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1990 2655 Engine Upgrade-gctid396896

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    1990 2655 Engine Upgrade-gctid396896

    Hey Folks, I have the above year of Bayliner 2655. It has the Merc 5.7 drive. These boats are notorious for being hard to get up on plane and not being real fast. I believe the engine is rated at 240 hp. All I am looking to do is get a bit more speed out of it so I can keep up with some of the newer boats. Being a car guy I see a GM 350 in the engine bay which should have many upgrade options. Has anyone tried getting a bit more power out of one of these.

    Chris

    #2
    http://www.michiganmotorz.com/

    Check that link out. Short answer is yes, you can get more power out of them.

    Knowing what I do about the wide beam 2655, I'd recommend a full blown repower, if you intend on keeping this boat.

    The biggest problem isn't so much the engine as the drive - this boat desperately needs a dual prop outdrive like a Merc Bravo 3, or a Volvo Penta DuoProp. This is a short, fat, heavy-assed boat and needs lift to get it out of the water.

    THis boat was optional with a Bravo 2 and a 454 (and back when it was OMC powered, a Ford 460). At the time that was the only way to get power to the water, despite still going to a single prop drive. Put 20 years of age under the hull, and with those engines starting to get tired, even the big blocks aren't really an asset - with the weight in the back, they are even more of a liability.

    You could throw a new engine in the boat - always a good possibility. I'd go with a hot small block (a 383 for example), even a 454 (the boat can handle it, obviously). But that won't solve the basic problem of getting the power to the water...and a Merc Alpha One won't live long at anything over 300 hp with the weight of your boat.

    If your boat was mine, and I was looking at keeping it for a long time (hell I would....the 2655 is an awesome layout that isn't really matched with any newer boat....justifying long term ownership), here is what I would do. This is still a massive project, but this would be the most cost effective way to repower this boat:

    Enjoy it for this season, and start looking for a wrecked boat with a hot small block from US Auctions or similar.....if you want to stay with Merc, look for a 350MAG/Bravo 3 (or 6.2L B3) boat that had a cabin fire, for instance. Or better yet, find a 5.7GXI DuoProp boat (Volvo Penta). The cutout should be the same, or require very little trimming. Of course, if you really wanted to go bat **** crazy (and I am all for doing so) you could find an 8.1L/B3 or VPDP combo as well. Then you would have a 2655 capable of time travel.

    Pull the boat for the season, yank the (hopefully still solid) 5.7 out of it, and Craigslist that. Yank the drive and transom assembly, make sure its serviceable, and Craigslist/Ebay that off as well.

    If you did this right, you are into that parts boat for $3500 or so, and you have your shelled out 2655, which you have sold the powertrain for, for about $2,000. You are currently out $1500, assuming you are doing the work yourself.

    Still with me? Good. Yank the (assumed good) powertrain from the wrecked boat, and bolt it into your 2655 (now would be an excellent time to check the transom and stringers of the Bayliner to make sure she's solid).

    So, now you have a totally shelled out parts boat, and a solid 1990 2655 with a proper powertrain. Pull any good parts off the junk boat and eBay those, and scrap the rest.

    Bingo. A pain in the ***, but a cost effective way to repower your boat properly, and you will never complain about performance again.....whereas if you just put a new engine in, you are bandaiding the real problem.

    Hope that helps.
    Matt Train
    BOC Site Team
    Chicagoland, IL

    Comment


      #3
      If a duoprop is out of the question, than the 4 blade props help with the out of the hole performance. YOu absolutely need to have the prop pitch right. Something around 15 X 15. The idea is that SLIP is the problem with these heavy wide boats. The 4 blade helps in this regard.

      Comment


        #4
        The Duo Prop and the BIII are not quite the same. The prop design is considerably different.

        Quick story;

        I owned a little 24 foot sdn f/b boat years ago.

        I set it up with 200 hp SBC 5.0L and Duo Prop drive.

        Even for a fairly heavy little 24' sdn f/b, and what would normally be way under-powered, it ran like no body's business..... dang near 38 mph.

        It was very quick to plane out, and it held plane easily.

        Removed the DP, return it to a s/p, and sold the boat.

        During the sea trial, it would just barely make planing attitude, and struggled to hold it.

        Point being.... the DP alone was as though this boat had an additional 80 or 100 hp w/ single prop drive.

        Chris, you may not need an engine change, you may only need a drive change!

