Battery Charger and Wiiring Diagram-gctid819210

[Hawk]

Hi,

I need to obtain operating instruction and associated wiring diagrams for the Battery Charger and how it's wired up for a Cirera 8 2016 build, unfortunately nothing was supplied with the boat, I've tried to google for them but no joy, I've also sent two email enquiries directly to Bayliner, but disappointingly no reply, unfortunately getting support in the UK can be difficult at times.

Any advice or links would be appreciated

[2850Bounty]

Is this boat equipped with two battery banks and an MBSS?

.

[2850Bounty]

Is this boat equipped with two battery banks and an MBSS (main battery selector switch)?

.

[Hawk]

"2850Bounty" post=819218 wrote:
Is this boat equipped with two battery banks and an MBSS (main battery selector switch)?

.

Yes it has two batteries, and a off, 1, 1&2, 2 selection switch

The main reason I want to check it out is because it seems that the batteries only charge from the AC Shore Power when the switch is selected to 1&2 and I'm not sure if this is correct

[builderdude]

If your On board charger is a two bank charger and is wired correctly it won't matter what position the MBSS is in, if your plugged into shore power and the on board chargers breaker is turned on you should be charging both banks.

When charging via the engines alternator you will need to select which bank(s) you would like to charge, house, start, or both.

I guess I get to post up Ricks image again, man I'm gonna owe him big time :lol:





Attached files

[Hawk]

"builderdude" post=819251 wrote:
If your On board charger is a two bank charger and is wired correctly it won't matter what position the MBSS is in, if your plugged into shore power and the on board chargers breaker is turned on you should be charging both banks.

When charging via the engines alternator you will need to select which bank(s) you would like to charge, house, start, or both.

I guess I get to post up Ricks image again, man I'm gonna owe him big time :lol:

[attachment]39608 wrote:
image.jpeg[/attachment]

This seems like how I would expect it to be connected, but the Ciera 8 appears to be different, I am trying to check each outcome step by step but it is a slow process without a diagram,

Results confirmed so far:

If the MBSS is set to bank 2 only and the Shore Power Battery Charger is on,

The batteries will continue to drain down,

Not receive any charge,

Engine will enventually not turn over,

If the switch is then turned to bank 1, so that the engine can be started, then immediately turned back to bank 2, bank 2 batteries receive a charge, I have checked this out twice just to be 100% so on bank 2 only:

1. All 12v works

2. Batteries receive a charge from the engine alternator

3. Batteries don't receive a charge from the AC Charger

I have not yet tried this with the MBSS set to bank 1, but I see no reason for it to be any different to setting 2.

With the MBSS to to position 1&2

1. All 12v works

2. Batteries receive a charge from the engine alternator

3. Batteries receive a charge from the AC Charger

I can't see why the AC Charger only charges when 1&2 is selected surely it should work at any setting, all is ok if left set to 1&2 but it's one more thing to remember to do before leaving the boat for long periods.

The reason for needing a constant 12v switched on, the fridge is 12v only so has a slow constant drain on the batteries.

[2850Bounty]

"Hawk" post=819247 wrote:

"2850Bounty" post=819218 wrote:
Is this boat equipped with two battery banks and an MBSS (main battery selector switch)?

.

Yes it has two batteries, and a off, 1, 1&2, 2 selection switch

The main reason I want to check it out is because it seems that the batteries only charge from the AC Shore Power when the switch is selected to 1&2 and I'm not sure if this is correct.

[color]blue wrote:
I agree...... if that is the case, it is NOT correct.

The MBSS should not need to be in any certain position in order for the O/B Charger to send it's charge rate to the battery banks.

Look at my schematic again (post #3 and #4).

You will see that the O/B Charger "charge leads" make a permanent connection to the MBSS terminals #1 and #2.

These two terminals lead directly to each battery bank's Positive post.

