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No-start condition 2002 350 MAG MPI-gctid827408

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    No-start condition 2002 350 MAG MPI-gctid827408

    I can't get my 2002 350 MAG MPI to start. Several times in the spring when we weren't using the boat a lot I had trouble getting it started but eventually it would go after cranking for a while and playing with the throttle when it caught. The last time this happened I pulled off the distributor cap and noticed there were deposits on the contact posts and after cleaning them the engine started right away. After that the engine always started well all summer as long as it wasn't left more than a couple of weeks between uses.

    This time, after not using the boat for about 4 weeks and being unable to start it, I found the distributor contacts were again crusted with a brownish deposit. Cleaning them actually had a negative effect: before scraping off the deposits the engine would catch briefly but not run, afterwards there was no response at all. Thinking that I had somehow damaged the cap I replaced both it and the rotor. No joy, although it did fire briefly a couple of times...

    I've since confirmed there is a spark from the coil at the distributor, there is fuel under pressure in the system by opening and pressing on the shraeder valve on the bridge across the fuel rails. I checked and remade all connections on the ignition switch and pulled and reinstalled the spark plug wires on the spark plugs. The kill switch is operational: flipping it down and up while the ignition key is on activates the fuel pump.

    The only thing I haven't yet tried is pulling the plugs, but it seems to me they probably wouldn't all fail at the same time and create a no-start condition. I did try to remove a couple but was unable to get my spark plug socket far enough past the risers and onto the plug firmly enough to loosen them.

    Am I missing something?
    Paul
    2002 2859 Ciera Classic, 350 MAG MPI, Bravo II
    2013 Tandem TuffTrailer
    2005 GMC Sierra 2500HD, 6.6L Duramax/Allison

    #2
    I think you are having fuel bleed down issues. Over time the internal regulator in the fuel pump will bleed down. And then will take time to rebuild the pressure. This is also symptomatic of a pump on it's way out. You should check the fuel filter, fuel pressure, and the specified leak down time. Happens all the time with autos, too. Let them sit for a week or so and it takes a few seconds to start
    1986 Bayliner Contessa 2850
    In over my head for sure!!
    M/V SKUA refit
    https://www.baylinerownersclub.org/f...ak-gctid499442

    https://www.baylinerownersclub.org/f...contessa-refit

    Comment


      #3
      I forgot to mention I also replaced the fuel filter before i tried to start it and afterwards uncapped the schraeder valve on the fuel rail and pressed it...there was lots of pressure at that point.

      My son-in-law suggested there may be a problem with the "choke coil" making it hard to start when it's cold outside so I dropped a heater into the engine bay for the afternoon. I just tried to start it again and it sputtered more than it has but it still won't start.
      Paul
      2002 2859 Ciera Classic, 350 MAG MPI, Bravo II
      2013 Tandem TuffTrailer
      2005 GMC Sierra 2500HD, 6.6L Duramax/Allison

      Comment


        #4
        "Bodie" post=827442 wrote:
        I forgot to mention I also replaced the fuel filter before i tried to start it and afterwards uncapped the schraeder valve on the fuel rail and pressed it...there was lots of pressure at that point.

        My son-in-law suggested there may be a problem with the "choke coil" making it hard to start when it's cold outside so I dropped a heater into the engine bay for the afternoon. I just tried to start it again and it sputtered more than it has but it still won't start.
        There is no choke on an MPI engine.

        I would verify spark at the plugs. Start by using a timing light on each plug wire to see if it flashes. Then check the plugs themself.

        If you have spark, fuel and air that leaves timing.
        1997 Maxum 2400 SCR 5.7LX Bravo II

        Mike

        Comment


          #5
          Can you elaborate on the issue?

          Engine turns over, correct?

          Will not start or not stay running?
          1997 Maxum 2400 SCR 5.7LX Bravo II

          Mike

          Comment


            #6
            He knows there's no choke, he was talking about the idle air control.

            To clarify, the engine turns over, occasionally sputters, but will not run.
            Paul
            2002 2859 Ciera Classic, 350 MAG MPI, Bravo II
            2013 Tandem TuffTrailer
            2005 GMC Sierra 2500HD, 6.6L Duramax/Allison

            Comment


              #7
              While searching for IAC mentions in the forums I came across a post I started some time ago about my engine "cutting out" while idling, in gear and out. It's like someone turns off the key for 1 second then back on again. It's never stalled altogether but makes me think it may be related. Suggestions for that problem included replacing the IAC, poor connections at the ignition switch or coil and a faulty kill switch.

              I never followed up on that issue but have checked the connections at the ignition switch and the kill switch seems solid. Tomorrow I'll be checking the coil wires, pulling the plugs and looking for an IAC to buy.
              Paul
              2002 2859 Ciera Classic, 350 MAG MPI, Bravo II
              2013 Tandem TuffTrailer
              2005 GMC Sierra 2500HD, 6.6L Duramax/Allison

              Comment


                #8
                If I remember correctly, a faulty vacuum connection, hose, or switch can wreak havoc on an MPI system. I would check those items as well as the suggestion to see if each plug is firing. And then there is the possibility of the timing being off or failing to advance and retard as required. Of course that is usually an ECU issue.

