch arrangement in their yard, hung it by straps from the bow eye and transom rings while I backed the trailer under the boat. Worked fine but I was also surprised how much those rings will hold. Never saw that done before but they do it all the time at that yard.
      1990 2755 - sold
      2005 275 - sold (now boatless)

      Comment


        #4
        They were never meant to be used like that. They are not lifting points. They're just eye bolts tightened against the fiberglass. At a minumim you run the risk of cracking the gelcoat...

        It would likely hold the boat up simply due to the fact the bolt is in shear. As tie-downs, they prevent movement. It takes very little to do that because all the loads are static against the bunks AND you have gravity helping. Reverse that and now gravity is working AGAINST you before the boat even lifts free, after that its all dynamic load. Every little bounce or sway or twist can double or triple those loads.

        Don't let anyone lift your boat by the tie-down eyes.

        Custom CNC Design And Dash Panels

        iBoatNW

        1980 CHB Europa 42 Trawler- "Honey Badger"

        Comment


        • Rick_Kenyon
          Rick_Kenyon commented
          Editing a comment
          Probably good advice. I didn’t know how they were going to do it, and thought they could simply drop the boat on the trailer directly from the forklift but the yard manager wanted to do it that way. It worked but did seem like a lot of load for those bolts.

        #5
        Crunchy, I’ve seen extendable trailer tongues used on sailboat trailers. Given that the only standard for a boat launch pitch is the angle of the beach, one could, in theory, have all four truck tires in the water to launch or retrieve. Replacing the current tongue with a longer one is a rusty nut and bolt operation, and you are going to be extending your surge brake lines and electrical wires. The tricky part will be maintaining the tongue weight although by the stance of your truck in the picture it looks like you may be tongue heavy.
        P/C Pete
        Edmonds Yacht Club (Commodore 1993)
        1988 3818 "GLAUBEN”
        Hino EH700 175 Onan MDKD Genset
        MMSI 367770440

        Comment


          #6
          Originally posted by builderdude View Post
          The bow eye is likely stronger than you'd think. Personally I float my boat off the trailer and only need to crank the winch (by hand) about 3-4 feet max when retrieving and it's not hard to get her snugged up to the bow roller I'd extend the tongue.
          BTW, my bow eye does not go over the bow roller, snugs up just below
          The bow eye under the bow roller? Hmmmmm....... Interesting thought.

          When we bought her 3 years ago, the PO had it so low I was concerned that it would careen over the vehicle if we hit something.

          Click image for larger version  Name:	BonDC Original Bow Roller Position.JPG Views:	2 Size:	312.5 KB ID:	394826

          The bow roller bar was only actually being held by the forward bolt. The second bolt was just laying against the main beam. This looked plain scary to me.

          My first adjustment was to pivot the bow roller bar roller end up.

          Click image for larger version  Name:	BonDC Bow Roller Adjusted1.jpg Views:	1 Size:	319.5 KB ID:	394823

          I used it once, but was concerned that the roller was providing no actual side-to-side stability. I decided to completely change everything.

          Click image for larger version  Name:	BonDC Trailer New Winch Mount Config.jpg Views:	1 Size:	268.3 KB ID:	394825

          First, I raised both ends of the roller bar. I also moved the battery forward to stop from being semi-submerged. Then I shifted the back main beam brace aft, making it much harder to pull everything forward if I have to make that sudden stop. This is how it is today.

          I'm not sure I can put the bow roller above the bow eye, because as it is, when we winch on, the bowsprit and anchor just clears the roller. So, raising it would let the bowsprit hook on the roller.

