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    Power Assisted Hydraulic Steering?-gctid802373

    There was a thread recently about changing from Power Assisted Cable Steering to Power Assisted Hydraulic Steering. Since I already have a complete SeaStar 2-line system stored in my garage (with two steering hubs), I'm thinking about changing my steering over.



    Not being that mechanically minded, how would that work? I installed the twin hydraulic steering stations on my Chris Craft, but it was a simple remove and replace. Can someone tell me how the power assisted part works with the hydraulic part?

    To what I remember, the hydraulic steering has two hoses connected to a piston. Where is the powered part connected? Photos would be great.

    Thanks in advance. Kevin
    "B on D C", is a 1989 2459 Trophy Offshore HT, OMC 5.7L, Cobra OD, Yamaha 15hp kicker. Lots of toys! I'm no mechanic, just a blue water sailer and woodworker who loves deep sea fishing.
    MMSI: 367637220
    HAM: KE7TTR
    TDI tech diver
    BoD Puget Sound Anglers North Olympic Peninsula Chapter
    Kevin

    #2
    "2850Bounty" post=802384 wrote:
    [color]#000088 wrote:
    Since you have all of the hydraulic steering components, I would suggest removing all PA components, and go with the stand-a-lone hydraulic system.

    No more belt driven pump, no supply/return hoses, no fluid cooler, no slave valve to give you any trouble, and the engine does not need to be running for any steering assist. [/color]
    Thanks, Bounty. My intention after reading your response is to remove everything and go completely with the hydraulic system. I read the one post where the guy who mixed them said there was a difference between the engine running and when it was off. Not sure why he'd do that, because my Chris was just as easy to steer even when the engine was off as when it was on.

    Okay. I understand what needs to happen at the helm - basically, remove all the steering back to the engine space. But when it comes to removing anything beyond the belt driven pump on the engine, I'm lost. Might you have a photo to show me, "remove this, this, and this, and mount the cylinder here and here"?

    Normally, I would just muscle it. But after mentioning it to Wifey - who loves to helm when we are trolling - I'm seeing (and hearing) a good reason to change it. B)
    "B on D C", is a 1989 2459 Trophy Offshore HT, OMC 5.7L, Cobra OD, Yamaha 15hp kicker. Lots of toys! I'm no mechanic, just a blue water sailer and woodworker who loves deep sea fishing.
    MMSI: 367637220
    HAM: KE7TTR
    TDI tech diver
    BoD Puget Sound Anglers North Olympic Peninsula Chapter
    Kevin

    Comment


      #3
      "CptCrunchie" post=802400 wrote:
      ........................................

      Thanks, Bounty. My intention after reading your response is to remove everything and go completely with the hydraulic system.

      [color]#000088 wrote:
      That would be my choice! [/color]

      I read the one post where the guy who mixed them said there was a difference between the engine running and when it was off.

      [color]#000088 wrote:
      Yes!

      The PA system requires a running engine in order to power the hydraulic fluid pump. Whereas with hydraulic steering system, the helm unit is the pump!!!!!! [/color]

      Not sure why he'd do that, because my Chris was just as easy to steer even when the engine was off as when it was on.

      Okay. I understand what needs to happen at the helm - basically, remove all the steering back to the engine space. But when it comes to removing anything beyond the belt driven pump on the engine, I'm lost. Might you have a photo to show me, "remove this, this, and this, and mount the cylinder here and here"?

      Normally, I would just muscle it. But after mentioning it to Wifey - who loves to helm when we are trolling - I'm seeing (and hearing) a good reason to change it. B)

      [color]#000088 wrote:
      You should have mounting and installation instructions with the kit.

      Nut shelling this..... the PA pump, hoses, fluid cooler, cylinder and slave valve go away.

      The new hydraulic steering "helm unit" now becomes the fluid pump.

      The balanced hydraulic cylinder replaces the PA cylinder and slave valve component.

