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5.7 in a 2452 - Carb setting - is there an easy way?

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    5.7 in a 2452 - Carb setting - is there an easy way?

    Hi,

    I did ask this ages ago and there was nothing around at the time but things move on . . .

    When tuning a car you can get an exhaust sniffer (o2 meter) to help adjust your mixture. I just wondered if there was anything that will work on a boat with raw water cooling I.e water from the engine block is thrown out with the exhaust. I have a 5.7 sbc with a Edelbrock 1409. I just love that carb. I used it to replace my old Rochester 4bbl. I have "leaned out" the mixture 4% using the next needle down the 1409 range. They provide a chat. This got rid of a lot of the unburnt fuel smell which I personally don't notice but the wife hates. I am pretty sure that the mixture is about right and that I'd need a little bit of tek to improve on the mixture.

    Thanks in advance.

    Terry
    Last edited by Jim_Gandee; 04-02-2018, 11:07 PM.
    Terry (Retired Diving Instructor and Part Time IT Consultant)
    1998 Bayliner 2452. 5.7l V8 - Edelbrock 1409 4bbl - Alpha1Gen2 - Solent UK.
    MMSI 235061726

    #2
    Good question Terry, if it was me I'd go old school and run it then read the plug color.
    Dave
    Edmonds, WA
    "THE FIX"
    '93 2556
    Carbureted 383 Vortec-Bravo II 2.0:1 18 1/4x19 P

    The rebuild of my 2556 https://www.baylinerownersclub.org/f...76?view=thread
    Misc. projects thread
    https://www.baylinerownersclub.org/f...56-gctid789773

    Comment


      #3
      "builderdude" post=824267 wrote:
      Good question Terry, if it was me I'd go old school and run it then read the plug color.
      Plug color? *blink-blink* As in, spark plugs? I'm just about to replace my Rochester with what the OP has. You mean I could set this carb myself?
      "B on D C", is a 1989 2459 Trophy Offshore HT, OMC 5.7L, Cobra OD, Yamaha 15hp kicker. Lots of toys! I'm no mechanic, just a blue water sailer and woodworker who loves deep sea fishing.
      MMSI: 367637220
      HAM: KE7TTR
      TDI tech diver
      BoD Puget Sound Anglers North Olympic Peninsula Chapter
      Kevin

      Comment


        #4
        Yep, spark plug color, the ceramic sourounding the electrode.

        Dark to black running to rich, lighter to white to lean. Should look somewhere around the color of cardboard.
        Dave
        Edmonds, WA
        "THE FIX"
        '93 2556
        Carbureted 383 Vortec-Bravo II 2.0:1 18 1/4x19 P

        The rebuild of my 2556 https://www.baylinerownersclub.org/f...76?view=thread
        Misc. projects thread
        https://www.baylinerownersclub.org/f...56-gctid789773

        Comment


          #5
          Should get ya close.



          Dave
          Edmonds, WA
          "THE FIX"
          '93 2556
          Carbureted 383 Vortec-Bravo II 2.0:1 18 1/4x19 P

          The rebuild of my 2556 https://www.baylinerownersclub.org/f...76?view=thread
          Misc. projects thread
          https://www.baylinerownersclub.org/f...56-gctid789773

          Comment


            #6
            "builderdude" post=824289 wrote:
            Should get ya close.
            Wow! Thanks!

            Didn't mean to hi-jack the thread, but I'm sure this is info the OP could use.

            What does too hot or too cold mean? I thought heat involved the thermostat. But how can it be too cold?

            Now, I haven't really looked at the old one, and the new one has yet to arrive. This has 4 barrels, but is there just one set screw to set? And does it set everything; idle and fully open?

            I'm guessing the choke will need to be set too, right? It already has an electric choke, so I'll be swapping the wires, but is there anything else I need to know?
            "B on D C", is a 1989 2459 Trophy Offshore HT, OMC 5.7L, Cobra OD, Yamaha 15hp kicker. Lots of toys! I'm no mechanic, just a blue water sailer and woodworker who loves deep sea fishing.
            MMSI: 367637220
            HAM: KE7TTR
            TDI tech diver
            BoD Puget Sound Anglers North Olympic Peninsula Chapter
            Kevin

            Comment


              #7
              "CptCrunchie" post=824299 wrote:
              "builderdude" post=824289 wrote:
              Should get ya close.
              Wow! Thanks!

              Didn't mean to hi-jack the thread, but I'm sure this is info the OP could use.

              What does too hot or too cold mean? I thought heat involved the thermostat. But how can it be too cold?

              Now, I haven't really looked at the old one, and the new one has yet to arrive. This has 4 barrels, but is there just one set screw to set? And does it set everything; idle and fully open?

