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    Cobra stumbles in reverse-gctid820064

    Moving away from the dock, forward works perfect. But when I shift it in reverse, it starts to stumble and shudder, even once it is fully in gear. This continues when I pull the throttle back to rev the engine. As I shift it back into neutral, the idle returns to normal.

    What might be causing this, and Is this something I can easily adjust? Or should I be leaving it to my OMC mechanic to fix/solve?
    "B on D C", is a 1989 2459 Trophy Offshore HT, OMC 5.7L, Cobra OD, Yamaha 15hp kicker. Lots of toys! I'm no mechanic, just a blue water sailer and woodworker who loves deep sea fishing.
    MMSI: 367637220
    HAM: KE7TTR
    TDI tech diver
    BoD Puget Sound Anglers North Olympic Peninsula Chapter
    Kevin

    #2
    ESA activating sticking when shifted in reverse or over stroke switch not working cancelling it...

    See if the roller on the lever is not centering itself in the "W" when you shift into reverse.
    Joon, Kathy, Jaden & Tristan
    Uniflite 42 AC, DD 671N
    93 3058 sold
    92 2855 (day boat)
    91 Fourwinns 205 (lake boat)
    Longbranch WA
    Life is Good

    Comment


      #3
      "Ruffryder" post=820067 wrote:
      ESA activating sticking when shifted in reverse or overtake switch not working cancelling it...

      See if the roller on the lever is not centering itself in the "W" when you shift into reverse.
      +1

      Also check to see if the microswitch is sticking.

      Rectify this ASAP. My first Bayliner was doing the same thing on occasion and I procrastinated on getting it fixed. One day we were coming out of a very tight slip at a marina, I needed to power forward and back a few times to maneuver. The switch stuck momentarily and I could not power up in forward or reverse. As the boat drifted close to a seawall the switch disengaged suddenly and the stern was slammed against the wall.
      1999 3788, Cummins 270 "Freedom"
      2013 Boston Whaler 130 SS
      Anacortes, WA
      Isla Verde, PR

      Comment


        #4
        Yikes. Okay. I'm heading to the boat in a few. I'll take a photo of the area so you can see if it is how it is supposed to be.
        "B on D C", is a 1989 2459 Trophy Offshore HT, OMC 5.7L, Cobra OD, Yamaha 15hp kicker. Lots of toys! I'm no mechanic, just a blue water sailer and woodworker who loves deep sea fishing.
        MMSI: 367637220
        HAM: KE7TTR
        TDI tech diver
        BoD Puget Sound Anglers North Olympic Peninsula Chapter
        Kevin

        Comment


          #5
          "5 Steps of the Engine Shift Bracket Adjustment"

          1. Forward Overstroke Adjustment

          Center the cable anchor located in the angled slot on the top of the shift lever. Install the remote control shift cable, control box in FORWARD GEAR FULL THROTTLE. Pull out on the casing guide to remove any slack. Ajust the shift cable trunnion to center the forward (fixed) overstroke cam with the switch button on the overstroke switch.

          2. Forward Gear Engagement

          Install the transom bracket shift cable, control box is still in forward gear full throttle. PULL OUT ON THE TRANSOM BRACKET SHIFT CABLE TO FULLY ENGAGE THE CLUTCH DOG WHILE SOMEONE ROTATES THE PROPELLER. Make sure you pull back on the shift cable to remove all the end play from the system as you adjust the black barrel trunnion. When installed correctly and all slack is out of the system the load lever will "rock upward stiffly" and "rock downward easily"but should always center itself!

          3.Reverse Gear Engagement

          Shift the control box into REVERSE GEAR FULL THROTTLE, loosen the 7/16" nut in the angled slot at the top of the shift lever on the shift bracket. PUSH DOWN on the shift lever while someone rotates the propeller to FULLY ENGAGE THE CLUTCH DOG. While holding down on the shift lever, remove all slack from the remote control shift cable by pulling its casing guide to the rear of the boat. Be careful not to preload the system. Then tighten the 7/16" nut securely. When adjusted properly, and all play removed, the load lever will "rock downward stiffly" and "rock upward easily", but will always center itself.

