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    Fuel filtering and pumps-gctid340766

    Can you identify the "black" colored piece in this photo? Sorry picture is sideways... I think it is another filter of some sorts.

    Can this item be bypassed?

    I see a cloth covered fuel hose from the mystery black item to the mechanical pump... Huuumm, a cloth covered hose, wonder how old that thing is. I think I am going to replace the fuel delivery system.

    Thoughts are, electric fuel pumps... Have read all the pros and cons, going electric with oil pressure cut off, which seems to be a great safety feature for those who get lazy reading gauges... (OK, thats not really me, I look all the time) Really like the idea of priming the carb float bowl area and the engine firing off right away... I think my mechanicals might be original, although the rebuild was 498 hours ago, and the old hour meter is 1600 hrs...

    Any recommendations on the fuel pumps? I see the Carter system bolts up right where the mechanicals come off... That might make for a nice clean install.... but I always thought elec pumps were "pushers" not "suckers" of fuel... Is that the case here?

    What is the electronic mod that give a bit more spark ummph? I have 1980 technology here... But ya know, it has worked for 30 years!

    Attached files [img]/media/kunena/attachments/vb/643326=23254-Fuel.jpg[/img]

    #2
    If it is like my 3218, it is a metal mesh fuel filter element inside of it. As long as you have proper filtration to the engine and its systems you can install any fuel filter system you like.
    Patrick and Patti
    4588 Pilothouse 1991
    12ft Endeavor RIB 2013
    M/V "Paloma"
    MMSI # 338142921

    Comment


      #3
      1. Yes I think it is a filter, possibly the original filter, the white fuel filter was likely added later.

      2. You could by pass it, but why? Is it causing a restriction?

      3. Fuel pump recommendations? Sorry no experience with that.

      4. Electric fuel pumps do both, they suck from the fuel tank and push to the engine. Some auto fuel pumps sit in the fuel tank, and those are pretty much pushers only.

      5. Recommendations on ignition upgrade? I'll let someone else tackle that one too.

      Comment


        #4
        Thanks guys... Yes I believe the Racor filter was put in at a later date, although not sure. Did not these exist back then? The black filter, kind of hard to see in the pic, is squishing the hose near it, causing a wear area, for it is pushed into the motor mount bracket. I noticed the same "hose proximity issue" on the oil filter hose runs / mounting bracket.... too close to the hose that feeds the rear of the exhaust manifold, and the oil filter hose (the one I found leaking, and this could have been the cause, vibrating up against each other). The exhaust manifold hose is almost worn thru! I'm going to replace that, and pay particular attention to hose routing. Appears this was not a hugh consideration for whoever worked on this boat's engines before.

        Comment


          #5
          penguin wrote:
          • 1 wrote:
          • Can you identify the "black" colored piece in this photo? Sorry picture is sideways... I think it is another filter of some sorts.

            Can this item be bypassed?
          • I see a cloth covered fuel hose from the mystery black item to the mechanical pump... Huuumm, a cloth covered hose, wonder how old that thing is. I think I am going to replace the fuel delivery system.
          • Thoughts are, electric fuel pumps... Have read all the pros and cons, going electric with oil pressure cut off, which seems to be a great safety feature for those who get lazy reading gauges... (OK, thats not really me, I look all the time) Really like the idea of priming the carb float bowl area and the engine firing off right away... I think my mechanicals might be original, although the rebuild was 498 hours ago, and the old hour meter is 1600 hrs...
          • Any recommendations on the fuel pumps? I see the Carter system bolts up right where the mechanicals come off... That might make for a nice clean install.... but I always thought elec pumps were "pushers" not "suckers" of fuel... Is that the case here?
          • What is the electronic mod that give a bit more spark ummph? I have 1980 technology here... But ya know, it has worked for 30 years!



          • 1 wrote:
          • That is an old canister type fuel filter of yesteryear. Volvo Penta, possibly Crusader, Indamar, PCM and a hand full of others used this.

            I'd remove it completely and stay with the single RACOR that you have there.
          • The only fuel hose that I see that may be current, is the one from the RACOR to the old, outdated filter.

            Note the USCG TYPE A1 SAE J1527/ISO

            As inexpensive as this hose is, you should definitely replace them, and use the Euro style "diameter correct" band clamps.
          • The Electric Fuel pump is certainly an option.