          Might you have a photo so share of what you did?
          Attached Files
          "B on D C", is a 1989 2459 Trophy Offshore HT, OMC 5.7L, Cobra OD, Yamaha 15hp kicker. Lots of toys! I'm no mechanic, just a blue water sailer and woodworker who loves deep sea fishing.
          MMSI: 367637220
          HAM: KE7TTR
          TDI tech diver
          BoD Puget Sound Anglers North Olympic Peninsula Chapter
          Kevin

          Comment


            #7
            Having just spent the last two weeks rebuilding the bow eye mounting on our new to us 2755 I wouldn't trust pulling on one without some thorough investigation. On our 1990 2755 the bow eye was mounted through a small wooden backing block which had been sprayed over with fiberglass. Evidently over time water had migrated up the bow eye threads and rotted out the backing block - clearly the holes weren't properly glassed at the factory. Somebody had subsequently pulled hard enough on the bow eye to crack the inside fiberglass and collapse one side of the backing block. I ended up gouging out the block from the inside, filling the void with epoxy and colloidal filler and then redrilling and mounting the bow eye. I also added three layers of glass cloth progressively larger on the inside and then put a 3/8 steel backing plate about 3" x 4" for the bow eye to pull against.

            Having done all that I'm confident the bow eye will stand a "substantial" pull. However I have never been in favour of pulling a boat onto a bunk trailer with the bow eye. I''ve never loaded this 2755 so perhaps it is different from every other boat I have ever owned (but I doubt that). My practice is to back the trailer deep enough that I can power the boat fully onto the trailer until the bow touches the bracket on the front of the trailer. Generally on a bunk trailer if you get the bunks barely underwater that will put you deep enough to load. If you put it too deep it will wander all over the place and be hard to centre on the trailer. Not deep enough and you won't be able to power onto the trailer. I did once have a large inboard on a full roller Calkins trailer and that boat was easier to load with the winch but on a bunk trailer I would never try to pull the boat on with the winch.
            R.J.(Bob) Evans
            Buchanan, SK
            Cierra 2755
            Previously 43 Defever, Response LX
            Various runabouts, canoes & kayaks

            Comment


              #8
              If the gang washer on the inside was used when the eye was installed you could hang that boat from it.

              It does look like you probably could use a bit of length on the tongue to be able make launch/retrieve easier. Before you do that see what you can do to adjust the trailer to let the boat sit lower especially in the front. Even an inch or two will create a lot of buoyancy. Expect to have to adjust a lot of parts of the trailer to do this including the winch stand.

              The chines are still above the fenders - get them as close as you can, and the boat may sit bow down a bit on the trailer when hooked to the truck. Use a block and/or a drop leg jack for storage so rainwater properly drains.
              1999 Sandpiper Pilothouse - Current
              1989 3888 - 2011-2019, 1985 Contessa - 2005-2011, 1986 21' Trophy 1998-2005
              Nobody gets out alive.

              Comment


                #9
                The last time I launched my 2859, it was too far back once I got out of the water. On flat ground I pulled it forward about 6" with the winch. Completely out of the water, wet bunks. I do have a 2 speed winch.
                Esteban
                Huntington Beach, California
                2018 Element 16
                Currently looking for 32xx in South Florida
                Former Bayliners: 3218, 2859, 2252, 1952

                Comment


                  #10
                  Crunchie that's quite the bow stop apparatus you've got there and your bow eye is located quite a bit farther up than mine, are all 2452's like that? I can see why your going over the roller with the cable now.
                  Here's a shot of mine but as I've said my bow eye is much lower than yours. My rear tires are usually in the water while retrieving and as I've said previously cranking the boat up the last 3-4 feet is not difficult however a couple times I did back in a bit more to lessen the effort.
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                  Dave
                  Edmonds, WA
                  "THE FIX"
                  '93 2556
                  Carbureted 383 Vortec-Bravo II 2.0:1 18 1/4x19 P

                  The rebuild of my 2556 https://www.baylinerownersclub.org/f...76?view=thread
                  Misc. projects thread
                  https://www.baylinerownersclub.org/f...56-gctid789773

                  Comment


                    #11
                    Also, my tongue is 8 ft 6" in length from the coupler socket to the cross bar located directly below the bow eye.
                    another note: my winch post was double the highth of what you see currently, didn't want the bow sprit/anchor getting hung up on it.
                    Dave
                    Edmonds, WA
                    "THE FIX"
                    '93 2556
                    Carbureted 383 Vortec-Bravo II 2.0:1 18 1/4x19 P

                    The rebuild of my 2556 https://www.baylinerownersclub.org/f...76?view=thread
                    Misc. projects thread
                    https://www.baylinerownersclub.org/f...56-gctid789773

                    Comment


                      #12
                      Wow! Lots of responses. I'll respond in one post.

                      green650, I tried that once when the same thing happened to me, and at the first 'creak/chunk', I decided to re-splash and start again. However, with wet bunks and vinyl, that is good to know.

                      builderdude, your bow eye is far lower than mine. My tongue length is exactly 8'. The new tongue I bought is exactly 10'.