              I'm guessing the choke will need to be set too, right? It already has an electric choke, so I'll be swapping the wires, but is there anything else I need to know?
              too hot or too cold, is in reference to the spark plug itself... the plug may be a hot burning plug or a cold burning plug...

              if one was to really get into a study of it to dial it in perfectly, you can lean or richen the burn of the air/idle mixture slightly by changing the heat range of the plug... you can change the mixture more by changing the jets or adjusting the rods in the carb...

              the thermostat has a lot to do with the heat within the combustion chamber as well, which is why the specific specs for the particular engine and how its set up are so important... but to use as a guideline more than hard numbers that have to be used.

              in my opinon, the real advantage of the AFB carb (edlebrock) is that the jets and rods are so much easier to change than in the quadrajet carbs.. but you will still have two air/idle mixture screws to adjust and one screw to set the idle of the engine... and they are much easier to get at than the one in the quadrajet carbs..

              the quadrajets are good strong running carbs once you get them dialed in, and if one doesnt tune the AFB to the engine it has the potential to be even worse than what you have now.... but the AFB carbs are good carbs and much simpler. other than the additional cost, the only solid argument that can be made for not replacing the quadrajet with an AFB is that, if you take the time to dial it in, in our sport boats the quadrajet will perform as well as the AFB... (its just that the AFB is easier to make changes to, and so it usually gets dialed in closer than the quadrajet ever does, so they have a reputation of performing better than the quadrajet )

              the problem to look for in any carb to see if it needs to be replaced, rather than dialed in, is to check for any fore/aft or up/down play in the throttle shaft... if it has play in it, it leaks air at the shaft and may not allow the carb to be adjusted as it was designed... and make sure it is a MARINE carb, as they are designed to prevent fuel vapors from escaping (if dialed in correctly), whereas an automotive performance carb almost always vents to the atmosphere (engine bay)...


              NU LIBERTE'
              Salem, OR

              1989 Bayliner 2556 Convertible
              5.7 OMC Cobra - 15.5x11 prop
              N2K equipped throughout..
              2014 Ram 3500 crew cab, 6.7 Cummins
              2007 M-3705 SLC weekend warrior, 5th wheel
              '04 Polaris Sportsman 700 -- '05 Polaris Sportsman 500 HO
              Heavy Equipment Repair and Specialty Welding

              Comment


                #8
                to answer the question that has been asked by the OP,

                finding/choosing the correct jets and rod settings on a carb is an involved process and can be a much different process on different brands of carburetors, but the procedure for adjusting the idle circuit on any brand of carb is nearly the same..

                the initial setting for the air/idle screws on a quadrajet is about 3 turns out...

                on an AFB it is 2-1/4....

                then start the engine and let it warm up completely and idling about 600-650rpm..... then turn the screws in or out to get maximum engine rpm.... turn one screw then match the amount with the other screw....

                when both screws get adjusted without any more noticeable increase in rpm, turn the rpm back down to where it was before adjusting the mixture screws... and then adjust the mixture screws again the same way....

                do this 2 or 3 times, turning the idle down each time afterward.... and there will be a time when turning either mixture screw wont increase the idle any more.... it is now adjusted to its very cleanest burning setting, but it may stumble during a hole shot due to it being lean at idle..

                if this happens, then you need to turn the screws to the left an eighth of a turn, to a quarter turn to richen the idle circuit so the transition to WOT can be made without a hiccup..

                a digital tach helps a lot with this, and sometimes the screws may be slightly in or out a bit from one another, but more than a quarter turn out of sync means there is an obstruction somewhere in the air idle circuit....

                and yes, there are other and more expensive tools to make the job go quicker (easier?), but in the end, for top performance, its the man that makes the adjustments.. the machines just get it close.


                NU LIBERTE'
                Salem, OR

                1989 Bayliner 2556 Convertible
                5.7 OMC Cobra - 15.5x11 prop
                N2K equipped throughout..
                2014 Ram 3500 crew cab, 6.7 Cummins
                2007 M-3705 SLC weekend warrior, 5th wheel
                '04 Polaris Sportsman 700 -- '05 Polaris Sportsman 500 HO
                Heavy Equipment Repair and Specialty Welding

                Comment


                  #9
                  "TerryW" post=824251 wrote:
                  Hi,

                  I did ask this ages ago and there was nothing around at the time but things move on . . .

                  When tuning a car you can get an exhaust sniffer (o2 meter) to help adjust your mixture. I just wondered if there was anything that will work on a boat with raw water cooling I.e water from the engine block is thrown out with the exhaust.Terry
                  [color]blue wrote:
                  If you have the skill level and access to a mill, there is a very good solution available for AFR tuning in marine applications.