                Greg
                Newport, Oregon
                South Beach Marina
                1986 3270 with twin 110 HP Hino diesels. Name of boat "Mr. Darcy"
                Past work history: Prototyping, tooling, and repair for Reinell,. General fiberglass boat repair starting in 1976.
                Also worked as heavy equipment mechanic, and machinery mechanic for over 30 years.

                Comment


                  #9
                  "Bodie" post=827463 wrote:
                  While searching for IAC mentions in the forums I came across a post I started some time ago about my engine "cutting out" while idling, in gear and out. It's like someone turns off the key for 1 second then back on again. It's never stalled altogether but makes me think it may be related. Suggestions for that problem included replacing the IAC, poor connections at the ignition switch or coil and a faulty kill switch.

                  I never followed up on that issue but have checked the connections at the ignition switch and the kill switch seems solid. Tomorrow I'll be checking the coil wires, pulling the plugs and looking for an IAC to buy.
                  Typically the IAC will not prevent an engine from starting but stay running at idle. Have you tried starting it with the throttle advanced enough to maintain about 1000 rpms. If this keeps the engine running the IAC would be the issue.
                  1997 Maxum 2400 SCR 5.7LX Bravo II

                  Mike

                  Comment


                    #10
                    Might be a good idea to put a gauge on the fuel rail. It's hard to tell the difference between 20 PSI and 48 PSI with a finger. One is a no start the other runs fine. It sounds like your thinking ignition problem. They usually crop up after a hot restart attempt, but not always. Does it have a good spark at the plugs when you try to cold start??
                    1986 Bayliner Contessa 2850
                    In over my head for sure!!
                    M/V SKUA refit
                    https://www.baylinerownersclub.org/f...ak-gctid499442

                    https://www.baylinerownersclub.org/f...contessa-refit

                    Comment


                      #11
                      On some systems the signal for timing is generated inside the distributor. The ecm reads this signal for rpm.

                      If the ecm doesn't see this signal, it may not pulse the injectors, causing a lack of fuel even though the rail is pressured up.

                      The typical failure, if a HEI type ignition, is the ICM, ignition control module, which lives in the bottom of the distributor. It can also be the reluctor, which supplies a raw signal to the ICM.

                      I'd check the pressure etc first, but keep it in mind if you can't find anything else.

                      Chay

                      Comment


                        #12
                        "SKUA 28 Contessa" post=827493 wrote:
                        Might be a good idea to put a gauge on the fuel rail. It's hard to tell the difference between 20 PSI and 48 PSI with a finger. One is a no start the other runs fine. It sounds like your thinking ignition problem. They usually crop up after a hot restart attempt, but not always. Does it have a good spark at the plugs when you try to cold start??
                        Being a port injected engine I would think even low fuel pressure would allow it to start but lack top end performance.
                        1997 Maxum 2400 SCR 5.7LX Bravo II

                        Mike

                        Comment


                          #13
                          "cfoss1" post=827497 wrote:
                          On some systems the signal for timing is generated inside the distributor. The ecm reads this signal for rpm.

                          If the ecm doesn't see this signal, it may not pulse the injectors, causing a lack of fuel even though the rail is pressured up.

                          The typical failure, if a HEI type ignition, is the ICM, ignition control module, which lives in the bottom of the distributor. It can also be the reluctor, which supplies a raw signal to the ICM.

                          I'd check the pressure etc first, but keep it in mind if you can't find anything else.

                          Chay
                          If this was the case I don't think he would be getting spark either.
                          1997 Maxum 2400 SCR 5.7LX Bravo II

                          Mike

                          Comment


                            #14
                            I had exact same problem on my 2002 350 MPI.

                            It turned out to be a wet connection on the oil pressure sensor. It is located on the lower port side of the engine. I unplugged it, blew out the connections with canned air, sprayed the contacts with contact cleaner, then put it back together. The boat fired right up.

                            Cheap test before going into further diagnostics
                            2014 Double Eagle 176EXL. But we are not done with Bayliner yet…this is just to get us to and from our cottage in the Gulf Islands.

                            Comment


                              #15
                              "B95054" post=827508 wrote:
                              I had exact same problem on my 2002 350 MPI.

                              It turned out to be a wet connection on the oil pressure sensor. It is located on the lower port side of the engine. I unplugged it, blew out the connections with canned air, sprayed the contacts with contact cleaner, then put it back together. The boat fired right up.

                              Cheap test before going into further diagnostics
                              Possibly but I would think that your boat would not start from what you described was preventing the fuel pump from operating. The OP claims to have fuel pressure at the fuel rail.
                              1997 Maxum 2400 SCR 5.7LX Bravo II

                              Mike

                              Comment

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