          4. Reverse Overtroke Adjustment

          Adjust the reverse overstroke cam to center itself with the switch button on the overstroke switch (3/8" nut). The control box is still in reverse gear full throttle. "PW thru RG" (sic) models will probably not have a reverse overstroke cam.

          5. Throttle Cable Adjustment

          Install and adjust the throttle cable. Control box should be moved into the forward gear idle position, then half-way back to neutral. Tension on the cable should be only enough to positively close the throttle plates. Excessive tension will cause the shift system to bind. (Unit should shift no harder with the cable installed than with it removed).

          Now run the unit and check for smooth positive shifting, also check for proper operation of the ESA system by making the running checks at the engine shift bracket! Service Kits are available to upgrade the ESA module to the latest pulse pattern, time duration and RPM limits (SB #4099).

          http://www.baylinerownersclub.ca/all...ch-info-part-4

          Comment


            #6
            updated newer, after market ESA module deleted the over stroke switch...

            check to see if that wiring is still there.
            Joon, Kathy, Jaden & Tristan
            Uniflite 42 AC, DD 671N
            93 3058 sold
            92 2855 (day boat)
            91 Fourwinns 205 (lake boat)
            Longbranch WA
            Life is Good

            Comment


              #7
              I own a cobra I would not try to use it until fixed 8 had to. Buy another buy ignoring the issue wiped out the forward gears for occasional

              Stumbling
              1988 flybridge trophy bayliner 2556 ,mercury 5.7 lit. OMC cobra out drive 76 hrs. on new package,
              located in ketchikan ak,name DOMINION

              Comment


                #8
                "Ruffryder" post=820217 wrote:
                updated newer, after market ESA module deleted the over stroke switch...

                check to see if that wiring is still there.
                Not sure what that means, but here are two photos. Can you see anything that isn't right? Here it is in neutral.

                [attachment]39868 wrote:
                BonDCShiftNeutral.jpg[/attachment]

                Reverse. Actually, it is fully in reverse plus about Ôàô throttle.

                [attachment]39869 wrote:
                BonDCShiftReverse.jpg[/attachment]

                The ripple in the roller mount (lever?) has always been there, so that can't be it. It also shifts perfectly in and out of forward gear.

                On a different note, I rarely get under the 'hood' except to check fluid levels and tighten/replace belts, leaving the mechanics to the mechanic. Is there something I can simply spray on the engine to remove the crud?
                "B on D C", is a 1989 2459 Trophy Offshore HT, OMC 5.7L, Cobra OD, Yamaha 15hp kicker. Lots of toys! I'm no mechanic, just a blue water sailer and woodworker who loves deep sea fishing.
                MMSI: 367637220
                HAM: KE7TTR
                TDI tech diver
                BoD Puget Sound Anglers North Olympic Peninsula Chapter
                Kevin

                Comment


                  #9
                  "CptCrunchie" post=820064 wrote:
                  Moving away from the dock, forward works perfect. But when I shift it in reverse, it starts to stumble and shudder, even once it is fully in gear. This continues when I pull the throttle back to rev the engine. As I shift it back into neutral, the idle returns to normal.

                  What might be causing this, and Is this something I can easily adjust? Or should I be leaving it to my OMC mechanic to fix/solve?
                  " even once it is fully in gear..."

                  this isnt directly related to the stumbling, but when you say "even once it is fully in gear" would lead one to believe you are gently easing it into gear.... almost all types of marine gear shifting should be done quickly and crisply....and the cobra outdrive is no different. when shifting, dont let it linger and slip or grind, as this will only cause premature wear/damage. with the throttle at idle, move the shift lever in a purposeful manner like you want it solidly in gear, NOT like you want to feel it drop gently into gear, as the slow gentle method is unhealthy for the unit.... and a crisp shift will allow the mico switches to move crisply and make a solid contact as well, whereas a slow gentle shift may allow the little contacts in the switch to fail quicker than if the connection is made quick.