            Filter is to be placed upstream of the pump inlet as it appears to be now.
          • Carter should good.

            These draw fuel to them.... push past them...., just as your mechanical pump does now.
          • 30 years, and it's high time to at minimum have your curve/limit looked and checked against OEM specs.

            There are two aspects to the ignition system:

            Electronic Igntion pertains to the triggering side... IOW, side that triggers the spark event.

            My preference is VR triggering.... ( magnetic triggering via Variable Reluctor) VR with a good coil will do just fine.

            Mallory YLM and perhaps several others, would be VR

            Then there's Photo Eye like Merc's TB, Mallory's YLU, Delco Voyager, etc.

            Photo Eye can be either EST (Merc TB or Vayager) or Mechanical Spark Advance (Mallory YLU).

            Hall Effect would be the Pertronix conversion kits (which I would steer clear of).

            Then we have the secondary output voltage (the ZAP to the spark plugs) is a result of the Ignition Coil.

            Hot Coil vs a not so Hot Coil.

            Then there is HEI (high energy igntion) of which I believe are mostly Photo Eye.

            HEI's secondary voltage is quite higher.

            HEI is available in both mechanical advance and EST (electronic spark timing).

            Quite a bit to chew over while making a decision.

            IMO...... A good bang for the buck and dependability would be the

            YLM 624AV ........ and YLM 624BV if the Stbd engine is RH.




          Rick E. Gresham, Oregon
          2850 Bounty Sedan Flybridge model
          Twin 280 HP 5.7's w/ Closed Cooling
          Volvo Penta DuoProp Drives
          Kohler 4 CZ Gen Set

          Comment


            #6
            I meant to say pushed into the fuel pump! Oooops.

            Comment


              #7
              2850Bounty wrote:
              • 1 wrote:
              • That is an old canister type fuel filter of yesteryear. Volvo Penta, possibly Crusader, Indamar, PCM and a hand full of others used this.

                I'd remove it completely and stay with the single RACOR that you have there.
              • The only fuel hose that I see that may be current, is the one from the RACOR to the old, outdated filter.

                Note the USCG TYPE A1 SAE J1527/ISO

                As inexpensive as this hose is, you should definitely replace them, and use the Euro style "diameter correct" band clamps.
              • The Electric Fuel pump is certainly an option.

                Filter is to be placed upstream of the pump inlet as it appears to be now.
              • Carter should good.

                These draw fuel to them.... push past them...., just as your mechanical pump does now.
              • There are two aspects to this:

                Electronic Igntion pertains to the triggering side... IOW, side that triggers the spark event.

                My preference is VR triggering.... ( magnetic triggering via Variable Reluctor) VR with a good coil will do just fine.

                Mallory YLM and perhaps several others, would be VR

                Then there's Photo Eye like Merc's TB, Mallory's YLU, Delco Voyager, etc.

                Photo Eye can be either EST (Merc TB or Vayager) or Mechanical Spark Advance (Mallory YLU).

                Hall Effect would be the Pertronix conversion kits (which I would steer clear of).

                Then we have the secondary output voltage (the ZAP to the spark plugs) is a result of the Ignition Coil.

                Hot Coil vs a not so Hot Coil.

                Then there is HEI (high energy igntion) of which I believe are mostly Photo Eye.

                HEI's secondary voltage is quite higher.

                HEI is available in both mechanical advance and EST (electronic spark timing).

                Quite a bit to chew over.

              Thank you Rick! Consider that old filter history. Will follow other advise. Is the VR system to a dedicated coil and different / better plug wires? I'm also concerned about ignition noise getting into the sound system... Can't stand it...

              Comment


                #8
                Oooops, I was doing an edit when you quoted me.

                See changes.

                penguin wrote:
                Is the VR system to a dedicated coil and different / better plug wires? I'm also concerned about ignition noise getting into the sound system... Can't stand it...
                Jim, you are wellcome.

                The VR (variable reluctor) is the type of triggering unit.

                In your case, it would be an 8 pointed magnetically charged star looking thingy (reluctor), that passes each piont by a pick-up or sensor unit.



                This replaces the former contact points shown here.



                It could just as easily be contact pionts, photo eye, hall effect, or grandma on the telegraph key!

                All were doing at this point is making and breaking the primary coil circuit.

                The secondary side of the ignition coil is where the high voltage is produced.



