Auto-routing . . . whose brand, prices and opinions, please - keep it friendly-gctid809062

[Dadrock33]

Looking to buy a new chartplotter and definitely want it to be capable of auto-routing . . . have been reading horror stories about Simrad and others . . . . want it to be NEMA2000 and 0183 capable, fish finding (negotiable item - not mandatory), possible input of analog data from engines (so will have to use a Noland unit I'm thinking), internal or external GPS unit (incorporated is better in my book), same with WIFI connections . . . . ok, let'er rip!!:woohoo:

[bobmorgan]

I would go with this one at $1,049.99 or the 12" at $2,649.99



AxiomÔäó 9 - 9" MFD with Navionics+ Chart

The AxiomÔäó is a powerful new multifunction navigation system from Raymarine. The Axiom 9 features a 9-inch glass touchscreen display with Raymarine's powerful LightHouse 3 operating system and a supercharged quad-core processor.

The Axiom 9 comes with a built-in GPS receiver. It is bundled with Navionics+ Charts for North America with full coastal coverage for the USA and Canada, plus over 80,000 inland ponds, lakes and rivers. The Navionics+ charts are also compatible with advanced features like SonarChart Live and Dock-to-dock Autorouting. Axiom 9 also works with wide array of raster and vector electronic charts from C-MAP and LightHouse Charts.

Axiom 9 is expandable so its capabilities can grow as needed. It supports the full range of Raymarine accessories including Quantum radar, CHIRP Sonar, SiriusXM marine weather, audio integration, instruments, cameras, and Evolution autopilot. Axiom 9 also features standard Wi-Fi and Bluetooth connectivity so it can connect with the latest Raymarine apps for tablets and Smartphones.

The Axiom 9 includes surface and trunnion mounting kits, mounting hardware, power/data cable, 1m SeaTalk hs network cable, NMEA2000 network

adapter and installation instructions.

Features:

Rugged, All-Glass touch screen display delivers a big screen experience in a small footprint. Optically bonded for brighter colors, sharper contrast, and sunlight visibility

LightHouse 3 OS is fast, fluid, and easy to learn. An uncluttered interface that is easily personalized for your style of navigating.

Fast 10 Hz 72 Channel GPS/GLONASS Receiver for rapid position and heading updates and smooth on screen tracking.

Navionics+ Charts Included. Axiom 9 also supports C-MAP, as well as LightHouse Raster and Vector Charts from leading map makers like NV Digital, Blue Latitude, and more.

Navigate Safely at Night with the optional FLIR M100 and M200 compact marine thermal cameras.

Quantum CHIRP Radar Ready - Superior solid state CHIRP radar delivers no compromise performance on long and extremely short ranges.

Marine Audio Control - Turn up the volume and control NMEA2000 compatible marine audio systems like Rockford Fosgate.

Ready to Network with Raynet Ethernet and NMEA2000. Connect multiple Axiom displays or expand with Quantum, HD radar, IP cameras, engine gauges, autopilots, instruments, and more.

Built-in Wi-Fi lets you to stream and control Axiom right from your smartphone or tablet. You can also sync Axiom's waypoints, routes, and charts with Navionics mobile apps.

[Guest]

I've used auto-routing with Garmin GPSMap 441s and Garmin EchoMap 94sv (or will shortly...just replaced the 441s with the 94sv, and the 441s will serve as the backup chartplotter). Both have built-in coastal BlueChart charts, and both require the G2 Bluecharts Vision SD card to enable "Auto-Guidance". (I've always used Garmin automobile GPS's, so for me Garmin felt like a comfortable choice.) Here are my experiences:

The version 1 Auto-Guidance (in the 441s) works as well as could be expected, in my opinion. It'll create the shortest route between your current location and what you've told it your destination is, accounting for boat draft, vertical draft, etc. Just like using an automotive GPS, it's not 100% accurate, it's "guidance". One shortcoming of the version 1 Auto-Guidance is that you can't change the route it picked (it's a bit annoying). For instance, in my case it will often try to send me offshore when I'd prefer to follow the AICW. The work-around for this is to make two routes, with the 2nd one picking up where the first one left off. That can be a little annoying if you're just trying to plan the trip and figure out distance, time, fuel, etc., estimates.

The version 2 Auto-Guidance (in the 94sv, also in the GPSMap 942 at least, maybe others) allows you to add waypoints AFTER an auto-route has been calculated, then select "recalculate" and it will re-calc the route to include the waypoint(s) you added. For me, this allows me to put a waypoint halfway there in the AICW and recalc so it will "guide" me on an AICW route rather than an offshore route, for instance. I just installed the 94sv a couple weekends ago and haven't used it for a trip just yet, so I'm hoping this works as advertised.