      The hydraulic force is applied to the cylinder, of which gives you your Port or Stdb turning via the connection to the spindle arm. [/color]
      [color]#000088 wrote:
      This image shows a dual station application along with a reservalve. It is also showing an installation for an I/B boat with rudder steering.

      For your system, you'll have only one helm unit, and you may not have the reservalve.

      Your balanced cylinder connection to the I/O spindle arm will be very similar to that of the rudder spindle arm.

      [/color]

      [attachment]35028 wrote:
      Hydraulicsteeringvalvepartsandinfo2-2.jpg[/attachment]
      Rick E. Gresham, Oregon
      2850 Bounty Sedan Flybridge model
      Twin 280 HP 5.7's w/ Closed Cooling
      Volvo Penta DuoProp Drives
      Kohler 4 CZ Gen Set

      Comment


        #4
        The image is the same system I installed on my Chris - sans the reserve. JSYK, I know the hydraulic system very well, but when it comes to working in the tight engine space of my 2459, I get overwhelmed very quickly, and my first thoughts go back to my fixing one thing only for it to cause 3 more things to fail.

        What does the slave valve look like?

        The other big reason is to get rid of the oil cooler, the one piece of the puzzle I didn't know about when the weather turned cold,...whether it was completely drained. Don't know if it cracked, but by changing the system, I'll never need to deal with it again. The rest is just a rubber hose. I'll still need to drain it, but I won't need to obsess over whether it had water still in it.

        By removing the PS pump, the water pump to crank shaft to alternator belt will be the only one left. Since I am in a constant battle keeping the 118A alternator belt tight, would it be a good idea to change the pulley on the alternator so there would be two belts handling the water pump?
        "B on D C", is a 1989 2459 Trophy Offshore HT, OMC 5.7L, Cobra OD, Yamaha 15hp kicker. Lots of toys! I'm no mechanic, just a blue water sailer and woodworker who loves deep sea fishing.
        MMSI: 367637220
        HAM: KE7TTR
        TDI tech diver
        BoD Puget Sound Anglers North Olympic Peninsula Chapter
        Kevin

        Comment


          #5
          If it helps any here's an OMC PA cylinder that I found on eBay. It'll be bolted to the inner transom shield up top.



          Dave
          Edmonds, WA
          "THE FIX"
          '93 2556
          Carbureted 383 Vortec-Bravo II 2.0:1 18 1/4x19 P

          The rebuild of my 2556 https://www.baylinerownersclub.org/f...76?view=thread
          Misc. projects thread
          https://www.baylinerownersclub.org/f...56-gctid789773

          Comment


            #6
            "builderdude" post=802435 wrote:
            If it helps any here's an OMC PA cylinder that I found on eBay. It'll be bolted to the inner transom shield up top.

            [attachment]35031 wrote:
            image-2-3-4-5-6-7-8-9-10-11-12-13-14-15-16-17-18-19-20-21-22-23-24-25-26-27-28-29-30-31-32-33-34-35-36-37-38-39-40-41-42-43-44-45-46-47-48-49-50-51-52-53-54-55-56-57-58-59-60-61-62-63-64-65-66-67-68-69-70-71-72-73-74-75-76-77-78-79-80-81.jpeg[/attachment]
            Wow! Okay. As many times as I have been back there, I have never seen that. At least I have something to look for. Thanks, Dave.
            "B on D C", is a 1989 2459 Trophy Offshore HT, OMC 5.7L, Cobra OD, Yamaha 15hp kicker. Lots of toys! I'm no mechanic, just a blue water sailer and woodworker who loves deep sea fishing.
            MMSI: 367637220
            HAM: KE7TTR
            TDI tech diver
            BoD Puget Sound Anglers North Olympic Peninsula Chapter
            Kevin

            Comment


              #7
              I found this on the iboats forum site. Is this my system? If so, I remove everything in the drawing, and connect the ram to 'I'. I will also need to replace the hose in and out of the cooler. Correct?



              I still need some direction on whether to change the alternator pulley so the water pump is being driven by two belts instead of leaving it at one.

