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AQ280 - Oil in upper bellows and scoring in intermediate housing-gctid818687

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    AQ280 - Oil in upper bellows and scoring in intermediate housing-gctid818687

    Greetings again all

    1983 Ciera 2150 w/fresh (20 hours) 305 and AQ280 Outdrive.

    I replaced the engine 2 seasons back, and she has been running like a champ.

    During the engine swap, I found there was water in the U-Joint bellows (torn), so I replaced the bearing crosses and the fwd/aft PDS bearings/seals.

    Last weekend, I started hearing a non-rhythmic clicking in the area of the outdrive. Searching the posts here and elsewhere, consensus pointed to the worse case scenario could be a bearing was rattling around in the PDS cavity. I always approach boat trouble-shooting as worse-case to try and alleviate major 'uh-oh's out on the water.

    I removed the upper gear housing and verified it was not coming from the outdrive. So, engine has been moved forward and next weekend, I'll be pulling the primary drive shaft to inspect (new bearings/seals are on their way.)

    What I'm wanting from you fine folks: When I pulled the upper gear housing, quite a bit of oil came out (1/8th of a quart perhaps?) of the upper U-Joint bellows. No oil on the aft seal of the PDS, so I'm pretty sure it came from the outdrive. Would this be remedied by an upper unit seal kit, or am I experiencing something more sinister than that?

    Also, after pulling the upper gear unit, I noticed 'scoring' on one side of the shaft wall in the intermediate housing where the shaft coupler resides... I have not noticed any problems or unusual noises while shifting or in gear... Not sure what would have caused this. There was a time when my son-in-law started the motor with the drive partially up... He 'says' he never took it out of neutral tho... Could this be the culprit?

    A few pics to show what I'm describing:


    Attached files


    #2
    Been a bit slow around here as its prime boating season. Hopefully one of the VP guys can chime in here.
    Dave
    Edmonds, WA
    "THE FIX"
    '93 2556
    Carbureted 383 Vortec-Bravo II 2.0:1 18 1/4x19 P

    The rebuild of my 2556 https://www.baylinerownersclub.org/f...76?view=thread
    Misc. projects thread
    https://www.baylinerownersclub.org/f...56-gctid789773

    Comment


      #3
      a bearing in your transmission went out. Not sure which one but Rick I'm sure will be your best set of eyes so to speak on this one. Good Luck.
      -Boatless-

      Bryers Cottage Marina
      Harrison Twp, MI

      Comment


        #4
        The upper gear housing is the transmission.

        The scoring within the intermediate housing was very likely caused by a previous lower unit gear failure .

        The main drive gear seal requires the bearing box to be removed. Use caution when removing the four Screws!

        The PDS bearings and seals are industry-standard.

        No need to pay the Volvo Penta prices.

        .
        Rick E. Gresham, Oregon
        2850 Bounty Sedan Flybridge model
        Twin 280 HP 5.7's w/ Closed Cooling
        Volvo Penta DuoProp Drives
        Kohler 4 CZ Gen Set

        Comment


          #5
          "2850Bounty" post=819482 wrote:
          The upper gear housing is the transmission.

          The main drive gear seal requires the bearing box to be removed. Use caution when removing the four Screws!

          .
          Could you please elaborate on the "caution" - I plan to replace the spiders in my 275 drive and steps that I anticipate doing after tranny removal are:

          1) remove the four screws retaining the clamping ring

          2) pull the clamping ring with attached u-joint and double bearing assembly away from the tranny

          3) remove the screw and bushing on the rear of the double bearing assembly that retains the u-joint shaft assembly

          4) pull the u-joint free from the clamping ring

          5) service the u-joint assembly

          Assembly would simply be the reverse of the above. I'm not anticipating having to remove the double bearing assembly from the clamping ring, so none of the shims, etc., should be dislodged. Is there something I'm missing that I should be careful about??
          1986 Capri 1950 Cuddy
          AQ131A / 275
          (original owner)

          Comment


            #6
            "djhinca" post=819518 wrote:
            "2850Bounty" post=819482 wrote:
            The upper gear housing is the transmission.

            The main drive gear seal requires the bearing box to be removed. Use caution when removing the four Screws!

            [color]blue wrote:
            I voice dictated that to my iPhone. I spoke the words the "Cap Screws", and it capitalized the S in screws.

            It should have read "cap screws"![/color]
            Could you please elaborate on the "caution" - I plan to replace the spiders in my 275 drive and steps that I anticipate doing after tranny removal are:

            1) remove the four screws retaining the clamping ring.

            [color]blue wrote:
            Yes, the four hex socket head Cap Screws. Heat is used to expand the female thread inserts.

