Tabman, please help with my ATC installation-gctid817240

[MonteVista]

Tabman, I tried to install Auto Tab Control ATC 3000 on my boat but I could not get it to work at all. Here is what I have (original) and what I tried, and failed to make work:



All wiring is done with correct color code; Red = Starboard solenoid, Green = Port Solenoid, Blue = Pump Forward, Yellow = Pump Reverse. I have verified all existing and new wiring, tested and measured voltages so I believe them to be correct. With the ATC connected, nothing happens when I push the manual switches. However, if I connect the wire from manual switches directly to the wires going to the trim pump (i.e. bypass the ATC system) the tabs function correctly. I verified this using all the wires and connectors so nothing wrong with those. When I operate the manual switches I see 13.1 volts at the output of the ATC Control unit at the connector C; Correct Red, Green, Blue, Yellow pins show 13.1v on them depending upon which manual switch is operated. However only the Red and Yellow signals coming out of the wire labeled "Y" are present but the Blue and Yellow signals do not show any sign of life even though the ATC Relay is receiving the Blue and Yellow signals from the "C" connector of the ATC Control. I did not try connecting the "C" connector directly to the trim pump (without the ATC Relay) as I fear that might damage the ATC Control unit.

The ATC Control pad is connected to the ATC Control unit as indicated however I had to cut and splice wires to the connecting cable as that cable was not long enough. When the power was first turned on, the ATC Control pad had a blue LED showing. I pressed the two set buttons for a few seconds and the blue light went off. I believe this indicates system has been reset with the boat's current attitude recorded as the desired attitude. However, what concerns me is that the ATC control pad's red LED just flickers once but does not stay on when I press and hold its ON/OFF button. I am not 100% sure which wires of the ATC Relay are meant to be connected to the ATC Control and which are meant to be connected to the pump since these are not labeled on the relay. However, one set of wires has a 4-pin male connector and the other has a 4-pin female connector on it and since the ATC Control connectors are both 4-pin female connectors I am assuming the 4-pin male connector of the relay should be connected to the ATC control.

It appears I may have both the relay and the ATC control not functioning right. The ATC Relay receives the Red, Green, Blue and Yellow signals from the ATC control and I hear a soft click of the relay but the Blue and Yellow signals are not active at the relay output wires. I also suspect something is not right with the ATC control since its red LED does not remain lit when I press and hold the ON/OFF button.

I purchased the ATC unit in the USA and brought it with me to Turkey where my boat is. I shall return back to the USA at the end of October but I can ask a family member to receive and bring to me new module(s) if you believe they may have gone bad.


Attached files

[Tabman]

Just to be certain the system should be installed this way:

atc

And if you use the factory supplied plugs on the relay it should be in the correct orientation.

The relay is just that a relay and you can test it just like you would the pump to see if it is working properly and rule it out as having a problem.I would recommend that.

Tom

Bennett Marine

[Tabman]

Also note that the on off needs to be held down for about 3 seconds to work.

Tom

Bennett Marine

[Tabman]

Also let's test the 12 v input black and orange wires on the relay as well as its output on the Blue, Yellow, Red and Green wires.

Should be:

Red= Port Valve

Green= Starboard Valve

Blue=Motor Forward (pump pressure)

Yellow= Motor Reverse (pump retract)

When the the controls are pushed:

blue, red= Port trim tab down

blue, green=Starboard trim tab down

blue, red, green= Both trim tabs down

yellow, red= Port trim tab up

yellow, green=Starboard trim tab up

yellow, red, green= Both trim tabs up

Tom

[MonteVista]

Tabman,

Indeed the connections are exactly as indicated on the manual, my own drawing makes it easy to reference the various points along the way. All wiring and connectors are checked/rechecked. Indeed, I can bypass the ATC and use all of the wires and connectors and they all check out. I wire the connector at the end of wire (4-wires) from A to B directly to the wire (4-wires) going to the pump and the tabs function correctly with the manual controls. So, I am certain the wires/colors are good.

I hold the ON/OFF button for 3 seconds and when I release it the red light just blinks. I do this with all other connecters disconnected from the ATC control unit, except its power/GND and the control wire to the ATC pad. At least the red light should remain on, no?

I am going to check if the GND is a good GND.

Thanks,

[MonteVista]

Tabman,

I still can't get it to work. I checked and verified all the wiring. There are two separate (but may be linked) issues.

1 - With ATC Control unit receiving power and the only other connection on it is the cable connecting it to the ATC Control tab, the RED LED blinks but does NOT remain on. Holding the two set buttons for about 6 seconds causes the BLUE LED to blink and turns off. So, system appears reset but can not be turned on.