        .
        Rick E. Gresham, Oregon
        2850 Bounty Sedan Flybridge model
        Twin 280 HP 5.7's w/ Closed Cooling
        Volvo Penta DuoProp Drives
        Kohler 4 CZ Gen Set

        Comment


          #5
          Thats why these boats are better values as OMC power. They are cheaper to buy and the cutouts are the same.

          In 1990, the only real way to get this boat was with a 454 since it was a Bravo. That means any other Bravos will swap on. With the base 260 hp, they got the Alpha, which means an automatic transom job to enlarge the hole for a Bravo, or anything else.

          At least with the OMCs, you had Volvo conversion kits and the same size cutouts...and a lower cost of entry.

          Or you could get an 86 2550 which is the same boat with Volvo power.
          Matt Train
          BOC Site Team
          Chicagoland, IL

          Comment


            #6
            Download_Complete wrote:
            Thats why these boats are better values as OMC power. They are cheaper to buy and the cutouts are the same.

            At least with the OMCs, you had Volvo conversion kits and the same size cutouts... and a lower cost of entry.
            Food for thought:

            All B/L's after what..... 1990??? are Mercs, since the Brunswick Corp now owns Mercury Marine from that point on.

            Other manufactures were using a mix of Merc and Volvo Penta, and perhaps the last run of OMC's.

            Of the Volvo Penta drives, we're just getting into the best of these drives in/around the mid 90's.... drives that B/L boats never got to see.

            IMO, there's nothing that says that a 1990 B/L with a Volvo Penta makes it a bastard boat.

            A 1990 boat is now 22 years old. Who is going to have a problem if it has now been powered via the AQ series????

            From an A drive, this is certainly a step up, not a step down or backwards!

            Staying with the footprint of the Merc does make it easier, so I do agree with Matt's point!

            However, cutting out and enlarging a transom to accommodate the AQ series V/P is not necessarily a deal breaker. You end up getting into fresh transom core material to boot, and the transom shield now applies torque to a larger area!

            IOW, the larger foot print transom shield no longer has the same leverage advantage against the transom, as does a smaller foot print transom unit.

            Perhaps this is not an extreme advanatage, but none-the-less, it is an advantage.

            AQ series "C" and later Duo Prop drive:

            No gimbal system suspension, no thru prop exhaust, no rubber hub drive coupler, no annual engine coupler alignment, no Y-pipe back flow prevention flappers, easy/quick bellows replacement, cone clutch gear engagement, no shift assist, one main shift cable, PDS is AFT-removal capable, etc.

            DP-S series Duo Prop drive:

            Gimbal system suspension, thru prop exhaust, rubber hud drive coupler, annual engine coupler alignment required, Y-pipe back flow prevention flappers, required gimbal bell removal for bellows replacement, etc.

            **********************************

            Quite a few BOC members have installed the Duo Prop drive. Some as an add-on, some as a conversion, and several as a complete out drive swap-out.

            Wayne Miller did a complete swap out with his 2850 that was previously a 460 KC.

            Ken W. (aka KFWeisse) also owns a 2655 (earlier model), and did the conversion on his several years ago. He is very pleased with the performance gain that he realized without changing his engine.

            Ken may be a good one for you to speak with, since your boats are very much the same.

            Al (aka Latavin) also did this as a V/P addition on his 2850 CB, and I think that Tony's 2850 SB was a DP addition.

            Member 74nisqually has also done the DP swap out...... http://"http://www.baylinerownersclu... post #3 here.

            Mike C. (aka Gilligan) also did the DP as an addition. See post #11 in the same thread.

            Our member Termlk did this also.... see post #13, same thread.

            Tony (aka tonyiiiafl) also posted his results to that same thread.... post #12.

            Ken (aka KFWeisse) chimes in on post #18 in that thread (the guy with the 2655).

            Bill (aka Billbayliner) chimes in on post #26 regarding his DP-C1 drive.

            SeaCruiser chimes in on post #34 with good comments.

            Our member FamilyJewels also did this as an OMC conversion. No transom unit change.... just a conversion.

            Many more BOC members have done this, but I'm not recalling all of them at the moment.

            I've also done this addition for quite a few non-BOC members, and have actually lost track of just how many that I've done.

            This would include my son's boat, my son's friend, and two of my own personal boats... (one single engine, one twin engine).

            The nah-sayers and people who under-estimate the Duo Prop, have very likely never owned one.

            Chris, of course it's entirely up to you as to what you end up doing. I just thought that this might offer you some information that you may not otherwise see or read.

            Edit:

            Here's a challenge that I'll offer to anyone who may be interested. Just do it for the fun of it!