            If you round out the hex sockets, you'll be visiting a machine shop and a milling machine. [/color]

            2) pull the clamping ring with attached u-joint and double bearing assembly away from the tranny

            [color]blue wrote:
            Yes, the universal shaft, main drive gear, etc. as to gain access to the fastener that holds the male yoke into the main drive gear.[/color]

            3) remove the screw and bushing on the rear of the double bearing assembly that retains the u-joint shaft assembly

            [color]blue wrote:
            See above.[/color]

            4) pull the u-joint free from the clamping ring

            [color]blue wrote:
            You'll be pulling the male yoke forward and out of the main drive gear.[/color]

            5) service the u-joint assembly

            [color]blue wrote:
            The 280 will use the Spicer 5-1306X bearing crosses.[/color]

            Assembly would simply be the reverse of the above. I'm not anticipating having to remove the double bearing assembly from the clamping ring,

            [color]blue wrote:
            You must in order to replace two O-rings.... one on either side of the BB collar.

            You would be wise to examine the 31307 bearing as well. [/color]

            so none of the shims, etc., should be dislodged.

            [color]blue wrote:
            They will be disturbed..... so use caution.[/color]

            Is there something I'm missing that I should be careful about??

            [color]blue wrote:
            Yes..... the four cap screw hex sockets. Use Propane or Mapp Gas heat at the main gear case!

            Like said..... if you round out the sockets, you'll have an expensive machine shop bill to pay.

            And no...... drilling the heads out via "drill press" is not an option. [/color]
            .
            Rick E. Gresham, Oregon
            2850 Bounty Sedan Flybridge model
            Twin 280 HP 5.7's w/ Closed Cooling
            Volvo Penta DuoProp Drives
            Kohler 4 CZ Gen Set

            Comment


              #7
              Here are a few of my images that may be helpful. These are in no specific order.

              Here is an image of the cap screw socket heads.

              I suggest that you apply heat to the area where the threads are housed before attempting to remove these 4 cap screws!

              Just in front of each of the 4 heads will be 4 sealing washers and 4 very delicate sealing washer aluminum shoulders.

              (with the 280, these should be considered wet area bolts)

              If you do accidentally round-out a socket head, have the remaining fragment milled out..... and DO NOT attempt to drill it out!

              If one of these delicate aluminum shoulders was to become damaged, water may enter the universal drive shaft area.


              There is a way to remove and replace the AFT-most bearing cross without pulling the clamping collar and main drive gear.


              Attached files

              Rick E. Gresham, Oregon
              2850 Bounty Sedan Flybridge model
              Twin 280 HP 5.7's w/ Closed Cooling
              Volvo Penta DuoProp Drives
              Kohler 4 CZ Gen Set

              Comment


                #8
                Thanks Rick for a beautifully clear explanation! I'll heed your warnings and try the drift pin approach first. I assume that it would be prudent to block up the opposite side of the yoke prior to driving out the caps, so you don't apply excessive side loads to the bearing box..
                1986 Capri 1950 Cuddy
                AQ131A / 275
                (original owner)

                Comment


                  #9
                  "djhinca" post=819560 wrote:
                  Thanks Rick for a beautifully clear explanation! I'll heed your warnings and try the drift pin approach first.

                  I assume that it would be prudent to block up the opposite side of the yoke prior to driving out the caps, so you don't apply excessive side loads to the bearing box. .
                  [color]blue wrote:
                  While we can R&R the bearing crosses this way, I don't recommend it because it circumvents the main drive gear seal replacement and taking a look at the 30207 and 31307 bearings.[/color]

                  .

                  .
                  Rick E. Gresham, Oregon
                  2850 Bounty Sedan Flybridge model
                  Twin 280 HP 5.7's w/ Closed Cooling
                  Volvo Penta DuoProp Drives
                  Kohler 4 CZ Gen Set

                  Comment


                    #10
                    One final comment based upon my review of the 280 Workshop Manual: in the event the BB needs service and new gears, seals, etc., installed, the proper adjustment of backlash, gear teeth contact, preload, etc., definitely sounds like something beyond the average "shade tree" mechanic (me...).
                    1986 Capri 1950 Cuddy
                    AQ131A / 275
                    (original owner)

                    Comment


                      #11
                      Thank you again Rick (and everyone!) for continuing to guide us through uncharted areas

                      I will be taking care of the transmission issues as soon as all parts are in... I heeded your advice when I dropped the new motor in two years ago and learned quickly that a propane torch is indeed my best friend when tackling 30 year old bolts.

                      Here's where things sit now:

                      I pulled the seals/bearings/PDS and could not locate anything that would be the cause of the 'clicking'. Bearings (20 hours of use) were still tight and there was nothing in the PDS cavity except lots of grease.

                      I did find some nastiness in the FC tho... This crack is right around the area of the front bearing/clip:




                      So here I am again scratching my head as to what the culprit here might be...

                      Perhaps I damaged the FC when I drove the PDS in two years ago and the crack continued until it was causing the 'clicking' that brought it to my attention?

                      Here's a short vid of the clicking... This was after I pulled the transmission to rule out the stern drive, (before I knew about about the crack):

                      https://youtu.be/kciR7pjvbh8

                      So, obviously, there's a new FC in my immediate future, but I'm hoping someone can shed some light on what might have happened here, and if this IS the culprit causing the clicking...

                      Dave

                      Comment

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