              Oh! One more thing. Is there an easy - non bilge fouling - way to drain the oil from the power steering?
              "B on D C", is a 1989 2459 Trophy Offshore HT, OMC 5.7L, Cobra OD, Yamaha 15hp kicker. Lots of toys! I'm no mechanic, just a blue water sailer and woodworker who loves deep sea fishing.
              MMSI: 367637220
              HAM: KE7TTR
              TDI tech diver
              BoD Puget Sound Anglers North Olympic Peninsula Chapter
              Kevin

              Comment


                #8
                If you are sure you have power assisted steering than it'd be like the schematic you've shown. Yes, everything would go and the new hydraulic cylinder will connect to the steering arm (part I) once the cooler (part C) has been removed you could simply couple the two hoses together.
                Dave
                Edmonds, WA
                "THE FIX"
                '93 2556
                Carbureted 383 Vortec-Bravo II 2.0:1 18 1/4x19 P

                The rebuild of my 2556 https://www.baylinerownersclub.org/f...76?view=thread
                Misc. projects thread
                https://www.baylinerownersclub.org/f...56-gctid789773

                Comment


                  #9
                  "builderdude" post=802444 wrote:
                  If you are sure you have power assisted steering than it'd be like the schematic you've shown. Yes, everything would go and the new hydraulic cylinder will connect to the steering arm (part I) once the cooler (part C) has been removed you could simply couple the two hoses together.
                  Excellent! Thought so, ..........but to be sure, .....

                  Here is my PA cylinder and slave valve. Is what the green arrow is pointing at the only mount? If so, is there a bracket I need to buy to mount the hydraulic cylinder to?

                  [attachment]35034 wrote:
                  BonDCPSteering1.jpg[/attachment]

                  I ask because the hydraulic cylinder I have has the same mount as the one in the photo in first post, and it is nothing like the one on the boat.

                  Soaking wet from my venture to the boat, I can't seem to see the cooler with rain pouring down my neck. Is this the hose it is attached to it? I vaguely recall it is, but best I be sure.

                  [attachment]35035 wrote:
                  BonDCPSCHose.jpg[/attachment]

                  One last thing, the belts. If I remove the PS pump, the water pump and alternator will both be driven off one belt. With so little of the belt touching the water pump pulley (about 3-4"), is this okay, or should I see if I can get a double pulley to put on the alternator. Or is there some other solution?

                  [attachment]35036 wrote:
                  BonDCBelts.jpg[/attachment]
                  "B on D C", is a 1989 2459 Trophy Offshore HT, OMC 5.7L, Cobra OD, Yamaha 15hp kicker. Lots of toys! I'm no mechanic, just a blue water sailer and woodworker who loves deep sea fishing.
                  MMSI: 367637220
                  HAM: KE7TTR
                  TDI tech diver
                  BoD Puget Sound Anglers North Olympic Peninsula Chapter
                  Kevin

                  Comment


                    #10
                    One quality V-belt should drive the circulating pump without a problem, but a double pulley sure can't hurt any. The steering cooler should be inline of the hose that feeds raw water to your heat exchanger, I'm not familiar with your perticular setup. If the OMC PA cylinder is anything like the Mercruisers (and I think it is) there will be a second bolt underneath the one you've pictured. As far as mounting your new hydraulic cylinder, there are specific cylinders made that bolt directly to the transom shield where the original was removed. Possibly a custom bracket option too.
                    Dave
                    Edmonds, WA
                    "THE FIX"
                    '93 2556
                    Carbureted 383 Vortec-Bravo II 2.0:1 18 1/4x19 P

                    The rebuild of my 2556 https://www.baylinerownersclub.org/f...76?view=thread
                    Misc. projects thread
                    https://www.baylinerownersclub.org/f...56-gctid789773

