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**builderdude** · 04-14-2017, 07:26 PM

Who knows what a previous owner may have done. Everything should receive power whatever the selection is at the MBSS (Master Battery Selector Switch) unless it's in the off possition. Usually selection #1 is a dedicated starting bank (or single starting battery) reserved for starting the engine when selection #2 (usually the house bank consisting of one or more deep cycle batteries) can't do the job because it's been depleted to far from running whatever while you were at anchor etc.

And I would agree that with this set up you would start on battery #1 head out to sea on battery #2, or both and while at anchor selecting #2. The alternator will be sending its charge current to wherever the MBSS is selected.

**Songman** · 04-15-2017, 06:39 AM

Thanks for the guidance. I will check out the connections for the MBSS distribution device. This certainly needs to be corrected for safe boating.

**builderdude** · 04-15-2017, 08:24 AM

Trying to post a diagram (one I stole from Rick) but the site is apparently broken......

**2850Bounty** · 04-15-2017, 08:40 AM

This is one scenario for a single engine boat with a #1 and #2 battery bank.

**builderdude** · 04-15-2017, 08:49 AM

There it is, thanks Rick

**Songman** · 04-15-2017, 09:18 AM

This forum is great. Thanks so much.

**Guest** · 04-15-2017, 05:12 PM

Along with the ideas already given check the negative cable from Batt 2 is conected correctly or theres power coming from batt 2 at the helm also unless you want to rewire your whole system dedicated deep cycle batt house bank wont really help you unless you going to run refrigerators / tv / coffee maker etc a battery on either bank with at least 90amp hr and 600cca would be more than enough for a days fishing with the odd overnighter on one side you could always parrel in a third batt

**2850Bounty** · 04-16-2017, 07:31 AM

"Zarn" post=803647 wrote:
1..... Along with the ideas already given check the negative cable from Batt 2 is conected correctly or theres power coming from batt 2 at the helm also unless you want to rewire your whole system

2..... dedicated deep cycle batt house bank wont really help you unless you going to run refrigerators / tv / coffee maker etc

a battery on either bank with at least 90amp hr and 600cca would be more than enough for a days fishing with the odd overnighter on one side

3.... you could always parrel in a third batt

[color]#000088 wrote:
1.... The MBSS selects the bank that is to be used for the entire electrical system.

In other words..... either bank #1 or bank #2 (when selected) will/should provide power (via the "common" cable) for everything that the hull harness feeds.

2.... A HLBB is typically made up from Deep Cycle batteries.

3.....An MBSS will select between two battery banks ONLY.

A third battery installation will simply complicate useage and charging.

[/color]

**Songman** · 04-16-2017, 12:46 PM

Happy Easter. Here's the latest....

Followed 2850 Bounty's suggestions and determined the selector switch is installed correctly. Condition of common cable connection to be determined.

I put the boat on the battery charger overnight with the switch set to OFF. Removed the charger plug this morning. Battery #1 is over 12vdc. Battery #2 is just over 5vdc. Hmmm..

I removed the battery selector switch from the aft bulkhead (interior near battery) to inspect and perform continuity tests. Unless it's just the Florida sun, I can say I now have power to the console (checked with radio on and also Raymarine C70 display) with bank #2 selected as well as #1 and both. The low voltage on bank #2 soon became an issue for the electronics, and they de-energized. Perhaps something moved, a connection was restored, an internal state of the switch changed, or I am losing it. Also, battery #2 could be bad.

Visual inspection of the back of the switch revealed the following:

- Basically clean cable connections for the age (2006) of the boat.

- Common cable has another medium sized cable on top of it, connected to the same post.

- Bank #1 cable has four (4) small wires (maybe 16 awg) connected to the same post. I don't know their purpose or destination but they each are fused with waterproof fuse holders mounted to the bulkhead. Three have 10 amp fuses. One has a 30 amp fuse. The 30 amp fuse was blown (automobile type) and replaced.

Continuity Inspection:

In most cases, there was completed continuity (zero ohms) across the switch selection post and the common post.

Between the Bank #1 and Bank #2 post, there is about 5 ohms of resistance (not expected). I thought they should be isolated unless BOTH is selected.

There is no continuity between the unselected post and the common post (as expected).

Troubleshooting:

I am charging another battery to put in bank #2 as a final check to see if it will maintain a charge and provide ample service when selected.

I suspect the switch is faulty.

I do not know why additional wiring is added to the switch at bank #1. I assume this voltage is only supplied when bank #1 is selected.

Again, any help or comments would be appreciated.

**builderdude** · 04-16-2017, 02:33 PM

"Songman" post=803598 wrote:
I do not know why additional wiring is added to the switch at bank #1. I assume this voltage is only supplied when bank #1 is selected.

No, the voltage at post #1 (back of selector switch) should always be hot, that main battery cable from post #1 should go strait to the positive post on the battery bank #1. Same goes for post #2.

The additional wires could be for things like a bilge pump float switch (so it is uninterruptible) or a connection from an on board battery charger, anything els should really come off of the common post via an auxiliary fuse panel (keeps things clean and allows for easy addition of future circuits)

Check the negative battery connections as well, bad connections cause all kinds of issues.