                  NU LIBERTE'
                  Salem, OR

                  1989 Bayliner 2556 Convertible
                  5.7 OMC Cobra - 15.5x11 prop
                  N2K equipped throughout..
                  2014 Ram 3500 crew cab, 6.7 Cummins
                  2007 M-3705 SLC weekend warrior, 5th wheel
                  '04 Polaris Sportsman 700 -- '05 Polaris Sportsman 500 HO
                  Heavy Equipment Repair and Specialty Welding

                  Comment


                    #10
                    "Centerline2" post=820227 wrote:
                    "CptCrunchie" post=820064 wrote:
                    Moving away from the dock, forward works perfect. But when I shift it in reverse, it starts to stumble and shudder, even once it is fully in gear. This continues when I pull the throttle back to rev the engine. As I shift it back into neutral, the idle returns to normal.

                    What might be causing this, and Is this something I can easily adjust? Or should I be leaving it to my OMC mechanic to fix/solve?
                    " even once it is fully in gear..."

                    this isnt directly related to the stumbling, but when you say "even once it is fully in gear" would lead one to believe you are gently easing it into gear.... almost all types of marine gear shifting should be done quickly and crisply....and the cobra outdrive is no different. when shifting, dont let it linger and slip or grind, as this will only cause premature wear/damage. with the throttle at idle, move the shift lever in a purposeful manner like you want it solidly in gear, NOT like you want to feel it drop gently into gear, as the slow gentle method is unhealthy for the unit.... and a crisp shift will allow the mico switches to move crisply and make a solid contact as well, whereas a slow gentle shift may allow the little contacts in the switch to fail quicker than if the connection is made quick.
                    I squeeze the lock and pull the throttle lever back rather quickly to engage the dogs. The motor does its usual 'stutter' like it does putting in forward, but in reverse, it doesn't smooth out. Instead, it continues to stutter and stumble. Twice the engine quit, even though the lever was almost ┬╝ throttle after the first 'click'. While I can feel the OD engage, I consider the first click to be 'in gear'.
                    "B on D C", is a 1989 2459 Trophy Offshore HT, OMC 5.7L, Cobra OD, Yamaha 15hp kicker. Lots of toys! I'm no mechanic, just a blue water sailer and woodworker who loves deep sea fishing.
                    MMSI: 367637220
                    HAM: KE7TTR
                    TDI tech diver
                    BoD Puget Sound Anglers North Olympic Peninsula Chapter
                    Kevin

                    Comment


                      #11
                      "CptCrunchie" post=820225 wrote:
                      "Ruffryder" post=820217 wrote:
                      updated newer, after market ESA module deleted the over stroke switch...

                      check to see if that wiring is still there.
                      Not sure what that means, but here are two photos. Can you see anything that isn't right? Here it is in neutral.

                      [attachment]39868 wrote:
                      BonDCShiftNeutral.jpg[/attachment]

                      Reverse. Actually, it is fully in reverse plus about Ôàô throttle.

                      [attachment]39869 wrote:
                      BonDCShiftReverse.jpg[/attachment]

                      The ripple in the roller mount (lever?) has always been there, so that can't be it. It also shifts perfectly in and out of forward gear.

                      On a different note, I rarely get under the 'hood' except to check fluid levels and tighten/replace belts, leaving the mechanics to the mechanic. Is there something I can simply spray on the engine to remove the crud?
                      It looks like the ESA is staying engaged. It should go back into the v notch after temporarily stumbling the engine. Look at it when you shift it into forward and you should see the lever sits in the v notch. Likely an fine adjustment issue.

                      Comment


                        #12
                        "bobmorgan" post=820268 wrote:
                        It looks like the ESA is staying engaged. It should go back into the v notch after temporarily stumbling the engine. Look at it when you shift it into forward and you should see the lever sits in the v notch. Likely an fine adjustment issue.
                        Ah. Okay. So the triangular thing is sticking. Guess it may need a thorough cleaning and some grease. I can do that. Thanks.
                        "B on D C", is a 1989 2459 Trophy Offshore HT, OMC 5.7L, Cobra OD, Yamaha 15hp kicker. Lots of toys! I'm no mechanic, just a blue water sailer and woodworker who loves deep sea fishing.
                        MMSI: 367637220
                        HAM: KE7TTR
                        TDI tech diver
                        BoD Puget Sound Anglers North Olympic Peninsula Chapter
                        Kevin

                        Comment


                          #13
                          I had difficulty cleaning it, but I lubed it, and it still stays up when put in reverse, so the switch stays depressed. In fact, the W won't budge when it is in gear. And when I put it in forward, it too stays such that the switch is depressed. So, my next question ...I've included in the photo.



