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    Titan model 6 surge brake-gctid828553

    Hi,

    I have a magic tilt trailer with a Titan model 6 surge brake.

    My buddy and I are fixing it up and came across the front roller and front roller cover.

    It doesn't really make sense to me... can anybody enlighten me about its function?

    Because right now I'm not sure if it's working or broken...

    Thanks! G.

    #2
    G,

    You should be able to roll that roller by hand. That roller helps guide the coupler case into the outer housing of the actuator. When the coupler case moves in it applies pressure to the master cylinder via a pushrod. The master cylinder sends pressure to your brakes and helps stop the trailer. It works just like the brakes on your car, with the brakes being applied when the trailer is going faster than your tow vehicle.

    A manual for this actuator is available online and is worth looking at. There's a section that tells you how to test the actuator using a board. It's a simple system that works well and is easy to maintain.

    If you have drum brakes then you will need to adjust the brakes every thousand miles or so. I have never known of surge disc brakes to need adjustment. It's always good idea to pump up the braking system prior to use for either system, especially if the trailer has sat for a while.
    Randy
    2006 Bayliner BR205
    5.0 Carb, Alpha 1 Gen 2
    Chesapeake, VA

    Comment


      #3
      Hi Squiddy,

      Thanks for your input. I looked through the manual and the only thing I couldn't really understand was that roller and the lid on it.

      Also my trailer had some kind of piece of sheet metal in between the roller and the inner housing that slides into the outer housing. I think the previous owner stuck it there to slow down the sliding motion or add more resistance as the brake reservoir was totally dry when I checked.

      So I guess it just guides the inner housing then and the lid prevents things to get in there?

      The damper down in the front doesn't push or pull one way or the other, right?

      This damper just slows down motions each way?

      And the springs dampen initial hard braking impacts?

      There's just some information that is not in the manual nor on YouTube and I'm trying to figure it out. I might be oberanalyzing a few things but I do not want to miss to understand some crucial function when getting it ready to take out.

      Thanks, G.

      Comment


        #4
        I mean, shouldn't there be a roller on the top and the bottom?

        Comment


          #5
          "Gerd1ff" post=828563 wrote:
          I mean, shouldn't there be a roller on the top and the bottom?
          There kind of is. There is a roller on top, and a pin that rides in a slot along the inner sleeve. The pin is also what the damper is connected to. I have the model 10 and it is the same.
          "B on D C", is a 1989 2459 Trophy Offshore HT, OMC 5.7L, Cobra OD, Yamaha 15hp kicker. Lots of toys! I'm no mechanic, just a blue water sailer and woodworker who loves deep sea fishing.
          MMSI: 367637220
          HAM: KE7TTR
          TDI tech diver
          BoD Puget Sound Anglers North Olympic Peninsula Chapter
          Kevin

          Comment


            #6
            "Gerd1ff" post=828561 wrote:
            So I guess it just guides the inner housing then and the lid prevents things to get in there?
            Yes.

            "Gerd1ff" post=828561 wrote:
            The damper down in the front doesn't push or pull one way or the other, right?
            The damper keeps the coupler pushed forward, then helps take the hard stops from jerking and banging the master cylinder when you stop.

            "Gerd1ff" post=828561 wrote:
            This damper just slows down motions each way?
            One way, really. It's a shock absorber.

            "Gerd1ff" post=828561 wrote:
            And the springs dampen initial hard braking impacts?
            They keep the master cylinder pushed forward to help release the brakes. Simply stated, the damper is for the coupler, and the springs are for the master cylinder. Both work against the stopping action.

