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NMEA 2000 Set up and Electronics Installation-gctid801379

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    NMEA 2000 Set up and Electronics Installation-gctid801379

    As way of introduction, my wife and I retired last June and we moved (back!) to Anacortes to be close to our grandkids and to get back into boating. We lived here for a few years in the late '90's and during that time had an '89 2455 Ciera that was in the water every weekend during the season, "camping on the water" with our 2 daughters. When we moved away from the area we had a 21' Mariah Shaba for a few years but after cutting our boating teeth in the San Juans, going in circles in reservoirs got pretty boring so we were boatless for about 10 years. After looking at dozens of boats over several months we closed on our 4087 (rechristened Why Naut) in October. In the time since then we've begun to become familiar with piloting this "big-to-us" boat and doing the things that are making it ours. I have spent a lot of hours going through this forum, being a sponge and soaking up as much information as I can on a multitude of subjects. The amount of knowledge by individuals and in aggregate that is on this board is amazing!

    The electronics on Why Naut are, to put it mildly, aged junk. After research, we've decided to go Simrad consisting of 4G radar, mid CHIRP tranducer, and (2)- NSS12 evo2 chartplotter MFD's (one for the lower helm and one for the bridge). I'm reasonably mechanical and will install the equipment together with a NMEA 2000 network (there isn't a network currently). That said, I have never pulled cables in a boat. Are there any tricks/tips/suggestions? Secondly, what do I need to do to have the capability for each MFD to be able to operate independently and not have one be simply a monitor to the other? It seems to me the transducer would need to connected to the network to do that but I haven't been able to find the answer in my web research. I know the MFD's need to be connected with an ethernet cable as well as to the network but will that allow the transducer to "talk" to the second MFD if the transducer is connected to the first one?

    Hope my questions are making sense and thanks in advance for any advice! Ca

    Jeff
    Why Naut
    1996 Bayliner 4087
    Twin Cummins 250 HP 6BTA5.9 M2
    Anacortes, WA

    MMSI 338311223

    #2
    N2K devices will not re-broadcast messages that they receive. So, each MFD has to receiveits own message and deal with it. This should be ok as long as both are connected to the N2K backbone.

    Set up thebackbone first and power it from 12v/gnd. Each device attaches to it with a drop cable and a T-connector. Make sure you connect the T's correctly, one terminal is for the dropcable, other two receives and continues signals along the backbone. Two ends of the backbone should be terminated using special terminators. Attach your sending devices towards the middle of the backbone and receivers (MFDs) at the ends, to minimize voltage drop.

    Good luck
    Retired, computer expert / executive
    Bayliner 285 Cruiser / Mercruiser QSD 4.2L 320 HP Diesel
    Live in the Bay Area, CA, USA, boat in Turkey
    D-Marin @ Turgutreis in Bodrum/Turkey
    [email protected]
    [email protected]

    Comment


      #3
      Thanks for the tips on connections of the devices to the backbone, MV. I still am unclear on the depth sounder/transducer question. Will both MFD's have a depth sounder function with the transducer connected to only one of them?
      Why Naut
      1996 Bayliner 4087
      Twin Cummins 250 HP 6BTA5.9 M2
      Anacortes, WA

      MMSI 338311223

      Comment


        #4
        The transducer should be connected to the MFD through a separate input. If the transducer has an N2K output thenconnect that to thebackbone and bothMFDs should se it.
        Retired, computer expert / executive
        Bayliner 285 Cruiser / Mercruiser QSD 4.2L 320 HP Diesel
        Live in the Bay Area, CA, USA, boat in Turkey
        D-Marin @ Turgutreis in Bodrum/Turkey
        [email protected]
        [email protected]

        Comment


          #5
          I just did almost exactly what you are doing, except I used B&G equipment. It's pretty much Simrad stuff with some extra sailing applications. I installed two Zeus Touch 12 MFDs, a 4G radar, and reused the existing transducer with a pigtail adapter cable.

          Pulling cable can be hard. First of all, see if you can use existing, obsolete cables to pull the new ones. If you need to fish cables try using some exterior grade Cat-6 Ethernet cable as the fish tape. It is rigid enough to be pushed through conduits, but will not get stuck or damage existing wires and cables. I also used some water soluble wire pulling lube that I bought at Home Depot.

          Once installed, the MFDs will operate independently; they will not simply mirror one another. The MFDs will independently access the data on the networks: NMEA 2000, and Ethernet. Here's where you may have some issues. If you connect the Ethernet items, like the sounder, directly to one MFD, that MFD will have to be turned on to allow the second MFD to access the data from that device. The way around this is to use a Navico network linker and connect all the Ethernet devices to it. The linker will then distribute the data to both MFDs independently. The other issue is chart data. If you use a chart card (for Canadian Charts, for example), the MFD with the card will have to be turned on for the other MFD to see the card. Otherwise, you will need to get two chart cards.