                    Comment


                      #11
                      "builderdude" post=802471 wrote:
                      One quality V-belt should drive the circulating pump without a problem, but a double pulley sure can't hurt any. The steering cooler should be inline of the hose that feeds raw water to your heat exchanger, I'm not familiar with your perticular setup. If the OMC PA cylinder is anything like the Mercruisers (and I think it is) there will be a second bolt underneath the one you've pictured. As far as mounting your new hydraulic cylinder, there are specific cylinders made that bolt directly to the transom shield where the original was removed. Possibly a custom bracket option too.
                      Thanks, Dave. I'll keep you posted.
                      "B on D C", is a 1989 2459 Trophy Offshore HT, OMC 5.7L, Cobra OD, Yamaha 15hp kicker. Lots of toys! I'm no mechanic, just a blue water sailer and woodworker who loves deep sea fishing.
                      MMSI: 367637220
                      HAM: KE7TTR
                      TDI tech diver
                      BoD Puget Sound Anglers North Olympic Peninsula Chapter
                      Kevin

                      Comment


                        #12
                        "CptCrunchie" post=802454 wrote:


                        One last thing, the belts. If I remove the PS pump, the water pump and alternator will both be driven off one belt. With so little of the belt touching the water pump pulley (about 3-4"), is this okay, or should I see if I can get a double pulley to put on the alternator. Or is there some other solution?

                        [attachment]35036 wrote:
                        BonDCBelts.jpg[/attachment]
                        [color]#000088 wrote:


                        Look closely at the single V-belt that drives your alternator.

                        Notice that this V-belt also drives the engine circulating pump pulley.

                        Look at the V-belt contact to the circulating pump pulley..... this contact is approximately 90 degrees only, if even that!

                        Notice that the PA steeing system V-belt also drives the circulating pump pulley and with more degrees of contact.

                        With the PA Steering system gone, that will leave you with only one alternator V-belt and approx 90 degrees V-belt contact to the Circ pump pulley.

                        I would definitely consider doing two V-belts.

                        Do not over-tighten these (the front bearing in the alternator is very small).

                        [/color]

                        .
                        Rick E. Gresham, Oregon
                        2850 Bounty Sedan Flybridge model
                        Twin 280 HP 5.7's w/ Closed Cooling
                        Volvo Penta DuoProp Drives
                        Kohler 4 CZ Gen Set

                        Comment


                          #13


                          You will begin by aiming the drive straight forward, which will place the spindle arm straight forward. In other words, dead center from a full Port and full Stdb position.

                          The cylinder will be @ 1/2 travel while mounting the base to the transom.

                          .
                          Rick E. Gresham, Oregon
                          2850 Bounty Sedan Flybridge model
                          Twin 280 HP 5.7's w/ Closed Cooling
                          Volvo Penta DuoProp Drives
                          Kohler 4 CZ Gen Set

                          Comment


                            #14
                            "2850Bounty" post=802512 wrote:
                            [color]#4444bb wrote:
                            ......while mounting the base to the transom.[/color]

                            .
                            Rick, I know all this as I have done it before. And I'm sure this is a fairly common thing to do on these boats, because this kind of steering - now 29 years old - is common too.

                            My only question is, considering the old mount is useless for the new cylinder, do I need a special bracket, or is there something there already. I looked all around the area and saw the ends of the bolts for the outdrive against the transom, but they look like they are in the wrong place for the spindle arm to be in the middle. So, I figure I'll have to make something up. I have some beefy aluminum (┬¢" and ÔàØ" angle) that would likely work, and I have the ability to mill it. I just need to know if there is anything there, and if there isn't, if someone has an idea of what the mount needs to look like.

                            I may get a better look once I get the old steering out, but where it is, it is covering where I need to look.
                            "B on D C", is a 1989 2459 Trophy Offshore HT, OMC 5.7L, Cobra OD, Yamaha 15hp kicker. Lots of toys! I'm no mechanic, just a blue water sailer and woodworker who loves deep sea fishing.
                            MMSI: 367637220
                            HAM: KE7TTR
                            TDI tech diver
                            BoD Puget Sound Anglers North Olympic Peninsula Chapter
                            Kevin

                            Comment

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