Replacing aft bilge pump and float switch - wiring question-gctid816002

[tdcooper99]

So I've just bought a new Rule Gold series 2000 gph bilge pump and a Ultra junior float switch to go with it, to replace my existing aft pump in the engine room..... which is fairly small (I think only 500gph) with a non-functioning float switch wired to it. Pretty sure it's wired as described in this old thread:

http://www.baylinerownersclub.org/index.php/forum/technical-discussion/63640-bilge-pumps-on-2855

I also bought a new rule 3 way switch to go with it... auto, off or manual. BUT... I'm wondering now with my setup, and based on what I've read in the thread above... do I even need the 3-way switch? I was planning to wire it into one helm and basically leave it set to auto... but if my existing setup is currently designed/wired to be always on auto already, with either of the helm switches for over-riding that, then I presume I'll be able to wire my new pump and switch into this without pulling new wiring to a helm?

Anyone know.... or done this, with this setup on the same or similar boat?

Thanks.

[CptCrunchie]

"tdcooper99" post=816002 wrote:
I also bought a new rule 3 way switch to go with it... auto, off or manual. BUT... I'm wondering now with my setup, and based on what I've read in the thread above... do I even need the 3-way switch? I was planning to wire it into one helm and basically leave it set to auto... but if my existing setup is currently designed/wired to be always on auto already, with either of the helm switches for over-riding that, then I presume I'll be able to wire my new pump and switch into this without pulling new wiring to a helm?

I would forgo the 3-way switch, as you really don't need it. First and foremost, each bilge pump needs to be hardwired to a battery with an inline fuse.

Yes, most Bayliners have a standard switch on the helm that is connected to all the bilge pumps.

[Nickdixon]

With a float switch (auto setting), why would you need the "off" setting? When on the hard?

[builderdude]

Return the 3 position switch, it will only provide a means of accidently leaving your bilge pump(s) inoperable when you need them inch:

[2850Bounty]

"builderdude" post=816033 wrote:
Return the 3 position switch, it will only provide a means of accidently leaving your bilge pump(s) inoperable when you need them inch:

[color]blue wrote:
Ditto Dave!

And rather than returning it, please smash it and toss it into the recycle bin so that no one else gets hold of it.

A 3 position helm switch is typically powered by the hull harness.

The hull harness is NOT powered when we leave the boats unattended (i.e., MBSS turned OFF).

So..... whether we leave the 3-way switch in Auto Mode or not, it would be left with no power to supply the float switch with!

We want the main bilge pump "float switch" to have "Un-Interruptible" power when we leave our boats unattended.

Suggestion for doing so:

Take your Float Switch power from the rear of your MBSS terminal #2. (see second image below)

Terminal #2 will be a direct route to your HLBB (house load batt bank).

This will avoid a direct battery connection.

Fuse it appropriately.

You can think of your ON/OFF helm switch as an "Over-Ride" to that of your float switch circuit!

In other words, when the float switch is NOT powering the main bilge pump, the helm switch is able to.

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[attachment]38685 wrote:
Auto bilge pump switch NO 4.jpg[/attachment]

[attachment]38686 wrote:
MBSS float sw for Bill and Janice.jpg[/attachment]

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Attached files

[mr.bent]

Builderdude and 2850Bounty is absolutely right on this, always have your bilge pump connected directly to the battery and don┬┤t forget to put a fuse on the power line.

[2850Bounty]

"mr.bent" post=816057 wrote:
Builderdude and 2850Bounty is absolutely right on this, always have your bilge pump connected directly to the battery and don┬┤t forget to put a fuse on the power line.

[color]blue wrote:
Yes..... I agree...... fuse it appropriately.

However, in my book, the main bilge pump float switch would make it's connection to the MBSS terminal #2 (the HLBB)...... not directly to the battery!

Direct battery connections lead to small terminal corrosion, the dreaded Rat's Nest, and potential confusion during battery R&R!

[/color]

[tdcooper99]

Wow... thanks a lot everyone!

2850Bounty... those diagrams will be really useful! Good to know I shouldn't have to chase any other wires to my helms either... can do it all within my engine room. I'll need to make sure the gauge of the current wiring is appropriate and check the existing fuse (if there is one :whistle: ) but otherwise, seems pretty straightforward!

[tdcooper99]

So I got the new pump & switch wired in yesterday, was dead simple.... the existing float switch was already wired into the MBSS... but terminal 1... so I moved it over to terminal 2. Only had a 5a fuse too... so I wired in a new holder with the recommended 15a fuse in it... existing was all corroded anyway.

3 more questions. Old pump and float switch were screwed onto 2 raised pedestals, just off the keel line, float switch one a little higer than the pump one... see pics below.

Question 1: Do I HAVE to use these raised pedestals... or can I just put the pump directly onto the bottom. My new pump is slightly larger, so doesn't fully fit on that raised area anyway.... and I always found it annoying that it left so much water in the bilge due to being raised up.

Question 2: If I don't use the raised pedestals, obviously i need to be careful drilling new pilot holes for the screws. How thick is the hull there... Am I safe with, say, 1/2" screws... or maybe a bit more?

Question 3: As far as I can tell, there was no caulking of any sort used in the old screw holes, so there has almost certainly been water seepage into them over time. Do I need to be concerned about that? How should I seal them up? Can I dry them out with a heat gun or something then use some 5200? Or should I maybe drill them out a bit with a larger drill bit to remove any potentially water soaked material?

[builderdude]

1: you don't need to use the raised pad if you don't want, I cut mine out completely and mounted my new larger pump and float switch using aluminum flat bar bent at an angle. Many guys before me have done this.

2: don't try to screw directly into the hull bottom, you might go through inch: see # 1 and the pic.

3:dry it out with air flow over the area the best you can then drill them just a bit larger. Look at the shavings the drill bit brings out. If they're dry wood shavings then fill all those holes in with epoxy. Again, mine was mush inside so I removed it completely.





Attached files

[mr.bent]

I did like builderdude, the pedestal was completely rotten inside so I removed it and made a bracket of 316 steel and bolted it to the enginestringers, makes it easy to service the pump.B)

[captharv]

This is coming from a 50 year boater, who is a retired engineer, and past Coast Guard Auxiliary patrol commander. (ME)

My business partners boat sunk in a rainstorm at his dock on Cape Cod because of one of those ^**&% "On-Off-Auto switches. That switch is a device designed to sink boats.

Now that said, here's what MY boat has.

The pump negative is directly wired to a good ground near it. The pump + has two connections. One to the float and one to the helm for a manual switch. The other end of the float goes to an UN-Interruptible source, with a 10 amp fuse in line within 7" from the source.

The helm switch is there for overriding the float. Now here's a tip from an electronics nerd: The helm switch wire which goes to the pump gets 12V applied when EITHER the switch or the float is activated. I have a bright panel lamp and a bicycle horn style alert wired from that wire to ground. If water gets into the bilge and trips the float, the horn and lamp alerts me.

A previous boat was used for scuba diving in the keys. When leaving a dive area, the divers drippings and fresh water wash in the bilge (It wasn't a self bailing boat) would tri/p the float. The pump would jettison the water in a few seconds, but if the pump stayed on much after 10 seconds, we stopped and open a hatch. Saved my bacon once when a cooling hose split.

Now after you get the b oat wired as said above, I stall a smaller pump, say 800 GPH UNDER the engine as close to the stern as you can get it. On plane, there can be 5-10 gallons in there and not trip a float ahead of the engine. And, makes for redundancy.

Or, how long can you tread water?