                      Pcpete, I'm guessing my tongue weigh is between 400-450lbs, which I am okay with. My preference is to have a hitch weight between 6-8%. If I did extend it, I think it would drop to around 400. I'm also thinking of removing the battery completely and using the power line on the 7 pole trailer plug. I've disconnected it because it was getting wet, and I have no desire to feed salt water into an always powered line. Otherwise, I have already measure all the lines, and they will allow me to extend it 2'. In fact, last week I purchased the new 10' tongue. It still needs to be drilled out - which I have to rent a special magnet base drill and carbide pits - then hall it to Kent to get it galvanized. That means 2 ferries a week apart.

                      kwb and bobofthenorth, when I installed the windlass, I took a photo of the space. You can see how it is backed. Personally, I'm sure it is plenty strong, but am reluctant to scuff the vinyl bottom pulling the boat along the bunks.

                      Click image for larger version  Name:	BonDC Bow-eye Backing.jpg Views:	1 Size:	188.0 KB ID:	394871

                      kwb, extending the tongue would definitely address all my issues. However, my question is whether I need to or if I am doing something wrong. Ergo: Does it really need extending?

                      I've attached a pdf of the trailer. According to the trailer model number, I am having a difficulty believing EZ Loader would design a trailer for a boat this size (and more) that would need the tongue extended. As it is, towing my boat on this trailer is actually not legal, because the brake and clearance lights are supposed to be within 3' of the longest protrusion, which would be the raised prop.

                      I even called EZ Loader when we bought it and asked if this was the correct trailer for this boat. They said it was.

                      Again, thanks for your thoughts. Still unsure what I should do, with much of the decision resting on how durable the bottom is. Thoughts?
                      "B on D C", is a 1989 2459 Trophy Offshore HT, OMC 5.7L, Cobra OD, Yamaha 15hp kicker. Lots of toys! I'm no mechanic, just a blue water sailer and woodworker who loves deep sea fishing.
                      MMSI: 367637220
                      HAM: KE7TTR
                      TDI tech diver
                      BoD Puget Sound Anglers North Olympic Peninsula Chapter
                      Kevin

                      Comment


                        #13
                        Maybe ask santa for this:
                        https://seattle.craigslist.org/tac/b...400168996.html
                        Esteban
                        Huntington Beach, California
                        2018 Element 16
                        Currently looking for 32xx in South Florida
                        Former Bayliners: 3218, 2859, 2252, 1952

                        Comment


                          #14
                          Originally posted by green650 View Post
                          And go back to a manual winch? .......Get a rope!
                          "B on D C", is a 1989 2459 Trophy Offshore HT, OMC 5.7L, Cobra OD, Yamaha 15hp kicker. Lots of toys! I'm no mechanic, just a blue water sailer and woodworker who loves deep sea fishing.
                          MMSI: 367637220
                          HAM: KE7TTR
                          TDI tech diver
                          BoD Puget Sound Anglers North Olympic Peninsula Chapter
                          Kevin

                          Comment


                            #15
                            One thing that I don't see in any of the photos is a strap or other type of restraint going from the bow eye down to the trailer structure. This will help keep the boat from climbing over the bow roller during a sudden stop or accident.
                            1999 3788, Cummins 270 "Freedom"
                            2013 Boston Whaler 130 SS
                            Anacortes, WA
                            Isla Verde, PR

                            Comment


                            • builderdude
                              builderdude commented
                              Editing a comment
                              Yep, a good idea to do. On my list
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