The age old Battery issue-gctid390945

[Guest]

Looking for some conclusive guidance here with the help of the great members on this forum.

I have 2004 Bayliner 288 w/350 Mag. Shore power and 2 batteries.

Need new batteries. Have MBS with the typical 1-2-both-off selector. Boat came with 2 27 sized, what appear to be Walmart batteries, Maxstart I believe is the name, not sure the age. I am concerned about fumes and corrosion from typical flooded batteries, especially since I can smell the one going bad!

I have decided to replace both, in a precautionary move to avoid being stranded. I spend some weekends on hook, and some in marinas. I DO NOT have shore power at home marina, as it is dry storage (rack). So I am charging batteries while running or visiting marina. I am considering putting in AGM's, am looking at Optima blue top 27's. I now read one of the drawbacks to them is AH (amp hour I think) rating. I like the idea of no venting, adding water and freezing issues. Not entirely sure the best choice though. Am also considering going with one starting and one deep cycle, both flooded. If I go with two battery types am I asking for trouble? If I have 2 types how would I use the MBS, I would guess on battery 1 (starting) for engine start and run, and battery (deep cycle) while on the hook. If I do that, in morning when I start back up on battery 1 can I move switch to battery 2 to charge it, or move to both to charge both. Will the stock alternator "know' the battery difference? Will it charge both types at once? Otherwise I have no recharge method until I stay overnight at marina again.

Not to sound snooty, but I do not want to choose based on price, I do not mind paying for superior performance, don't want to cheap out and be sorry. I was ready to order 2 of the Optima, which claim to be dual purpose, and be done. But now not sure.

Is there a reliable resource to give guidance on the use of the MBS and when to be on 1-2 or both settings. I have always found it confusing and whenever I arrive at the boat I put the switch on both and go, only changing to either one or two when I anchor up overnight, to assure I can start in the morning by reserving one battery.

By the way I have a "smart charger" wired to the batteries, not the switch. It will not come off bulk charge on the "smelly" battery. I leave the MBS on both when on shorepower too, not sure if that is correct either.

Appreciate any help. Thanks

[2850Bounty]

You may find different takes on this from Doug, Jim Mc, Larry, Hans, Mike A. Harv, and many others, who are as well or more so equipped to answer your questions than I am.

These are my opinions only!

trode wrote:

• 1 wrote:
• Am also considering going with one starting and one deep cycle, both flooded.
• If I go with two battery types am I asking for trouble?
• If I have 2 types how would I use the MBS, I would guess on battery 1 (starting) for engine start and run, and battery (deep cycle) while on the hook. If I do that, in morning when I start back up on battery 1 can I move switch to battery 2 to charge it, or move to both to charge both.
• Will the stock alternator "know' the battery difference?
• Will it charge both types at once? Otherwise I have no recharge method until I stay overnight at marina again.
• Not to sound snooty, but I do not want to choose based on price, I do not mind paying for superior performance, don't want to cheap out and be sorry. I was ready to order 2 of the Optima, which claim to be dual purpose, and be done. But now not sure.
• Is there a reliable resource to give guidance on the use of the MBS and when to be on 1-2 or both settings. I have always found it confusing and whenever I arrive at the boat I put the switch on both and go, only changing to either one or two when I anchor up overnight, to assure I can start in the morning by reserving one battery.
• By the way I have a "smart charger" wired to the batteries, not the switch. It will not come off bulk charge on the "smelly" battery.
• I leave the MBS on both when on shorepower too, not sure if that is correct either.

• 1 wrote:
• That would be my choice!
• NO.... not at all!
• Two types as in 1 cranking and multiple Deep Cycles???? Or two types as in different chemistry???
  
  You should be able to use the MBSS just as any of us do!
  
  Crank on #1, warm engine and charge #1 while doing so.
  
  Switch to #2, and charge this bank while reaching your destination. Stay on #2 until time to fire up and leave.
  
  Remember..... the MBSS selects the bank that the boat's entire system operates from, and during that duration only.
  
  It also directs the engine alternator charge during engine operation.
• Again, the MBSS will allow you to "select" the bank that will receive the Alternator charge.
  
  The MBSS will play no role in the O/B Charger's function, when configured correctly.... other than if ALL/BOTH are selected...., and you DO NOT want to do this!
  