            I will add, make sure your drum brakes are working, especially if being used in salt water. Some boaters add a hose into the inner housing so it can be rinsed after each use. I replaced my drums with discs, which includes adding a bigger master cylinder, and a solenoid that shuts off the pressure supply so I can backup.
            "B on D C", is a 1989 2459 Trophy Offshore HT, OMC 5.7L, Cobra OD, Yamaha 15hp kicker. Lots of toys! I'm no mechanic, just a blue water sailer and woodworker who loves deep sea fishing.
            MMSI: 367637220
            HAM: KE7TTR
            TDI tech diver
            BoD Puget Sound Anglers North Olympic Peninsula Chapter
            Kevin

            Comment


              #7
              G,

              The lid is there to keep the area clean. You are supposed to oil the roller and bolts.

              If your reservoir was dry then you will need to bleed the system then check for braking action using the test in the manual.

              Do you have disc or drum brakes? If you have disc brakes you may want to take the calipers off and inspect them before filling the system with brake fluid. Rebuilding disc brake calipers is really simple.
              Randy
              2006 Bayliner BR205
              5.0 Carb, Alpha 1 Gen 2
              Chesapeake, VA

              Comment


                #8
                "Squiddy" post=828572 wrote:
                You are supposed to oil the roller ...
                Actually, there is a grease nipple right beside it to lube the roller, and it periodically needs a good shot of marine grease.

                FWIW, I've always though that the lid was so I could blast that area with the pressure washer, and the cover would keep me from accidentally getting the grease everywhere. It is, after all, just like snot. B)
                "B on D C", is a 1989 2459 Trophy Offshore HT, OMC 5.7L, Cobra OD, Yamaha 15hp kicker. Lots of toys! I'm no mechanic, just a blue water sailer and woodworker who loves deep sea fishing.
                MMSI: 367637220
                HAM: KE7TTR
                TDI tech diver
                BoD Puget Sound Anglers North Olympic Peninsula Chapter
                Kevin

                Comment


                  #9
                  "CptCrunchie" post=828615 wrote:
                  "Squiddy" post=828572 wrote:
                  You are supposed to oil the roller ...
                  Actually, there is a grease nipple right beside it to lube the roller, and it periodically needs a good shot of marine grease.

                  FWIW, I've always though that the lid was so I could blast that area with the pressure washer, and the cover would keep me from accidentally getting the grease everywhere. It is, after all, just like snot. B)
                  :cheer: :silly:
                  Dave
                  Restoring/ upgrading: 1990 Ciera Sunbridge 2655 ST, "One Particular Harbour"
                  5.7 Mercruiser Alpha 1 Gen 1 (my floating retirement villa if it doesn't kill me first)
                  Sold:
                  1995 SeaPro 210 C/C "Hydro-Therapy"
                  Mariner 150
                  Towing with:
                  2002 Ford F 350 7.3L Super Duty
                  Near High Rock Lake, N.C.

                  Comment


                    #10
                    If the master cylinder was void of fluid you likely have a blown wheel cylinder. it'll be easy to see once you remove the hubs. There will be tell-tail brake fluid inside the drum and on the pads. likely the pads will have to be replaced (both sides). It sounds like you are not familiar with surge brakes. These brakes should be serviced annually if you launch in salt water. Even fresh water will take it's toll. The brakes on your trailer are as important as the brakes on your tow vehicle. The are designed to stop the trailer, which your vehicle brakes are not. They must be adjusted properly and evenly so in the event that you really need them, and the time will come when you do, they will stop the trailer in a straight line. I'm not being alarmist, just had a fair amount of experience with surge brakes.
                    Bob Hawes.
                    Kelowna, B.C.
                    1998 Trophy 2052 WA
                    4.3 Vortec, A1 G2

                    Comment


                      #11
                      To all,

                      Great input, thanks. Learning a lot here.

                      Def. taking the brakes apart to inspect them. They are drums w a flush system. Now I understand what the clear lines are for lol. :woohoo:

                      So once everything works again:

                      If I back the trailer up then the springs are mainly what prevent it from locking up, correct?

                      Comment


                        #12
                        So once everything works again:

                        If I back the trailer up then the springs are mainly what prevent it from locking up, correct?[/quote]

                        If you are referring to the springs in the surge brake actuator, no.