                  I have installed this ARF gauge in a few vehicles although not in a boat yet, but it is on my back burner list for my boat.

                  It is a very good unit. It's nice to see someone came out with an adapter for old school marine applications.

                  http://howellefi.com/general-motors/...or-marine-use/

                  https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0...?ie=UTF8&psc=1

                  [color]blue wrote:
                  This would be the best choice for an in dash mount, same gauge without the cup mounting.[/color]

                  https://www.amazon.com/AEM-30-0300-W...HKPNAH58JAP7ST

                  [/color]

                  [color]blue wrote:
                  There is also this if you have the vertical clearance and can work around the exhaust hose alignment issue that may occur. [/color]

                  http://www.ebay.com/itm/like/1618300...=ps&dispItem=1
                  " WET EVER "
                  1989 2459 TROPHY OFFSHORE 5.8L COBRA / SX
                  mmsi 338108404
                  mmsi 338124956
                  "I started with nothing and still have most of it left"

                  Comment


                    #10
                    "Centerline2" post=824352 wrote:
                    the problem to look for in any carb to see if it needs to be replaced, rather than dialed in, is to check for any fore/aft or up/down play in the throttle shaft... if it has play in it, it leaks air at the shaft and may not allow the carb to be adjusted as it was designed... and make sure it is a MARINE carb, as they are designed to prevent fuel vapors from escaping (if dialed in correctly), whereas an automotive performance carb almost always vents to the atmosphere (engine bay)...
                    As pointed out http://www.baylinerownersclub.org/in...e: <br /> here, the fuel was leaking a steady stream onto the manifold from the throttle shaft. That's why I need a new carb. Besides that, the butterfly valves are corroded and the smaller ones are rusted. It was time.
                    "B on D C", is a 1989 2459 Trophy Offshore HT, OMC 5.7L, Cobra OD, Yamaha 15hp kicker. Lots of toys! I'm no mechanic, just a blue water sailer and woodworker who loves deep sea fishing.
                    MMSI: 367637220
                    HAM: KE7TTR
                    TDI tech diver
                    BoD Puget Sound Anglers North Olympic Peninsula Chapter
                    Kevin

                    Comment


                      #11
                      I see this post is a little old but does anyone have experiance on setting a quick fuel marine carb. Its super easy and quick to change jets and with the turn of s screw you can change when the secondaries open up. My thought is that if i put the smallest jets avaialbe for the primaries and have the secondaries open up later.
                      if i punch it to get up on plane would the vacuum secondaries open up with low rpm vacuum?
                      then could you back it off so it just runs on two smaller jets to stay on plane?
                      Not sure if this theory is correct for the 2452 loaded to go fishing?
                      1996 - 2452 - repowered 350/300 HP, 600 Quick Fuel, Edelbrock, Aplha One 15.5 x 15
                      1997 - 195- Repowered 4.3, Edelbrock 4 Barrel Aplha One Stainless, 19 pitch

                      Comment


                        #12
                        Originally posted by FIshon View Post
                        I see this post is a little old but does anyone have experiance on setting a quick fuel marine carb. Its super easy and quick to change jets and with the turn of s screw you can change when the secondaries open up. My thought is that if i put the smallest jets avaialbe for the primaries and have the secondaries open up later.
                        if i punch it to get up on plane would the vacuum secondaries open up with low rpm vacuum?
                        then could you back it off so it just runs on two smaller jets to stay on plane?
                        Not sure if this theory is correct for the 2452 loaded to go fishing?
                        yea, a bit of an old thread.
                        If you " punch it" to get up on plane your rpm will likely be in the 3000 + range, wouldn't consider that " low" rpm. Your vacuum operated secondaries open when the vacuum tells them to open (yes, it can be adjusted) I think you'll easily be able to maintain plane running on the primaries, I do.
                        Dave
                        Edmonds, WA
                        "THE FIX"
                        '93 2556
                        Carbureted 383 Vortec-Bravo II 2.0:1 18 1/4x19 P

                        The rebuild of my 2556 https://www.baylinerownersclub.org/f...76?view=thread
                        Misc. projects thread
                        https://www.baylinerownersclub.org/f...56-gctid789773

                        Comment


                          #13
                          Well i guess when the ice is off the lake its time to experiment. Thanks for the input!
                          !
                          1996 - 2452 - repowered 350/300 HP, 600 Quick Fuel, Edelbrock, Aplha One 15.5 x 15
                          1997 - 195- Repowered 4.3, Edelbrock 4 Barrel Aplha One Stainless, 19 pitch

                          Comment

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