  This combines battery banks, and prevents the 2 charge leads from being independant of one another.
• IMO, you'll want to avoid this. For this, you can install a VSR or an ACR unit, and it will manage the alternator charge for you.
• Good attitude.
  
  IMO, there is no such thing as a "dual purpose" battery that can be both a cranking battery and a Deep Cycle battery.
  
  I'd use a cranking battery in the #1 bank......, and Deep Cycles (plural, as in multiples) in the #2 bank.
• Think of your MBSS as for what it is......... Main Battery Selector Switch.
  
  YOU select which bank that you want the boat's system to operate FROM, and from which YOU direct engine alternator charge TO.
  
  ALL/BOTH combine battery banks.
  
  There is no reason to combine these banks, other than a scenario whereby you require both banks for starting the engine.
  
  If you keep #1 in "reserve", you should not need to do this.
• Well, you probably know my take on direct battery connections for O/B Charger leads, and other items! :thumb
  
  You have the perfect charge lead termination point right at the rear of your MBSS..... #1 and # 2 terminals.
  
  
• If the boat is left unattended, the MBSS can and should be turned to the OFF position.
  
  Your O/B Charger won't even know the difference, unless you tell it!

Edit:

This is from Bayliner.

Please take note as per the bottom line under the heading; Battery Charger

ALL/BOTH Position being selected......... Batteries will NOT charge properly

[706jim]

This is a good time to do some "thread" homework regarding golf cart batteries.

Four of these (two series pairs) will weigh around 250-260lb; somewhat more than two group 27's, but not unmanageably so.

I think these have better deep cycle performance than the 27's would exhibit.

So.......

The question is: Will two GC's be adequate for starting batteries? I think they would, but haven't actually tried to use them this way. Others on this board (can't recall who just now) say they work just fine.

(Just thought of something: With both sets of batteries turned on, I can't imagine 4 GC's not cranking anything short of a large diesel)

[2850Bounty]

Jim, yes, they will do the job.

It also helps greatly if the engines fire quickly, and it helps if we are using the HTGR/PMGR starter motors.

Most of our newer boats use this style starter motor.

It's the older boats where we may still find the old non-gear reduction motors..... and believe it or not...., these are still being offered out there! :thumb

.

[Jeffw]

I have 1 starting 12 volt and two 6 volt Trojan golf cart batteries. The house load, including 2000 watt inverter, are on the two Trojans. I'm not sure where the genset get's it's juice. This setup works very well for a couple nights on the hook. The genset is starboard, and the 3 batteries and the water heater are on port side, above the waste tank. The PO had two more Trojans there as well, it was too much weight, boat had a list to port.

[Guest]

I have (1) - group 24 flooded starting and (2) - group 31 flooded house batteries (Seavolt). I never have trouble with power for 2-3 days on the hook. After that amount of time, I need to charge.

I personally would stay away from Optimum and the duel purpose batteries, JMO

Also with AGM you do lose some AH rating, but not much. If it buys you peace of mind, get them.

Golf cart batteries are a good way to go, if you can afford the weight of them - especially on smaller boats.

[Guest]

"Jeff H;694683]I have (1) - group 24 flooded starting and (2) - group 31 flooded house batteries (Seavolt)."

So I could put 2 deep cycle batteries hooked up parallel (Neg to Neg, Pos to Pos) to position 2 on MBSS and a starting battery on position 1 of MBSS, then start on 1 and charge back to full during warm up and leaving marina, then while cruising switch to 2 and that will charge my house bank and use it for electronics and "stuff" (lights, fan, tv on inverter, etc...)

If that is right I think that is what I will do.

Now with the two house batteries in parallel it wouldn't matter which one I hook up the accesories to, correct?

Thanks for the input - I think I will forget the Optima batteries and stay with the flooded, but go with two types (and yes, Bounty, I meant starting and deep cycle, not different chemistry)

Will my charger charge both batteries in parallel?

Thanks

[Guest]

trode wrote:
So I could put 2 deep cycle batteries hooked up parallel (Neg to Neg, Pos to Pos) to position 2 on MBSS and a starting battery on position 1 of MBSS, then start on 1 and charge back to full during warm up and leaving marina, then while cruising switch to 2 and that will charge my house bank and use it for electronics and "stuff" (lights, fan, tv on inverter, etc...)

If you want to do this all the time (switching) I would really install a switch with AFD. I would bet that one day you will accidentially switch to OFF and then your alternator diodes are gone. Costs you more than a switch with AFD....

trode wrote:
Will my charger charge both batteries in parallel?