                          The only way I can see this would work, is if the squeezing pressure releases when the dogs are fully engaged. Is this how it works?
                          "B on D C", is a 1989 2459 Trophy Offshore HT, OMC 5.7L, Cobra OD, Yamaha 15hp kicker. Lots of toys! I'm no mechanic, just a blue water sailer and woodworker who loves deep sea fishing.
                          MMSI: 367637220
                          HAM: KE7TTR
                          TDI tech diver
                          BoD Puget Sound Anglers North Olympic Peninsula Chapter
                          Kevin

                          Comment


                            #14
                            Something limiting the control ... in other words the control moving fully to reverse, or is something amiss, take it apart.
                            Be good, be happy, for tomorrow is promised to no man !

                            1994 2452, 5.0l, Alpha gen. 2 drive. Sold ! Sold ! Sold !

                            '86 / 19' Citation cuddy, Merc. 3.0L / 140 hp 86' , stringer drive. Sold ! Sold ! Sold !

                            Manalapan N.J

                            Comment


                              #15
                              "CptCrunchie" post=820291 wrote:
                              I had difficulty cleaning it, but I lubed it, and it still stays up when put in reverse, so the switch stays depressed.

                              [color]blue wrote:
                              A depressed switch is what stumbles the ignition in order to lower engine speed.

                              But let's back up for just a minute.

                              The ESA system is in place to assist a shift from gear back into neutral...... it is NOT there to assist a shift into gear.

                              Why...... because intrinsically the Dog Clutch will engage very easily.... but it also wants to remain engaged.

                              The engagement teeth (not the gear teeth) are ramped (i.e., cut at a slight incline) that holds engagement while under load.

                              By stumbling the engine, the load relaxes just long enough for gear disengagement. [/color]

                              In fact, the W won't budge when it is in gear. And when I put it in forward, it too stays such that the switch is depressed. So, my next question ...I've included in the photo.

                              The only way I can see this would work, is if the squeezing pressure releases when the dogs are fully engaged. Is this how it works?

                              [color]blue wrote:
                              I am not following your "squeezing pressure" analogy! Please explain!

                              The ESA (electronic shift assist) is intended to create relaxed Dog Clutch engagement so that a shift from gear back Into Neutral may occur. [/color]
                              [color]blue wrote:
                              I'm not sure what you are calling the W.

                              The cam arm (or cam lever) should momentarily activate the micro switch during cable jacket resistance.

                              The cable jacket resistance should only occur when the dog clutch teeth are under load and are resisting separation.

                              The load is produced by the propeller's resistance in the water (i.e., the hull is moving more slowly than what the prop wants it to be moving) .

                              This is why the ESA adjustment is ALWAYS made while the boat is in the water...... not in the shop!!!!!!

                              As the cable itself is trying to move the Dog Clutch sliding sleeve (i.e., separate the engagement teeth), the cable's outer jacket feels the resisting force.

                              This force is applied to the cam arm/lever, of which in turn activates the micro switch via the little roller tip arm.

                              When the micro switch causes the engine speed to drop momentarily, the Dog Clutch teeth let go......, the outer cable jacket resistance ceases......, the cam lever returns to the spring-loaded center position......, and all else goes back to normal.

                              Your task is to find out what is causing the resistance to remain even after a gear selection has been made.

                              [/color]
                              Rick E. Gresham, Oregon
                              2850 Bounty Sedan Flybridge model
                              Twin 280 HP 5.7's w/ Closed Cooling
                              Volvo Penta DuoProp Drives
                              Kohler 4 CZ Gen Set

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