            Speak with several good and well seasoned Volvo Penta technicians who are experience with both the Volvo Penta Gimbal system drives, and with the AQ series drives.

            These would be the SX and DP-S, M and so on, and the "C" and later AQ series drives.

            Many B/L owners do not know this, but the last of what we call the AQ series drives, were produced right along side of the SX and DP-S Gimbal System drives.

            Year range; 1994 through 1996/97 or so, in the gasoline engine lines (and even further in the Diesel engine lines).

            Ask them which drives require more frequent and more expensive maintenance and/or repair costs.

            Ask which ones seem to hold up better and cause fewer issues.

            Hands down, you're likely going to hear the AQ series.

            Again, not necessarily the early drives, these would be the C and later drives.... the drives that we B/L owners never got to experience.

            .
            Rick E. Gresham, Oregon
            2850 Bounty Sedan Flybridge model
            Twin 280 HP 5.7's w/ Closed Cooling
            Volvo Penta DuoProp Drives
            Kohler 4 CZ Gen Set

            Comment


              #7
              Rick, I am no expert, but the prop's on the B3 and new Volvo's look very similar to me. I know that the early versions of the Duo Prop had a unique prop shape, but the DP's of today??? They sure look a lot alike.

              As far as a re-power. If you have the money to do a drive by wire set up that is what I would do.
              Phil, Vicky, Ashleigh & Sydney
              1998 3055 Ciera
              (yes, a 1998)
              Previous boat: 1993 3055
              Dream boat: 70' Azimut or Astondoa 72
              Sea Doo XP
              Sea Doo GTI SE
              Life is short. Boats are cool.
              The family that plays together stays together.
              Vice Commodore: Bellevue Yacht Club

              Comment


                #8
                itsabowtime2 wrote:
                Rick, I am no expert, but the prop's on the B3 and new Volvo's look very similar to me. I know that the early versions of the Duo Prop had a unique prop shape, but the DP's of today??? They sure look a lot alike.
                Phil, I'm not sure that I'm following you, but let me take a stab at it!

                Common misnomer re; Duo Prop -vs- BIII:

                The term "Duo Prop" is Volvo Penta's pattented trade name for their original twin-counter-rotating propeller drive.

                The term "BIII" is Mercury's trade name for their version of the twin-counter-rotating propeller drive.

                The BIII drive is much larger than the Duo Prop drive, and I believe it will handle more HP and Torque.

                Volvo Penta quality may be a tad bit on the higher side, but the size of the BIII more than makes up for this.

                Don S. posted some valid BIII -vs- Duo Prop testing results here on the BOC years ago.

                Results as per that test:

                BIII outperforms the Duo Prop at speeds of 40/45ish MPH and above.

                Duo Prop outperforms the BIII at speeds below and up to 40/45ish MPH.

                Chris's 2655 is not a 40/45ish MPH boat..... at least not from what we read on these forums.

                Here's the inside tech points:

                The Merc BIII props are of the same diameter and pitch, but are a mirror image of each other.

                The Volvo Penta Duo Props are of a different diameter and pitch.

                Duo Prop FWD propeller is large, and is not as agressive re; pitch.

                Duo Prop AFT propeller is smaller, and is a more agressive pitch.

                As far as I know, Merc cannot copy this design as of yet. Perhaps in the future!

                This is apparently what makes the difference between the two dual counter rotating propeller drives, and their respective performance ranges.

                IMO, Chris's 2655 needs the Duo Prop, not the BIII, unless the BBC engine was used, or perhaps a well built SBC in the 383 version.

                Even at that...., we'd need to consider how this boat would handle at the higher speeds.

                It may become squirrely.......... I Don't know.

                BTW, I did an edit to my previous post!

                .
                Rick E. Gresham, Oregon
                2850 Bounty Sedan Flybridge model
                Twin 280 HP 5.7's w/ Closed Cooling
                Volvo Penta DuoProp Drives
                Kohler 4 CZ Gen Set

                Comment


                  #9
                  I may not have asked the question correctly. On the 290 drives/early Duo Prop drives the difference in prop shape was simple to see. On the new DP drives the prop design looks different, similar to the B3 props.

                  Not trying to start a fight Merc vs. Volvo just an observation.

                  Old Style Duo Prop:



                  DP prop set:



                  B3 prop set:


                  Phil, Vicky, Ashleigh & Sydney
                  1998 3055 Ciera
                  (yes, a 1998)
                  Previous boat: 1993 3055
                  Dream boat: 70' Azimut or Astondoa 72
                  Sea Doo XP
                  Sea Doo GTI SE
                  Life is short. Boats are cool.
                  The family that plays together stays together.
                  Vice Commodore: Bellevue Yacht Club

                  Comment


                    #10
                    I'd be all for an AQ swap, IF he could cost effectively source one.