          Lastly, the Navico network is Ethernet with proprietary connectors. These connectors are quite large and non-removable. This makes fishing these wires almost impossible. You can cut the Navico connector from one end network cable, route it, and install a standard RJ45 plug on the end. Then you can use a Navico Ethernet adapter cable to go from the RJ-45 back to a Navico proprietary connector: Simrad p/n 000-0127-56. You can also use an Ethernet splice connector. In my case I did not route a new Ethernet cable. My boat had older Garmin equipment and the Garmin network cable was already routed. I cut the ends of the cable and used RJ45 plugs plus Ethernet adapter cables at both ends.

          Incidentally, my boat is at Anchor Cove Marina in Anacortes. PM me if you want to come see the installation.
          1999 3788, Cummins 270 "Freedom"
          2013 Boston Whaler 130 SS
          Anacortes, WA

          Comment


            #6
            Jeff, if you had picked Raymarine vs Simrad, I could have provided more specific info on the install. For pulling cables, hopefully other 4087 owners can chime in with a suggested routing from the lower helm to the flybridge etc.

            However you do need to get your head around the connectivity aspects. For example, is the radar hardwired or wifi? Do the Simrad displays have inbuilt GPS or is there a need for a GPS antenna? How will the autopilot connect (via Nmea2000 or otherwise)? If you have a network for the Chirp transducer, radar etc? If you do and try to feed that data to both MFDs that are trying to operate independently, will other conflicts emerge.

            Maybe Simrad are smarter to allow independence for some things and have common feeds for other parts of the system. I'd suggest you spend much time speaking with Simrad experts, online forums etc, draw up a mud map of where the various components will be installed and what cables will be necessary for a "daisy chain" type network and/or the Nmea2000 network. Planning is key though with any installation. How big would your nmea2000 network be? Are there other engine or tank measurement aspects you would like to include down the track?

            Anyway, I trust I've provided some points to think on. Good luck with your install.

            Cheers
            John H
            Brisbane QLD Aust
            "Harbor-nating"

            2000 - 4788/Cummins 370's

            Comment


              #7
              "MonteVista" post=801387 wrote:
              The transducer should be connected to the MFD through a separate input. If the transducer has an N2K output thenconnect that to thebackbone and bothMFDs should se it.
              I believe that the Navico CHIRP transducer requires the use of their broadband sounder module. This module sends its data through the Navico network (Ethernet), not via N2K.
              1999 3788, Cummins 270 "Freedom"
              2013 Boston Whaler 130 SS
              Anacortes, WA

              Comment


                #8
                This is a topic I can help with. I have a similar setup between the two bridges on my 3388. Simrad NSS9 on the upper connected to a Lowrance HDS on the lower. It will be the same setup as your dual Simrads.

                First, between the upper and lower helms you're going to run 2 networks. Both an Ethernet Network and a NMEA2K network. The Ethernet network is used to share Sonar, and Radar data between the two stations while the N2K network shares Waypoints, Autopilot and any engine data you might include. The MFD manufacturers are still about 15 years behind the world of networking.

                If you want both your stations to be independent it can be done, but it does require a little extra hardware. Personally, I don't do this but that was just to save some money. You need to install either two transducers or, install a Simrad Sonar Hub. That will allow either/both stations to view the Sonar independently without the other station being powered on.

                Radar is similar. It networks via Ethernet and for it to operate on it's own you need the Simrad NEP-2 Ethernet switch. Connect the Radar and the Sonar to the switch and then run the Ethernet network cables to both stations. You will need to connect the SonarHub and NEP to an Accessory switch (to power them on) or run a wire to the yellow signal wire on each MFD to signal these devices to power on when you turn on either unit.

                Personally, I avoided buying the NEP and Sonar Hub and made the upper helm the "master". It has to be turned on for the lower to be able to access Sonar and Radar as both these units terminate directly on the upper unit. For me, I always operate from the upper helm and only use the lower while fishing (or if the weather gets miserable and cold) so leaving the upper running is no issue.

                There should be a conduit that runs between your upper and lower helms and hopefully there is room to run both the N2K and Ethernet cables.
                Terry
                1999 Bayliner 3388
                Twin Cummins 4BTA
                Fisherman, Cruiser, Boaticus-enthusiasticus-maximus
                Member Royal Victoria Yacht Club

                Comment


                  #9
                  Terry, I did basically what you did, except I have the radar connected to the upper MFD and the sounder to the lower one.