Ideally, the MBSS would be in the OFF, #1 or #2 position during charging. (avoid ALL/BOTH position during charging)

[/color]

[Hawk]

Many thanks for the replies, my next stage is to print all these and arrange to meet a recommended Marine Electrician on the boat to get it rectified, the charger, batteries, and MBSS are all very close together, so hopefully it will only require a connection change or some extra local wiring.

[builderdude]

You do have an on board two bank battery charger?

If it's only a single bank charger and it's been wired to the #1 lug at the MBSS or directly to the #1 (start) battery it would perform as you have described.

[Hawk]

I've now left it on Battery Bank 1 with the shore Power connected and the Charger on, basically the same as when it was on Bank 2, so will see what the result is at the weekend.

Just got hold of a Manual Supplement that states:

BMSS Positions:

1 - Engine Alternator Charges Battery 1, Battery Charger Charges Both.

2 - Engine Alternator Charges Battery 2, Battery Charger Charges Both.

1&2 - Engine Alternator Charges Battery Both, Battery Charger Charges Both.

This ties up with the Schematic, however It does have a notice that battery installation is carried out by the dealer so the configuration may vary, so I need to check with them.

Many thanks for all your help!

[2850Bounty]

"Hawk" post=819547 wrote:
I've now left it on Battery Bank 1 with the shore Power connected and the Charger on, basically the same as when it was on Bank 2, so will see what the result is at the weekend.

Just got hold of a Manual Supplement that states:

BMSS Positions:

Selection #1 - Engine Alternator Charges Battery 1,

[color]blue wrote:
That is correct![/color]

Battery Charger Charges Both.

[color]blue wrote:
If a 2 bank charger, and if each charge lead connects to MBSS terminals #1 and #2, yes![/color]

Selection #2 - Engine Alternator Charges Battery 2,

[color]blue wrote:
That is correct![/color]

Battery Charger Charges Both.

[color]blue wrote:
If a 2 bank charger, and if each charge lead connects to MBSS terminals #1 and #2, yes![/color]

Selection ALL/BOTH - Engine Alternator Charges Battery Both, Battery Charger Charges Both.

[color]blue wrote:
Yes, but when "combined" as such, the charger/alternator "regulator" cannot sense each bank individually.

I would suggest that you avoid selecting ALL/BOTH .[/color]

This ties up with the Schematic, however It does have a notice that battery installation is carried out by the dealer so the configuration may vary, so I need to check with them.

[color]blue wrote:
This may very well be the weak link.

I'd be willing to bet that they do this as simply and cheaply as possible.[/color]

.

[Hawk]

"2850Bounty" post=819551 wrote:

"Hawk" post=819547 wrote:
I've now left it on Battery Bank 1 with the shore Power connected and the Charger on, basically the same as when it was on Bank 2, so will see what the result is at the weekend.

Just got hold of a Manual Supplement that states:

BMSS Positions:

Selection #1 - Engine Alternator Charges Battery 1,

[color]blue wrote:
That is correct![/color]

Battery Charger Charges Both.

[color]blue wrote:
If a 2 bank charger, and if each charge lead connects to MBSS terminals #1 and #2, yes![/color]

Selection #2 - Engine Alternator Charges Battery 2,

[color]blue wrote:
That is correct![/color]

Battery Charger Charges Both.

[color]blue wrote:
If a 2 bank charger, and if each charge lead connects to MBSS terminals #1 and #2, yes![/color]

Selection ALL/BOTH - Engine Alternator Charges Battery Both, Battery Charger Charges Both.

[color]blue wrote:
Yes, but when "combined" as such, the charger/alternator "regulator" cannot sense each bank individually.

I would suggest that you avoid selecting ALL/BOTH .[/color]

This ties up with the Schematic, however It does have a notice that battery installation is carried out by the dealer so the configuration may vary, so I need to check with them.

[color]blue wrote:
This may very well be the weak link.

I'd be willing to bet that they do this as simply and cheaply as possible.[/color]

.

