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Crusader 454 cutout on accelleration-gctid812185

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    Crusader 454 cutout on accelleration-gctid812185

    So I have twin 454 crusaders (not xl) in my boat. I have this issue with the stbd engine cutting out on acceleration or holding at 3k rpms. I have all but eliminated any fuel issues (new carb, fuel pump, filters, etc). I am not looking at possible ignition issues. I have changed out the plus, cap and rotor. Would a coil going bad cause this? It also stalled after a 1.5 hour 800 rpm cruise up river and kept stalling unless I bumped the throttle up to 1100 rpm. When first starting it stars right up and will idle no problem and sounds great, it seems to be mainly on acceleration. As I said, a fuel issue has been eliminated and this does not happen on the port engine and both engines are fed from the same gas tank. Any thoughts on coil? maybe points? How often will those go bad?

    #2
    Was going to suggest carburation issue but you say you've replaced it. You could swap coils with the other engine to see if the problem follows, could do this with the distributors as well (if your knowlagable in doing so) won't cost you anything. Point type distributor could also be an issue, I'd definately put a new set of points in, that's also an inexpensive item. While its apart check for shaft play and proper operation of the advance weights etc.
    Dave
    Edmonds, WA
    "THE FIX"
    '93 2556
    Carbureted 383 Vortec-Bravo II 2.0:1 18 1/4x19 P

    The rebuild of my 2556 https://www.baylinerownersclub.org/f...76?view=thread
    Misc. projects thread
    https://www.baylinerownersclub.org/f...56-gctid789773

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      #3
      I plan on trying the coil; swap. as for points, I really don't have much experience installing points. I know you need a feeler gauge and the engine needs to be at a certain point, etc etc but haven't done points before.

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        #4
        I would also check the anti siphon valve on the tank, sometimes they create restriction in fuel supply. To rule out the fuel supply completely, try to run the engine from a portable tank and see if there is any difference.
        Alex
        1997 2859, 7.4 MPI, Bravo II
        1993 2452, 5.7 Bravo II - SOLD

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          #5
          Thanks fishaman. If it were anti siphon line was he issue, why would the port engine run like a dream if they are both fed from the same tank? Or do the engines have separate anti siphon lines?

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            #6
            I was a marine mechanic for years. I'd start with the points and would reccomend using a "dwell' meter to set the gap. A feeler gauge gets you to a ballpark but the dwell meter gets you right on the money for the gap setting. Sears used to have a cheap tach dwell meter. Remember to check your base timing after doing this as it can change by several degrees when changing out the points. You should also check the centrifugal advance, this is done by rotating the rotor and seeing if it snaps back when you let it go. You should also see if there is any side to side play that could show bad bushings. this will cause the dwell to change causing poor performance due to a weak spark.

            If that doesn't do it then switch coils from your other engine. it could also be the wire from the coil to the distributor, I've seen this cause severe running problems. I've also seen the same problem caused by a faulty engine wire harness plug. You can check this by running it up to speed and then twisting and pulling on the plug at the engine.

            this could be a good time to upgrade to a breakerless ignition. It's a relatively cheap upgrade and they have been quite reliable.

            Remember to wear your hearing protection when doing high speed tests. This will help you to focus more on the engine and less on how much your ears hurt from the noise. I've found that just looking at the running engine for bit and wiggling wires can help in the troubleshooting ( coil wire, engine wiring harness, etc.)

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              #7
              Run the engine in complete darkness, see a spark you might see many sparks you found a problem.

              Could be a bad ground, did you remove the main ground clean and inspect the cable end.

              Could be the battery end, remove the cable clean the connection, and the post using a battery brush.

              Could be the kill switch, cycle it a few times.

              While you have the cables off the battery, clean the starter connections.

              Main barrel plug, you checked it ?
              Be good, be happy, for tomorrow is promised to no man !

              1994 2452, 5.0l, Alpha gen. 2 drive. Sold ! Sold ! Sold !

              '86 / 19' Citation cuddy, Merc. 3.0L / 140 hp 86' , stringer drive. Sold ! Sold ! Sold !

              Manalapan N.J

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                #8
                The batteries and cables are all brand new (this year) as well as the main ground cables.

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                  #9
                  Hey Capt jack, I was looking at the pertronix conversion kit and was curious if you know if the pertronix 1581 is the correct kit for my crusaders? There are so many to choose from.

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                    #10
                    Installing a new kit into a old dizzy is a bad move.

                    Install a brand new dizzy.

                    By the way nothing is grounding out in the dizzy ?
                    Be good, be happy, for tomorrow is promised to no man !

                    1994 2452, 5.0l, Alpha gen. 2 drive. Sold ! Sold ! Sold !

                    '86 / 19' Citation cuddy, Merc. 3.0L / 140 hp 86' , stringer drive. Sold ! Sold ! Sold !

                    Manalapan N.J

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                      #11
                      Whats srong with putting new ignition in an older distributer? The distributer/engine only has 419 hours on it

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                        #12
                        Sorry I can't help with part numbers. I'd get the numbers off your distributors and call their tech line.

                        The problem with using an old distributor would be play in the shaft bushings. With the low hours you have your probably going to be ok but make sure your centrifugal advance weights and springs are working correctly. if they are seized or sticky you could lose your advance or have problems setting your base timing. These can be replace fairly easily if you can find the parts. you have to make sure you have the correct springs.

                        Jack

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                          #13
                          Thanks everyone for the advice and information. I think I might just stay with the points. I think it would be better in the long run as it should be easier to fix an issue with points than if the electronics die while underway.

                          Comment


                            #14
                            This is your perfect opportunity to try something. Do some performance tuning one step at a time and see how the other engine stacks up.

                            If the coil is a suspect, replace it with one that has a little more voltage. That is after you try Chief Alen's spark-at-night trick. There can be no question as to the condition of all plug and coil wires - and they're cheap! MSD (Autotronics ) and Crane and a few others make a hi-performance coil. These oil-filled beauties pack enough spark to set off any fuel that's in the combustion chamber. I do know the MSD folks have coast guard approved units - not sure about other brands. You might also make sure you have some platinum or better plugs. They need to handle this additional spark.

                            If you still have issues at planing speeds, it could be the distributor. More specifically the advance mechanism. This might be the fun time to go to a hi-performance distributor in an attempt to maximize fuel efficiency and/or performance.

                            We can't go farther here on this subject: too long. I wrote a book called "Fuelish Pleasure Boats" that goes really deep into the process and expected results. Check it out on Amazon, or the fuelishpleasureboats.com site.

                            It will take some time, and a willingness to learn, but you can have the best and most efficient running 454's on the water.

                            Happy boating.

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                              #15
                              I wouldn't make that conclusion so quickly, points are not reliable, especially not in the marine environment. Do a little more research on the petronix, I have installed their kits in almost every vehicle I have had. If done properly, which is very easy, you will never touch it again and you will never suffer from the constant tuning trying to get perfect economy and driveability. As far as the issue your having with the engine dying it does seem very similar to a problem I had last year, one of my coils was mounted differently than the other and it was too close to the choke heater port in the intake manifold, it overheated in the hot summer and the engine died at speed. I couldn't get it to restart unless i gave it a bit of throttle, but even then it was bad. once it cooled down it was okay. I would say your correct suspecting the coil, but possibly other parts are contributing. My course of action would be a change of both coils, confirming the wiring is correct as far as resistor or no resistor and then swap both points out to petronix and change cap and rotors. No sense in my mind to only upgrade one engine but i guess you could, i just like the confidence in knowing you may have prevented an issue from causing you problems on the water. Good luck !
                              1990 3888 Bayliner, Twin 351's

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