                        There are two types of free-backing systems that I am aware of. The first type has an actuator located between the master cylinder and the brake line that goes back to your brakes. My experience is that this actuator has a blue wire coming out of it. This actuator is wired to your car's reverse lights and prevents the master cylinder from pressurizing the brake line when you are in reverse.

                        The second type is free-backing brake drums. This is a design that prevents the brakes from engaging when going backwards. If you post a picture of the inside of your brake drum we could tell you if it was a free-backer or not.

                        I'm going to guess that your brake backing system doesn't work. I say this because earlier you mentioned that there was a piece of sheet metal between the roller and inner housing. The previous owner may have tried to block the actuator so he could back up. Just a guess though.
                        Randy
                        2006 Bayliner BR205
                        5.0 Carb, Alpha 1 Gen 2
                        Chesapeake, VA

                        Comment


                          #13
                          "Gerd1ff" post=828918 wrote:
                          So once everything works again:

                          If I back the trailer up then the springs are mainly what prevent it from locking up, correct?
                          Squiddy is partly correct. The difference is between disc and drum brakes.

                          Only if you have disc brakes would you will have a solenoid valve connected to the back of the master cylinder on the actuator. It is activated by your vehicles backup lights, and is used to stop the fluid flow to the calipers when you need to back up. Otherwise, your disc brakes would lock up the moment you started to back up. (If you have one, you should be able to see it on the back of the master cylinder. But if you have drum brakes, it is highly unlikely that you would have a solenoid valve.)

                          [attachment]42399 wrote:
                          Screen Shot 2017-10-25 at 6.38.11 AM.png[/attachment]

                          Drum brakes, on the other hand, are designed to grip when moving forward, and will allow you back up without needing to stop the flow of brake fluid to the brakes. They do not need a solenoid valve.

                          The springs on the master cylinder are just to ease the pressure onto the master cylinder as you stop, then help release the brakes after you stop. They will help a little to keep the brakes from activating when backing up, but if you consider the power you need to get your boat and trailer moving in reverse, the springs are not strong enough to prevent the master cylinder from applying the brakes. Granted, the master cylinder for disc brakes is larger than one for drum brakes, but the springs for both are the same and not strong enough to prevent the brakes from activating, ...which is why disc brakes need a solenoid.

                          The dampers (shocks) keep the coupler forward so the brake pads or shoes don't ride on the discs or drums when your trailer is traveling the same speed as your vehicle.

                          Surge brakes are a pretty simple system.


                          Attached files

                          "B on D C", is a 1989 2459 Trophy Offshore HT, OMC 5.7L, Cobra OD, Yamaha 15hp kicker. Lots of toys! I'm no mechanic, just a blue water sailer and woodworker who loves deep sea fishing.
                          MMSI: 367637220
                          HAM: KE7TTR
                          TDI tech diver
                          BoD Puget Sound Anglers North Olympic Peninsula Chapter
                          Kevin

                          Comment


                            #14
                            So the shock def needs to push? Because it seems like it is just providing resistance each way right now... :blink:

                            Comment


                              #15
                              "Gerd1ff" post=828996 wrote:
                              So the shock def needs to push? Because it seems like it is just providing resistance each way right now... :blink:
                              I stand corrected. https://images.etrailer.com/static/i...from eTrailer. I just ordered some new ones because I need to replace mine. From what I remember, they work just like a shock. I just remember that when I unhooked the trailer, I couldn't push the coupler back in. My Titan 10 has 2 of them.

                              Also, https://images.etrailer.com/static/i...your actuator.
                              "B on D C", is a 1989 2459 Trophy Offshore HT, OMC 5.7L, Cobra OD, Yamaha 15hp kicker. Lots of toys! I'm no mechanic, just a blue water sailer and woodworker who loves deep sea fishing.
                              MMSI: 367637220
                              HAM: KE7TTR
                              TDI tech diver
                              BoD Puget Sound Anglers North Olympic Peninsula Chapter
                              Kevin

                              Comment

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