"Selection ALL/BOTH - Engine Alternator Charges Battery Both, Battery Charger Charges Both.

Yes, but when "combined" as such, the charger/alternator "regulator" cannot sense each bank individually.

I would suggest that you avoid selecting ALL/BOTH" .

Unfortunately with the present set-up this seems to be the only setting that allows the batteries to charge from AC Charger, however I have not managed to confirm how it works on position 1 only yet!

Just a thought, if the AC charger is connected direct to battery bank 1, it would charge from the AC charger at position OFF as well as position 1? if so would position 1&2 by default allow the charge to reach bank 2 via the common connection to bank 1?

I am pretty sure it is a duel bank AC charger, but somehow not utilised correctly.

Also the manual stated a couple of equipment damage warnings:

Do Not turn the BMSS off with the engine running, this I can understand to protect the alternator, as the switch would need to be on 1, 1&2 or 2 to start the engine, TBH there would be no reason to turn it back off.

Do Not use the AC charger with the engine running, not sure how you could guarantee/remember every time to turn the AC charger off so this would never happen, many a time I have turned the engine over while still connected to Shore Power, in fact the guy doing the handover did it, and didn't check if the AC charger was on, could this be one of those protect against all possible, but very unlikely outcome statements?

"This ties up with the Schematic, however It does have a notice that battery installation is carried out by the dealer so the configuration may vary, so I need to check with them.

This may very well be the weak link.

I'd be willing to bet that they do this as simply and cheaply as possible."

You could be right on the money!

Cheers.

[Hawk]

I am pretty sure it is a duel bank AC charger, but somehow not utilised correctly.

"This must be determined before we take it any further"

I agree, and thanks for highlighting this!, hopefully I can confirm this after the weekend.

I would also appreciate your thoughts on this statement from the manual:

"CAUTION: Engine and Electrical System Damage Hazard: Never run your boats engine and the battery charger at the same time."

Not sure how you could guarantee/remember every time to turn the AC charger off so this would never happen, many a time I have turned the engine over while still connected to Shore Power, in fact the guy doing the handover did it, and didn't check if the AC charger was on,

Could this be one of those protect against all possible, but very unlikely outcome statements?

[Hawk]

I've left the MBSS on position 1 for an extended period under the same conditions as I did for position 2, on position 1 the battery is still at a healthy charge state, so it would seem that the AC Charger is only connected directly to the battery1 or the BMSS terminal1.

Therefore is it likely that by default connection battery bank 2 is receiving a charge from the AC Charger only when the BMSS is set to position 1&2.

The Charger is not positioned in the easiest accessible place, so what do I need to look for to confirm if it's single or duel bank, there are a lot of cables bunched together in this area, and I am not that keen (unless I've no other option) undoing cable ties to try and trace out routes etc.

Cheers.

[Hawk]

"2850Bounty" post=819913 wrote:

"Hawk" post=819910 wrote:
I've left the MBSS on position 1 for an extended period under the same conditions as I did for position 2, on position 1 the battery is still at a healthy charge state, so it would seem that the AC Charger is only connected directly to the battery1 or the BMSS terminal1.

[color]blue wrote:
Roll up your sleeves and take a look.[/color]

Therefore is it likely that by default connection battery bank 2 is receiving a charge from the AC Charger only when the BMSS is set to position 1&2.

[color]blue wrote:
Possibly...... but you'll want to verify.[/color]

The Charger is not positioned in the easiest accessible place, so what do I need to look for to confirm if it's single or duel bank,

[color]blue wrote:
You will look at the model number data that states either single or dual bank charger, and you will look for 1 or 2 output leads.[/color]

there are a lot of cables bunched together in this area, and I am not that keen (unless I've no other option) undoing cable ties to try and trace out routes etc.

[color]blue wrote:
Time well worth spending.[/color]

Cheers.

Many thanks!

I will head off back to the boat and "Roll up my sleeves and take a look"

Cheers.