2 - The relay module wires have not been labeled on the relay. So, it is hard to tell which 4 (red, green, yellow, blue) are the inputs to the relay and which 4 are outputs. Yet, these wires are terminated with a male connecter on one set, and female connector on the other set. The control unit has two sets of connectors, both are male connectors. So, there is only one way to connect the relay to the ATC Control unit. I have connected the relay module's female connector to the appropriate (as per the diagram) male connector on the ATC module. I have also connected the wires coming from the manual control switches, via the wire the 6-ft harness that terminates with a female connector to the appropriate (as per the diagram) male connector on the ATC Control unit. I also connect the male connector from the relay module to the pigtail that has a female connector at one end and connect the pigtail's wires at its open end to the 4-colored wires going to the pump/solenoid. All of this is done exactly as the ATC diagram shows. The only difference is I have interchanged the 4-wire pigtail and the 4-wire, 6 ft harness, both of which have female connectors at one end and individual wires at the other, so the interchange should not matter. When system is set up like this nothing happens when I push the manual switches and the RED LED on the control tab blinks but does not remain on. when the ON/OFF button is pushed

I tried testing the relay without the ATC Control unit. Even though this is a bit difficult as I need to mate two female connectors to each other, it rigged something and that didn't work, regardless of which set of 4-wire bundles I treat as input to the relay and the other set would receive the wires from the manual switches.

Finally, I tried to test the relay a little bit more in depth. I do not know exactly what is inside the relay. I guessed there must be 4 separate relays, one for each color. If so, I assumed that on the input side, each incoming wire connects to its relay coil and also acts as the signal wire. All 4 coils should be connecting to the common ground, and each output wire would be connected to the corresponding input wire if the relay pulls. If so, I should see a very low resistance tweet each input wire and GND. I removed the fuse from the relay power wire and measured the resistance between each of the 4-colored wires and GND. Those Measurements showed something strange! The Red and Green wires ON THE OUTPUT SIDE!! (i.e. terminated at the male connector) show a low resistance to GND but the Red and Green wires on the input side (terminating at the female connector) show open to GND. Furthermore, none of the blue or Yellow wires show low resistance to GND. This implies there are no relay coils on these wires! I find that odd because, if anything, those colored wire would carry heavier current and should pass through a relay.

In summary, I suspect the relay module is bad and I also don't have any explanation why the control module does not remain on even without any other signal connected to it. Strangely, if I connect the 4-wires going to the tab pump/solenoid to the input to the ATC control where the 4-wires from the control switches should be connected, the ATC Control Tab Red light remains lit (I can turn it on/off by rushing the ON/OFF). I have no explanation for any of this.

I know this has turned into en engineering puzzle, not an installation issue. But so far away from the USA I have no other option but to try any/all of these to try to figure things out. I am willing to receive new relay and control unit and can return back my units. Whereas I can receive the new modules in the USA and have a friend to bring them over I can only do returns in November as that is when I come back to the USA. I do not trust the mail system here nor do I want to tackle the very high cost and formalities for international mailing of those units from Turkey to USA.

Please let me know if you see any way to enable me to make further progress. Otherwise, I will have to give up and conclude that the Bennet ATC system is far too complicated even for an individual with excellent electrical knowledge and skills, like myself, to install that on his boat.

Help me, Tabman!

[Tabman]

Just to be sure can you confirm your relay module is installed in this orientation?

relay-1

To arrange a swap like you wish you will need to contact the factory 954-427-1400.

Let me know,Tom

[MonteVista]

Tabman,

The picture of the relay you sent is similar but not identical to what I have. Here are the units I have:












I have also included the pictures of the ATC Control unit. I am away from the boat right now but here is what I remember. The 4-wire bundle from the relay module that contains the dark-blue wire is connected to the output from the ATC unit. The other connector for the ATC control unit comes from the control switches via the 6-ft harness.

I hope this helps.

Thanks,


Attached files

[MonteVista]

Tabman,

I am going away for 2 weeks (Cruise ship to Norwegian fjords) and may not be able to respond from the ship. I want to add results of a final experiment that I had performed but I didn't have time to repeat/check it to be certain. If I remember correctly, I was able to connect the manual switches to the ATC Control unit and measure the voltages on the 4 pins coming out of its other connector (going to the relay) without the relay being connected. I believe I had measured 12v on the appropriate colored 4-pins depending upon which switch and up or down that I had operated. This implies the Control unit is passing the signals from the control switches but the relay is unable to send those forward. If this is correct (I shall re-perform this experiment when I come back to my boat on July 30th) it may help identify the relay as the culprit. However, this still does not explain why the red led on the control panel blinks but does not remain lit! As I had indicated earlier the only way I could get the red led to remain lit was to connect the 4-wires connected to the tab pump/relay into the socket where the switches are to be connected! This makes no sense to me at all.

I hope we can resolve this. It will be such a shame to give up and live without the ATC on my boat.

Thanks,

[Tabman]

Let me know the results!

To be sure here are the correct disposition of the wires on the relay.

TomRelay-2-1

Tom

[Tabman]

If you put power on the blue wire and the green wire at the relay module on the wire harness side at the same time what happens? The starboard Tab should go down. Have you tried that? Testing with power directly through the relay to the pump would be the definitive test.

