Mechanical assistance needed for raising OD-gctid817491

[CptCrunchie]

Last Wednesday: Everything was working fine when we left the dock, but when I returned, the OD wouldn't raise. I wiggled the throttle, etc. Everything I tried, failed. Called my OMC mechanic, and he suggested I check the fuses. I didn't know which of the two it was, so I checked both and they were fine. I tried the trim and it worked. I thought it was just a loose connection, and that I'd fixed it. Mechanic also said the problem is likely with the connections on the engine, and not with the 'shift lever'.

This morning: Same thing happened. Wiggled the shifter while pressing the up button, and nothing. Did the fuse thing, and it still didn't work. I finally shorted across the 'raise solenoid' (#4 in the photo) and the OD came up. Suggestions what the problem could be? Might it be the solenoid? If so, where might I find another one?



Also, what are #1 and #2 in the photo?

Kevin

[Ruffryder]

check for 12VDC power at the solenoid with the up & down switch depressed. yes most likely it is the solenoid.

[builderdude]

1&2 are just muti wire connections, check those for good clean connection. The solenoids are fairly inexpensive if it ends up being the issue. They can work then not then work again.

[CptCrunchie]

After reading Solandri's problems with his outdrive trim, I realized my problem may not be the solenoid. While I couldn't raise the OD when I got back to the dock, mine wouldn't go down either. Pressing either switch, nothing happened. So, I'm now thinking this likely isn't the solenoid.

What else might be causing this? I shorted across the solenoid terminals to raise it, but does that mean the solenoid is bad?

Might it be the switch that won't allow me to start it in gear? If so, I have no clue where it is, nor what it looks like.

Also, I guess wherever the switch on the shift/throttle lever is getting power could be the culprit. Where does it get power from?

Does the fuse under #1 in the photo connect power to both the up and down?

[Solandri]

Wiring diagram in your service manual.

http://bayliner.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/06/1989-Ciera-Trophy.pdf

It's wired similar to mine. Looks like a common power lead to a whole bunch of stuff, so you'd lose a lot of gauges, starter, etc. if that disconnected. Check the red-pink wire to make sure it's still carrying 12V. That's the common power lead for the trim up/down. (There might be a fuse as well. There isn't one in the wiring diagram, but the mechanic friend of a helpful bystander said there's often a fuse in-line in the engine compartment with these.)

I'm somewhat bemused that we're now up to 3 OD trim/tilt problems posted here in one day.

[builderdude]

Crunchie, you tested both solenoids? 3&4 one for up & one for down.

If you short across the large set of lugs on one solenoid and the drive tilts then you've got power at the solenoid. If you energies one of the small terminals (positive terminal only the other is a negative) and the drive tilts then again the solenoid is working. There should be a fuse near the solenoids that if bad will not send power to the helm switch. I think #1 is that fuse.

[CptCrunchie]

"builderdude" post=817586 wrote:
Crunchie, you tested both solenoids? 3&4 one for up & one for down.

If you short across the large set of lugs on one solenoid and the drive tilts then you've got power at the solenoid. If you energies one of the small terminals (positive terminal only the other is a negative) and the drive tilts then again the solenoid is working. There should be a fuse near the solenoids that if bad will not send power to the helm switch. I think #1 is that fuse.

Let me take these one at a time.

"builderdude" post=817586 wrote:
Crunchie, you tested both solenoids? 3&4 one for up & one for down.

I shorted across the big terminals of each one, and both worked, up and down.

"builderdude" post=817586 wrote:
If you energies one of the small terminals (positive terminal only the other is a negative) and the drive tilts then again the solenoid is working.

This I haven't done. So, I use a jumper from the battery to the small terminal. If it works, it isn't the solenoid. I'll try that.

"builderdude" post=817586 wrote:
There should be a fuse near the solenoids that if bad will not send power to the helm switch. I think #1 is that fuse.

#1 is just a plug. The fuses are directly below that. Both are good, and are making a solid connection when attached. This is one of the three things my OMC mech suggested I try. Oddly, what he suggested worked a week ago, but it didn't yesterday.

[CptCrunchie]

"Solandri" post=817585 wrote:
Wiring diagram in your service manual.

http://bayliner.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/06/1989-Ciera-Trophy.pdf

It's wired similar to mine. Looks like a common power lead to a whole bunch of stuff, so you'd lose a lot of gauges, starter, etc. if that disconnected. Check the red-pink wire to make sure it's still carrying 12V. That's the common power lead for the trim up/down. (There might be a fuse as well. There isn't one in the wiring diagram, but the mechanic friend of a helpful bystander said there's often a fuse in-line in the engine compartment with these.)

I'm somewhat bemused that we're now up to 3 OD trim/tilt problems posted here in one day.

There's pink wire in there? You mean the one on top in my photo?

I have that schematic, and while I understand it, it doesn't tell me exactly what to look for. Since the original engine was replaced with a rebuilt 5.7, and the OD was rebuilt at the same time, I've discovered that a number of the wires have been either replaced or completely taped over. I've wiggled all the wires on the top of the engine while the tilt button was held down, and nothing happened. I'm guessing it isn't because of a poor connection.