The other auto-routing I've used is Navionics+ auto-routing on a tablet (IIRC, it's $3.99 for the Navionics+ that supports auto-routing). It works very similar to Garmin's Auto-Guidance, and I've found it useful for doing some trip planning. Some of the not-Garmin chartplotters use the Navionics software for their chartplotting, and some subset of those also support the Navionics auto-routing...check the models carefully to see which ones support auto-routing and which ones do not...if the description of a particular model doesn't explicitly say "supports auto-routing", then it doesn't support auto-routing. I don't have any experience with the chartplotter devices that use Navionics software (outside of the Navionics tablet app), so I can't offer any useful comments on any of those. A cheap way to get an understanding of what you can and can't do with auto-routing would be to install the Navionics+ app on your smartphone or tablet, and play around with it...last I looked, the Navionics+ app had a 30 day free trial or similar.

Overall, I think the auto-routing features are great features that offer good convenience. Just like following ANY chart (whether electronic or paper, auto-routed, pick-n-clicked, or latitudes/longitudes entered manually in the chartplotter), if the markers and the charts don't agree, follow the markers first and the charts second.

I don't have much experience with the other more advanced features that you mentioned, but I do know the Garmin GPSMap series (vs the Garmin EchoMap series) have lots of additional radar, network, etc., inputs. (The 94sv for instance has the Chirp sonar input, but not a Garmin radar input, where the Garmin GPSMap 942/941/741 do have radar and other inputs.) I'd imagine somewhere in the lineup, the GPSMap series aligns pretty well with functionality on the above mentioned Raymarine Axiom 9, and probably for pricing in the same ballpark. All the mfg's compete with each other in terms of features and price, and that's actually a good thing for us as consumers of these products.

Hope this helps,

Dave

[MonteVista]

I am using the Garmin GPSMAP 547s in Aegean waters. Most of my routes are my own drawings, using Garmin HomePort on my MAC and transfer, via SD card, to the GPSMAP device. At times I use the GPSMAP's autoroute feature that I have found very reliable and in many cases very close to my own routing. I set the two parameters for distance from shore and depth of water to medium levels and I have never had a close call or bad route yet.

Good luck.

[Norton_Rider]

Auto-routing is a developing technology, and the manufacturers are constantly updating their software. Some of the stories you hear or things you read are about early versions of auto-routing. So make sure that the opinions you get are regarding the latest software versions.

Incidentally, I would recommend that you always check the complete route that is created by auto-routing software before actually navigating it.

[Glasply1]

I don't think you can beat the auto-routing capability of Navionics on an iPad. Of course you don't have the link to your autopilot or other functionality you get with a plotter, but for pure trip planning the iPad solution is inexpensive comparatively speaking and super intuitive.

When it comes to plotters, i bought a Simrad because of the ability to expand the view both by touch screen and knob (I think others have the knob feature too). I use the knob to zoom in and out way more than the touch screen. If auto plot is important, I advise getting a demo on whatever system you're considering. I was told Navionics functionality on Simrad would mirror the iPad, but it's not even close!

[Dadrock33]

"bobmorgan" post=809076 wrote:
I would go with this one at $1,049.99 or the 12" at $2,649.99

[attachment]36272 wrote:
Raymarine_E70366-00-NAG_64413_1.gif[/attachment]

AxiomÔäó 9 - 9" MFD with Navionics+ Chart

The AxiomÔäó is a powerful new multifunction navigation system from Raymarine. .

Yeah, that's a nice unit and not all that pricey . . . . but unavailable right now.

I'm still leaning towards the Simrad NSS9 evo3 or the Simrad GO9 XSE . . . the Lowrance units seem a bit too pricey.

Thanks for the opinions, everyone. . . . still looking at this point . . . radar or no radar? AIS . . nice vesper unit there. . . . but only so many boat bucks . . .

[Guest]

Read the other recent thread on "New GPS"...I don't think the auto-routing is actually available on the Simrad units just yet.

On radar...I *think* (but I'm not sure) that almost all of the radar's now expect to be plugged into a chartplotter that has a radar input, versus having their own dedicated display. The one's I'm most familiar with are 1) the 1989 Furuno radar currently on my 3818 (old dedicated green screen display), and 2) what I've read and researched about the newer Garmin radar's (which expect to be plugged into one of the GPSMap units). That seems to be the current trend, although there may very well be exceptions to that. The Garmin EchoMap 94sv I just upgraded to on my boat does NOT have a radar input, but the similar Garmin GPSMap 941/942 DOES have a radar input. (If I could have found the GPSMap model refurbed at a good price, I would have gotten that instead of the EchoMap, but there wasn't any I could find. In the meantime, my old radar still works so I can't justify ripping it out, although that big green-screen display sure does take up a lot of room.)