Red= Port Valve

Green= Starboard Valve

Blue=Motor Forward (pump pressure)

Yellow= Motor Reverse (pump retract)

(+), blue, red= Port trim tab down

(+), blue, green=Starboard trim tab down

(+), blue, red, green= Both trim tabs down

(+), yellow, red= Port trim tab up

(+), yellow, green=Starboard trim tab up

(+), yellow, red, green= Both trim tabs up

Tom

[MonteVista]

Tabman,

I had tried a bit more than that already! I connected all 4 wires coming from the tab switches to the relay (on the input side) and the tabs did not operate. I strongly suspect that the relay module is defective. However, I still don't know why the control tab red led just blinks and does not remain on when I push and hold the on/off button for a few seconds. Thus, I am suspecting that there is something wrong with that module also.

Any way, i shall beback at my boat in 2 weeks and I shall try these experiments will let you know.

Thanks,

[Tabman]

How did you buy the ATC from here in the States?

Tom

[MonteVista]

Tom,

I live in the USA and come to Turkey during the summers to live in my summer home and enjoy boating in the Mediterranean Sea waters. I purchased the ATC from Hodges Marine on 11/4/2016 and was delivered to me at my California home for $243.86. I hand carried it to Turkey. Likewise, I intend to have any replacement parts to be hand carried by a friend or family member and can return any suspect parts back after I bring them back with me after I come back from vacation. My return ticked is on 10/30/2017.

I shall perform more detailed, diagnostic tests to determine what part may be defective. Whereas I believe I can prove if the relay is defective I don't know how to explain or test or remedy the ATC control tab red led not remaining on, which means the ATC Control unit is not able to turn on.

Please give me about 2 weeks. I am wondering if we should move this discussion to PM or direct email (my email is [email protected]) so we do not unnecessarily clog the forum pages.

Thanks,

[MonteVista]

Tabman,

I am back from my trip and have finished testing my existing set up. The bottom line is I am certain that the relay module is broken/not functioning. However, there is more to my complaint than that.

The Relay Module has two sets of red/green/yellow/blue wires, one group ending with a male connector and the other with a female connector. There are no labels on the Relay Module to identify which connector is tied to the input side (i.e. the relay coils). The Control Module has two male connectors so, the only sensible thing to assume is that the female connector on the Relay Module is to be connected to the male connector on the Control Module. In other words, it appears that the female connector on the Relay Module is connected to its input side. It turns out that this is WRONG. The ATC package contains two sets of red/green/yellow/blue wires/dongles where both sets terminate in female connectors and have open wires at their other ends to allow splicing to existing wires. Apparently Bennet expects both of these to be used along the input side of the Relay Module, which in effect turns the input side terminated not in a male connector, but in a female connector. I had to use one of the 4-wire dongles to splice from my control switches to the ATC Control Module. I placed the ATC Control Module and the Relay Module right next to each other so that I could connect from the ATC Control Module directly into the Relay Module that that forced me to treat the wrong end of the Relay Module as its input. Seemed sensible but apparently wrong!

So, I cut and spliced to interchange the male and female connectors on the relay module. This allowed me to connect from the ATC Control Module directly into the input side of the Relay Module. This helped, a bit, as the red LED light on the ATC Control Pad now turns on and remains lit when I push the ON/OFF button for a few seconds. However, the system still does not function. The red LED turns off immediately when I press either of my manual trim tab control switches. Trim tabs do not operate via the control switches or automatically by the ATC Module.

I did extensive tests, which I summarize below, to prove that the Relay Module is defective. First, when I plug the control switches into the ATC Control module and measure the voltages at the ATC Control module's output pins (to be connected to the Relay Module), I see that when I push the port or starboard trim tab rocker switch, the correct combination of red or green, together with the yellow or blue output pins of the ATC Control Module show 12.6v on them. This shows that the ATC Control Module is receiving the signals from the command switches and is sending those correctly forward towards the Relay Module. Unfortunately, if the Relay Module is connected, though I can hear the relay click, no signal/voltage appears at any of the 4 pins on the Relay Module's output side. I repeated this test by directly touching the red and blue wires to 12.6v; the relay clicks and yet no voltage passes to its output. Finally, I touched each of the red/green/yellow/blue pins on the input side of the Relay Module individually to 12.6 v. The relay clicks only when either the red or green pin receives 12.6v and no click is heard if either the yellow or blue pin receives 12.6 v. In any event, no output appears from the Relay Module. I even used an ohm meter to measure the coil resistance at each input to the Relay Module. Whereas the red and green pins show low resistance between the red or green pin and DC negative, indicating presence of a coil, there is an open circuit between the yellow or blue pins and DC Negative.

So, I am certain that the relay module is defective (I made sure I can verify it is receiving proper DC position and DC negative signals) and I need to have that replaced.

Tabman, can you assist me in receiving a replacement? The easiest thing to do would be for them to send me a new Relay Module to my home address in CA, and I shall ask my daughter to bring it over to Turkey when she comes to visit here at end of August so I can install it on my boat. I can return the defective Relay Module (whose input/output connectors have been reversed by me) only upon my return back to the USA, which will be on October 30.

This has been a very long and a very frustrating experience for me. I am surprised and bothered by the lack of labeling (on the product or documentation) to identify the input and output sides of the Relay Module and I am also upset that the module turned out to be defective. I had not expected such a long and unsuccessful installation process from Bennet; I suppose it just happens!

Tabman, please help me to complete this installation and have a fully functioning ATC system on my boat.

Thanks,