Now, from what you wrote, I have been having issues with my tach. It quit a while back due to the plug on the back popping off, but it quit again since. I've ignored this problem because I've learned what fuel consumption I get at various speeds, so I haven't really needed it. (This fall, I plan to completely revamp my helm in favor of adding a http://www.nolandeng.com/rs11.php wr...data converter connected to my chart plotter, thereby never needing to use the gauges.) Might these two problems be related?

[builderdude]

Jumping across the two large terminals will work even if the solenoid is bad. A jumper wire from a +12 volt source to one of the small terminals on the solenoid. Make sure you figure out which small terminal to energize as one is positive from the helm switch and the other is a negative .

[Solandri]

"CptCrunchie" post=817601 wrote:
There's pink wire in there? You mean the one on top in my photo?

Red with pink stripe according to your manual (mine is red with purple stripe, whee). I wrote that when you said you thought it wasn't the solenoid, so I was thinking it may be a break in your 12 V control wire to the switch.

I did find a Bravo service manual online and skimming through it and examining the wiring, I think I understand how the circuit works, at least on mine.

[ul]

[li] Trim down switch to down solenoid.[/li]

[li] Trailer switch connects to up line when engaged, trailer line connects to up solenoid.[/li]

[li] Trim up switch goes to the outdrive, where it connects the trailer line (thus allowing it to control the up solenoid).[/li]

[li] - When you trim up past a certain angle, the trailer line disconnects from trim up line (preventing you from trimming too far up).[/li]

[li] - Pressing the trailer switch runs trim up control current directly to the up solenoid (bypassing the outdrive and its angle sensor) , allowing you to trim up all the way when you press both trailer and trim up.[/li]

[/ul]

You say yours won't trim down either? The only thing up and down have in common is the 12 V positive control line leading to the switch. That's the red/pink one. Both the trim up and trim down switch connect to it when you press the switch either way. Aside from that, up and down command completely separate solenoids. Since it's highly unlikely you had a coincidental double solenoid failure, that leaves the red/pink wire as the main suspect. Check to make sure it's carrying 12 V at the switch. (The main power to the solenoids and trim motor are shared too, but since it works when you shorted the solenoid, we've determined that these are not faulty.)

The service manual also suggests trying to clean all the contacts to the solenoid. Mine is pretty gunked up with grease so I'll try that, though at this point I suspect it's a faulty solenoid (clicks but no joy).

I have that schematic, and while I understand it, it doesn't tell me exactly what to look for. Since the original engine was replaced with a rebuilt 5.7, and the OD was rebuilt at the same time, I've discovered that a number of the wires have been either replaced or completely taped over. I've wiggled all the wires on the top of the engine while the tilt button was held down, and nothing happened. I'm guessing it isn't because of a poor connection.

Tell me about it. My purple-white wire (trim up) goes into a nondescript black sheath which went into a massive bundle of wires which had been folded together and cable tied together.. Had loads of fun tracing that. I think I'm going to start putting labels on some of these wires so I don't waste hours tracing them next time.

It did eventually lead me to where my trim motor was - behind the battery, nowhere near the engine or outdrive. In retrospect I should've been tracing the hydraulic fluid lines to the outdrive, instead of wiring.

Now, from what you wrote, I have been having issues with my tach.

I've given up on my tach problem for now since my lower helm tach works. A bit of research into the problem turned up that these old analog gauges that get finicky with age can sometimes be fixed by adding a diode or resistor to the positive terminal. But right now that's about #72 on my list of things to fix.

[CptCrunchie]

"Solandri" post=817641 wrote:


[li] Trailer switch connects to up line when engaged, trailer line connects to up solenoid.[/li]

What is a trailer switch? Your boat hooks to your trailer?

"Solandri" post=817641 wrote:
You say yours won't trim down either? The only thing up and down have in common is the 12 V positive control line leading to the switch. That's the red/pink one. Both the trim up and trim down switch connect to it when you press the switch either way. Aside from that, up and down command completely separate solenoids. Since it's highly unlikely you had a coincidental double solenoid failure, that leaves the red/pink wire as the main suspect. Check to make sure it's carrying 12 V at the switch. (The main power to the solenoids and trim motor are shared too, but since it works when you shorted the solenoid, we've determined that these are not faulty.)

I'd agree that it was the main switch power if everything else on that line didn't work, ....which would include starting the engine, as well as number off helm switches.

"Solandri" post=817641 wrote:
The service manual also suggests trying to clean all the contacts to the solenoid. Mine is pretty gunked up with grease so I'll try that, though at this point I suspect it's a faulty solenoid (clicks but no joy).

Mine are clean.

I still need to try Dave's idea about powering the small terminal on the solenoids, though I'm fairly sure the solenoids are okay. I need to trace the wires leading to the buttons on the shift lever. Since the engine trim should work whether the engine is running and/or while is in gear, I have a feeling it is a power issue.

Looking at the schematic....

[attachment]39168 wrote:
2459Schematic.png[/attachment]

...it appears there is a blue/white, a green/white and possibly a brown/white wire all connected to the trim. I'm guessing at least 2 of them are connected to the buttons on the shift lever. Might you now where the other end of them are? If I could find those, I could press the button and test for power with my multimeter. At least I could somewhat isolate the problem, or at minimum, dismiss the lack of power at the switch as a possibility.