**Songman** · 04-16-2017, 02:49 PM

I'll have to chase those extra wires. There is an onboard charger but it makes little sense to connect it to bank #1 at the switch, as it seems it would only charge that battery. If that's true then that could explain a lot, as battery #2 is problematic.

Yes, the + battery cable from each battery goes directly to the associated post on the back of the switch.

**builderdude** · 04-16-2017, 03:01 PM

So connecting the onboard charger leads to the post at the MBSS is a much cleaner way to go. As Rick has said many times it avoids the potential rats nest of wiring connections at the battery posts. If your onboard charger is set up to charge multiple battery banks then another wire would be connected to post #2 from the charger, sounds like yours is a single maybe?

**Songman** · 04-16-2017, 03:14 PM

I'll investigate further in the upcoming days to figure out what charging system there is on the boat. If it's indeed a single then my battery #2 is not being charged when it's plugged in ashore. But that would be a stupid - haha.

**2850Bounty** · 04-17-2017, 06:34 AM

"Songman" post=803782 wrote:

Followed 2850 Bounty's suggestions and determined the selector switch is installed correctly. Condition of common cable connection to be determined.

I put the boat on the battery charger overnight with the switch set to OFF. Removed the charger plug this morning. Battery #1 is over 12vdc. Battery #2 is just over 5vdc.

[color]#000088 wrote:
If connected correctly, that may indicate that you have a single bank battery charger.

[/color]

I removed the battery selector switch from the aft bulkhead (interior near battery) to inspect and perform continuity tests. Unless it's just the Florida sun, I can say I now have power to the console (checked with radio on and also Raymarine C70 display) with bank #2 selected as well as #1 and both.

[color]#000088 wrote:
Yes..... just as how it should be. [/color]

The low voltage on bank #2 soon became an issue for the electronics, and they de-energized.

[color]#000088 wrote:
Short of the No Charging issue, you may want to load-test the batteries in bank #2. Perhaps they are bad.

(a wet cell battery that has been sitting for any duration, while even partially dis-charged, will live a short life!)[/color]

Perhaps something moved, a connection was restored, an internal state of the switch changed, or I am losing it.

[color]#000088 wrote:
Is this by chance a Red 90 degree sweep Perko MBSS? (IMO..... this would not be a good MBSS)

[/color]

Also, battery #2 could be bad.

[color]#000088 wrote:
(see above re; load-testing)[/color]

Visual inspection of the back of the switch revealed the following:

- Basically clean cable connections for the age (2006) of the boat.

- Common cable has another medium sized cable on top of it, connected to the same post.

[color]#000088 wrote:
Trace this circuit out and see what it feeds!

[/color]

- Bank #1 cable has four (4) small wires (maybe 16 awg) connected to the same post. I don't know their purpose or destination but they each are fused with waterproof fuse holders mounted to the bulkhead. Three have 10 amp fuses. One has a 30 amp fuse. The 30 amp fuse was blown (automobile type) and replaced.

[color]#000088 wrote:
Please note that by using terminal #1 for these "4 small wires", the person who did this has removed the option for bank #2 alone to power these.

Selecting ALL/BOTH will power them, but that is a less than desireable scenario.

[/color]

Continuity Inspection:

In most cases, there was completed continuity (zero ohms) across the switch selection post and the common post.

Between the Bank #1 and Bank #2 post, there is about 5 ohms of resistance (not expected). I thought they should be isolated unless BOTH is selected.

[color]#000088 wrote:
Does this MBSS have any additional small terminals for alternator field protection?

[/color]

There is no continuity between the unselected post and the common post (as expected).

[color]#000088 wrote:
Good! [/color]

Troubleshooting:

I am charging another battery to put in bank #2 as a final check to see if it will maintain a charge and provide ample service when selected.

I suspect the switch is faulty.

[color]#000088 wrote:
When you say "switch" are you talking about the MBSS?

We will see; BS (battery switch.... On/Off) and we will see MBSS (main battery selector switch.... OFF- #1- ALL/BOTH - #2) [/color]

I do not know why additional wiring is added to the switch at bank #1. I assume this voltage is only supplied when bank #1 is selected.

[color]#000088 wrote:
If speaking about loads only, that is and will be the case when the "common" terminal and "common" cable are being used as designed.

The common terminal and common cable take the selected source's power down to the starter motor terminal.

From the starter motor terminal, the power is then available for the boat's Hull Harness.

(see my image in post #6 again) [/color]

"Songman" post=803799 wrote:
I'll have to chase those extra wires. There is an onboard charger but it makes little sense to connect it to bank #1 at the switch, as it seems it would only charge that battery. If that's true then that could explain a lot, as battery #2 is problematic.

[color]#000088 wrote:
Please see the image in post #6 again. Note that the OB Charger leads connect directly to the rear MBSS terminals #1 and #2.

For good reason, they do not make a direct battery connection!

[/color]

Yes, the + battery cable from each battery goes directly to the associated post on the back of the switch.

[color]#000088 wrote:
Suggestion: connect your dedicated "starting" battery to #1 MBSS terminal, and your Deep Cycle batteries to #2 MBSS terminal. [/color]

.

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