                  As you mentioned, the sonar hub is one way to connect the Navico network users independently. The other way is to use network expansion module (called linker in some of the Navico documentation). This will allow the use of one of the other Navico sonar modules.
                  1999 3788, Cummins 270 "Freedom"
                  2013 Boston Whaler 130 SS
                  Anacortes, WA

                  Comment


                    #10
                    Just put together the beginning of a system. I have two MFD in the PH. One in the fly. I have two transducer one connected to each MFD in the PH. One MFD is required to be a master. The other can receive info via the network from it. Nothing say you have to stick with any mfd as the master. So you can change things up. As for as my radar. I hooked it to a switch which then can feed out to all three displays. I am still learning as i go. This site will over load you with info.
                    jim and Anna 1994 4788 Refresh 310 Hinos

                    Comment


                      #11
                      Incidentally, if you like to plan routes on a laptop and later upload them to the chart plotters, you will need to upload the routes to both chart plotters if you want full independence. Otherwise, you will need the chart plotter with the routes turned on so the other one can access them through the Navico network.

                      Also, do not waste your $$ on Navico's Insight Planner software. It is total junk. Even the Navico techs do not recommend it. I already had a copy of Garmin Home Port planning software and a Garmin chart card for the areas I cruise in. So I use that for planning routes. Garmin's program is much more intuitive and user friendly.
                      1999 3788, Cummins 270 "Freedom"
                      2013 Boston Whaler 130 SS
                      Anacortes, WA

                      Comment


                        #12
                        Thanks to everyone for the great insight and information! I need to do some more research on the costs of the hubs and associated cabling to see how I want to design my system. Sincerely appreciate your time and consideration. Hopefully I can return the favor with some useful contributions in the future. Safe and enjoyable cruising to all!
                        Why Naut
                        1996 Bayliner 4087
                        Twin Cummins 250 HP 6BTA5.9 M2
                        Anacortes, WA

                        MMSI 338311223

                        Comment


                          #13
                          "TenMile" post=801395 wrote:
                          First, between the upper and lower helms you're going to run 2 networks. Both an Ethernet Network and a NMEA2K network. The Ethernet network is used to share Sonar, and Radar data between the two stations while the N2K network shares Waypoints, Autopilot and any engine data you might include. The MFD manufacturers are still about 15 years behind the world of networking.
                          This is one of the reasons I was looking at the Navico (Simrad / Lowrance / B&G) MFDs. They let you mirror the display over WiFi to a tablet. You don't get the nifty physical controls, but it vastly simplifies the wiring job. I figured I could get away with one display (probably on the flybridge while underway), and use a tablet I move between the lower helm and the cockpit (when fishing) as a second display. And when I don't need the tablet mirroring the display, I can use it to play movies or whatnot.

                          https://youtu.be/S_tF3-4gGQY?t=24s

                          The evo2 requires an add-on WiFi transmitter, but the evo3 has it built in. Or will have it - have only found the evo3 for pre-order so far. And before you ask, as best as I can tell the tablet mirrors the main display. You can't display something different on the tablet than what the MFD is showing. So if you want two screens showing two different things, you need two MFDs. (Really wish they'll address this going forward since computers have had multiple virtual desktops since the 1990s. But with what these MFDs cost I can see why they'd drag their feet adding the capability.)
                          1994 2556, 350 MAG MPI Horizon, Bravo 2

                          Comment


                            #14
                            That is way cool with the tablet mirroring the MFD, TenMile! No one had shown that feature to me before I invested in the second NSS12 inch: . I'm not computer illiterate but not naturally inclined, either. Unless someone points things like this out to me I don't know enough to ask. I don't have wifi on the boat yet but have it in mind for another upgrade at some point. Never an end to things that can be done until the bank account runs dry :lol: .
                            Why Naut
                            1996 Bayliner 4087
                            Twin Cummins 250 HP 6BTA5.9 M2
                            Anacortes, WA

                            MMSI 338311223

                            Comment


                              #15
                              "Norton Rider" post=801389 wrote:
                              Lastly, the Navico network is Ethernet with proprietary connectors. These connectors are quite large and non-removable. This makes fishing these wires almost impossible. You can cut the Navico connector from one end network cable, route it, and install a standard RJ45 plug on the end. Then you can use a Navico Ethernet adapter cable to go from the RJ-45 back to a Navico proprietary connector: Simrad p/n 000-0127-56. You can also use an Ethernet splice connector. In my case I did not route a new Ethernet cable. My boat had older Garmin equipment and the Garmin network cable was already routed. I cut the ends of the cable and used RJ45 plugs plus Ethernet adapter cables at both ends.
                              Do you know if the Navico ethernet cable uses some proprietary wiring, or is it just Cat 5/6 cable with proprietary connectors?

                              If the latter, couldn't you just buy a https://www.westmarine.com/buy/simra...ethernet cable (costs less than the RJ-45 to Navico adapter you linked), cut it in half, and wire the cut ends to some https://www.amazon.com/Cable-Matters...RJ45 keystones to make your own adapters? It wouldn't be waterproof (at least not without a lot of silicone), but if you're using that adapter it's already not waterproof.
                              1994 2556, 350 MAG MPI Horizon, Bravo 2

                              Comment

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