Isn't it interesting how the 9" chartplotters are around $1K, but add a mere 3" to that display and suddenly they cost 2-3X more? :P

Dave

[Dadrock33]

"davesisk" post=810522 wrote:
Read the other recent thread on "New GPS"...I don't think the auto-routing is actually available on the Simrad units just yet.

Isn't it interesting how the 9" chartplotters are around $1K, but add a mere 3" to that display and suddenly they cost 2-3X more? :P

Dave

Thanks, Dave . . . yeah, that auto-routing thing is showing up as "not available in the US" . . wonder why? Another item that doesn't make any sense . . :S just what I need. Noticed the same price disparity that you did . . . amazing. I was thinking about a 12" as these eyes aren't what they used to be and then saw the price differences . . . . back to reality . . . . :silly:

Am I silly or can't you still just plan your route with waypoints and such and then download into the chartplotter and then run that route that you had planned? I hope so . . . it just means that the program can't "auto guide" you like the automobile GPS is what I'm thinking.

[Norton_Rider]

It appears that Navico (Lowrance, Simrad, B&G) is not offering Auto Routing in the US due to a patent dispute with Garmin (https://search.rpxcorp.com/litigatio...ments/12193223). Moreover, Garmin also filed suit against Raymarine last year. If Garmin prevails, Raymarine may need to disable the feature.

http://www.bizjournals.com/kansascity/news/2016/12/12/garmin-files-patent-lawsuits-for-marine-routing.html

[Guest]

"Norton Rider" post=810691 wrote:
It appears that Navico (Lowrance, Simrad, B&G) is not offering Auto Routing in the US due to a patent dispute with Garmin (https://search.rpxcorp.com/litigatio...ments/12193223). Moreover, Garmin also filed suit against Raymarine last year. If Garmin prevails, Raymarine may need to disable the feature.

http://www.bizjournals.com/kansascit...e-routing.html

Personally, I think this really stinks. Instead of spending those dollars on a lawsuit to eliminate competition, they should be spending those dollars on making their own auto-routing so good that the competitors have a difficult time catching up (which then causes the competitors to step it up also). I do very much hope that they loose that legal battle...if they win it, that sets a precedent that I really don't like, which is that the end-users (us) are the one's who ultimately pay the price of not having good technology choices available to us and/or pay out the nose for good technology. Auto-routing is not a new idea (been done in automotive GPS's for a very long time), so I hope the question becomes "is the patent actually valid?".

Dave

[Norton_Rider]

Companies nowadays defend their intellectual property fiercely. This is not the first time Navico and Garmin have gone at it. A couple of years ago Navico successfully prevented Garmin from using some of its sonar technology. Also, remember the spat between Garmin and Navionics: Navionics released chart data that was compatible with Garmin chart plotters. Garmin then came up with a software update for their units that locked out the Navionics data.

[Glasply1]

Thank you for this insight! I am running the Simrad NSS 9 EVO 3 and been totally frustrated by the lack of auto routing. People at Simrad booth at the Miami boat show suggested it was to do with Simrad not wanting to take on litigation risk associated with autorouting vessels through narrow waterways.

I will say that I CAN, use autorouting on my Simrad running Navionics, but it routes me through open water. For example, an auto plotted course between two points using Navionics on my iPad will take me the most direct route using the intercoastal waterway, whereas the same trip auto plotted on the Simrad will take me off shore, but still get me to the same point. I use my iPad to plot courses and the Simrad to monitor.

Also, one big thing I didn't think about when buying is how fast the unit is. I find the Simrad to be a bit slow when I am trying to manually plot a course, i.e., when you move the chart around to manually place waypoints on say a 50 mile trip, the system is slow to scroll the chart. That gets REALLY frustrating.

[Norton_Rider]

I use a laptop based application to plan routes and transfer them to my chartplotter. It is much easier than trying to do it on the chartplotter itself.

[Dadrock33]

Glasply1 - so sorry to hear that info . . . . interestingly enough, just received an email from Raymarine that the Axioms are now shipping . . . supposed to be super fast (quad core and all that) and it still has all the bells and whistles (wifi, NEMA2000 and 0183, etc.) and take a look at that price point!! . . . . I'm starting to lean the other way.

"Norton Rider" post=811041 wrote:
I use a laptop based application to plan routes and transfer them to my chartplotter. It is much easier than trying to do it on the chartplotter itself.

Which one are you using, Norton? Guess I need to buy a newer iPad first . . . . one with cellular but don't activate the cellular, right?