                    The problem will be he won't....because the best VPs also coincided with the lowest production. The great thing about early to mid 80s Bayliners is there's enough of them that you can get parts off the bad ones.
                    Matt Train
                    BOC Site Team
                    Chicagoland, IL

                    Comment


                      #11
                      Download_Complete wrote:
                      The problem will be he won't.... because the best VPs also coincided with the lowest production. The great thing about early to mid 80s Bayliners is there's enough of them that you can get parts off the bad ones.
                      When/if we need later Volvo Penta salvaged parts, we simply look at other brand boats.

                      I had a small Regal run-about/ski boat here just a few weeks ago for a re-seal and bellows job.

                      The boat was set up with a MPI V-8 and DP-C1 drive.

                      The owner picked it up for $4k, and with a very nice trailer.

                      The DP-C1 drive alone was worth that and more.

                      These little boats are often neglected, and end up dying early, leaving great drive components for salvage.

                      We've got think "Non-Bayliner" in order to find this drive package in a salvage or donor boat.

                      .
                      Rick E. Gresham, Oregon
                      2850 Bounty Sedan Flybridge model
                      Twin 280 HP 5.7's w/ Closed Cooling
                      Volvo Penta DuoProp Drives
                      Kohler 4 CZ Gen Set

                      Comment


                        #12
                        Just shooting from the hip here but didn't I read some threads here on BOC that talked about steering clear of the BIII drives with BB engines and wide beams as they tended not to be able to handle the torque and HP??? I thought I remembered something about sticking with a BII drive in those situations which of course is a single prop drive.

                        Comment


                          #13
                          itsabowtime2 wrote:
                          I may not have asked the question correctly. On the 290 drives/early Duo Prop drives the difference in prop shape was simple to see. On the new DP drives the prop design looks different, similar to the B3 props.

                          Not trying to start a fight Merc vs. Volvo just an observation.
                          Understood! These two drives can't be fairly compared without factoring in the performance range differences.

                          We're good!

                          Phil, what you're seeing is the difference between an out drive exhaust outlet -vs- thru-prop exhaust.

                          Any of the AQ series main suspension fork/pivot tube geometry Duo Prop drives use an outlet exhaust, whereas the later gimbal system Duo Prop drives use thru-prop exhaust.

                          The two prop styles are not intended to be interchanged.

                          .
                          Rick E. Gresham, Oregon
                          2850 Bounty Sedan Flybridge model
                          Twin 280 HP 5.7's w/ Closed Cooling
                          Volvo Penta DuoProp Drives
                          Kohler 4 CZ Gen Set

                          Comment


                            #14
                            Wow guys thanks very much for all your comments. This is an amazing knowledgebase of enthusiats here. So it looks like the VP Dual prop drive is the way to go. Any suggestions where I would find such a drive? Boats that might have had it etc.

                            Chris

                            Comment


                              #15
                              chriscoker wrote:
                              Wow guys thanks very much for all your comments. This is an amazing knowledgebase of enthusiats here.
                              • 1 wrote:
                              • So it looks like the VP Dual prop drive is the way to go.
                              • Any suggestions where I would find such a drive? Boats that might have had it etc.



                              • 1 wrote:
                              • Chris, just to be clear...., these are my personal experiences and opinions ONLY.

                                Lots of the Merc guys are very pleased with their Merc drives. I don't want to take anything away from these.
                              • I don't know all of the brand boats that used Volvo Penta, but I can assure you that you won't be looking at post 1986 Bayliners.

                                You'll want to be in the mid 90's anyway.

                                http://"http://www.google.com/#hl=en...uld begin here, or try different search key words.




                              Remember that there is a difference between the Gimbal system drives, and what some of us call the AQ series drives.

                              Both styles were being produced side by side during these years (94 to/thru 96 or so).

                              IMO, the AQ series is what I'd be looking for, in particular the C or C1 drives.

                              If I owned this boat, that is what I'd being doing.

                              Now, that discussion pertained to the out drive.

                              If you should do an engine upgrade, there's much more to that as well.

                              .
                              Rick E. Gresham, Oregon
                              2850 Bounty Sedan Flybridge model
                              Twin 280 HP 5.7's w/ Closed Cooling
                              Volvo Penta DuoProp Drives
                              Kohler 4 CZ Gen Set

                              Comment

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