                Some system architectures are open to an array of coils.

                Some require a proprietary coil (Merc TB for example).

                Attached files http://baylinerownersclub.org/media/....jpg[/img] http://baylinerownersclub.org/media/....jpg[/img]
                Rick E. Gresham, Oregon
                2850 Bounty Sedan Flybridge model
                Twin 280 HP 5.7's w/ Closed Cooling
                Volvo Penta DuoProp Drives
                Kohler 4 CZ Gen Set

                Comment


                  #9
                  Thanks again Rick... Yeah, I seem to remember the turns ratio of XFMR and coils, which is how we get the high voltage... I'm a DeVry grad, so understanding electronics is something I can follow well. Ditching the points I will do as well. VR will be the choice, although the Mallroy distributors will add another 600 bones to the expenses... Well worth it though. I'll get the fuel system up to snuf, clean those pathetic carbs and rebuild them too (quads, need to look into that epoxy mod for leak prevention, which I think I have, burns rich), and get the ignition switched to VR. Of course plugs, coils and wires too if needed / beneficial. For peace of mind, and to erase that concerned expression from Michele's face (she is worried about the purchase of an old boat), I think having engines that fire up instantly will give her added confidence... Not to mention the McGuyver points I'll gain.... (with the outstanding help of others I might add)...

                  Comment


                    #10
                    http://www.aaamarine.com/servlet/the...rtronix/Detail

                    See if your interested in this. ^

                    If this were my motor i would: Replace all the fuel hose. Start from the tank. I would put the filter before the pump and have nothing between the pump and the carb.

                    Why i say replace ALL the hose is the new gas eats old style hoses quick leaving pieces in the filter clogging carbs.
                    Be good, be happy, for tomorrow is promised to no man !

                    1994 2452, 5.0l, Alpha gen. 2 drive. Sold ! Sold ! Sold !

                    '86 / 19' Citation cuddy, Merc. 3.0L / 140 hp 86' , stringer drive. Sold ! Sold ! Sold !

                    Manalapan N.J

                    Comment


                      #11
                      penguin wrote:
                      ............
                      • 1 wrote:
                      • Ditching the points I will do as well. VR will be the choice, although the Mallroy distributors will add another 600 bones to the expenses... Well worth it though.
                      • I'll get the fuel system up to snuf, clean those pathetic carbs and rebuild them too (quads, need to look into that epoxy mod for leak prevention, which I think I have, burns rich), and get the ignition switched to VR.
                      • Of course plugs, coils and wires too if needed / beneficial.



                      • 1 wrote:
                      • It can be expensive..... no question about it.

                        The Pertronix kits are always an option, however, these are Hall Effect, and quite frankly do zero towards correcting any shaft wobble (a dwell concern) and/or to correct any mechanical advancing issues from worm flyweights, worn returns springs, worn or out of adjustment limit stops, etc.

                        Pertronicx kits run about $100 ea......., and if you have the Prestolites re-bushed, re-curved, limit set, etc....., you're into each one another $90 or so.... totaling just shy of $200 each.

                        I say throw that $$ towards new distributors.
                      • Not all Q-jets used epoxy to seal off machining ports. You'd have to turn one over and take a peek.

                        Q-jets are very good carburetors, and something very similar may be used today had it not been for TBI and FI, etc.

                        They are also very misunderstood and tricky for the average Joe to over-haul. http://"http://www.google.com/search...to a web site.

                        The paint may not be the issue that you think it is. Both Merc and Volvo Penta painted their Q-jets for years.

                        I'd clean out the low and high speed metering circuits at the Air Path Orifices (the tiny brass inserts above and to the side of the throttle bores) by carefully spraying each with a carb cleaner... and see what happens.

                        When any of these become restricted, fuel metering becomes enriched.

                        Here's a typical Main Metering "air/fuel path" diagram.

                        The low speed metering is similar and still uses the brass orifice, but the air volume is adjustable externally.

                      • I think you asked about spark plug wires and radio interference.

                        Most of these today are carbon fiber conductors, so I don't think that you'll have an issue.



                      Rick E. Gresham, Oregon
                      2850 Bounty Sedan Flybridge model
                      Twin 280 HP 5.7's w/ Closed Cooling
                      Volvo Penta DuoProp Drives
                      Kohler 4 CZ Gen Set

                      Comment

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