Yes, it will charge the two batteries in parallel but only as long as they are both very similar. If they age differently (temperature, chemistry, manufacturing tolerances) there is a potential problem. Batteries could either be both damaged at the end or one doesn't get charged any more. If you need the capacity of the 2 batteries in parallel and have the space why not buy one with the dimensions of them combined? Or 2x 6V batteries?

[Guest]

trode:

You wrote: "Not to sound snooty, but I do not want to choose based on price, I do not mind paying for superior performance, don't want to cheap out and be sorry."

In that case I recommend: http://rollsbattery.com/

These guys are probably closest dealer:

Carolina Crawler Equipment & Marine

Charleston, SC 29418

1.843.767.2672

Safe and Happy Boating!

ColonyCove

[2850Bounty]

There's a tad bit more to this.... but you're on the right track.

trode wrote:


So I could put 2 deep cycle batteries hooked up parallel (Neg to Neg, Pos to Pos) to position 2 on MBSS

[COLOR]"#0000FF" wrote:
The HLBB will connect to "terminal" #2 on the MBSS. In order to use this bank, you will select the #2 MBSS position.

(I know... I'm a stickler for terminology!)

The correct configuration (for two 12 v batts in parallel) will look like this.

Note where the main Negative cable connection is. [/COLOR]



and a starting battery on position 1 of MBSS,

[COLOR]"#0000FF" wrote:
Again, this will be "terminal" #1. [/COLOR]

then start on 1 and charge back to full during warm up and leaving marina, then while cruising switch to 2 and that will charge my house bank and use it for electronics and "stuff" (lights, fan, tv on inverter, etc...)

[COLOR]"#0000FF" wrote:
Bingo! [/COLOR]

If that is right I think that is what I will do.

Now with the two house batteries in parallel it wouldn't matter which one I hook up the accesories to, correct?

[COLOR]"#0000FF" wrote:
If you wish to Interrupt these circuits when you leave the boat unattended, you'll want this connection to be the MBSS "Common" terminal.

There is ZERO need for any direct battery connections, IMO.

Let your MBSS do what it's supposed to do! [/COLOR]

Thanks for the input - I think I will forget the Optima batteries and stay with the flooded, but go with two types (and yes, Bounty, I meant starting and deep cycle, not different chemistry)

[COLOR]"#0000FF" wrote:
[/COLOR][COLOR]"#0000FF" wrote:
Just for clarity.... a flooded cell cranking battery uses the same chemistry as does a flooded cell Deep Cycle.

It's the internal design of the two batteries that separate them from their intended usage. [/COLOR]

[Guest]

What's wrong with having two Optima dual purpose (blue-top)? I've been running these for years without a glitch whatsoever. My theory is, if I had one starting and one deep cycle battery... and the starting battery went kaput I'd be dead in the water. With the Optimas, not ony do I have two deep cycles, but I also have a spare starting battery. Yes, they're expensive in terms of $ per Ah but in my experience they've lasted much longer than the alternative, they're durable, and basically maintenance free.

[Guest]

I agree, AGM batteries are the better choice for something sitting somewhere as their self discharge rate is a lot lower. I have some in my offroad vehicle and after 9 months they still have around 75% capacity (a regular battery would be dead).

The only problem he has is the two batteries in parallel. Ricks circuit helps but only if the batteries are from the same manufacturing batch and see the same heat in their life. As soon as you have offsets they will charge and discharge differently and die faster then a single battery would. But that's the same for all batteries and not specific to AGM's which are actually better matched.

[Guest]

Boat came with 2 27 sized, what appear to be Walmart batteries

At the risk of ridicule, I have to say I'm going on my fourth year with a Walmart deep cycle battery. I bought it thinking...it's so cheap, if I have to replace it in one year, I've still not lost anything. Four years later it's still seems fine. Just saying.

[Guest]

Walmart batteries are a lot better than their reputation! I use them in all my vehicles except the boat since 12 years and never had a problem with them. Even in the AZ heat they last 5+ years.

[706jim]

I have 12 Dunlop GC's bought from Sam's (some cousin of a Walmart?) in 1996.

They are still going strong in a solar electric system.

So just because they were bought at Wally's doesn't mean they're no good.

(BTW, these sit for about 4 months every winter in a charged state but exposed to pretty cold temperatures; down to -20F)