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    Am I Doing Something Wrong?-gctid388180

    1978 Bayliner Saratoga- 305 Volvo Penta Motor with 280 Outdrive. The raw water pump is a Jabsco that I just replaced the impeller in. This boat and the inboard/outdrive setup are new to me. I replaced the thermostat and the impeller yesterday.

    The boat has not run for six years and I got her fired up today. I have tried many methods to get the water pumping through the unit.

    I have the outdrive sitting in a tub with the water level over the intakes on the front of the outdrive. See Picture Titled "Outdrive in Tub" I used a hose to prime the pump and fill things up and the raw water does not pump.

    I then tried muffs in the tub so that there might be a little pressure and get the raw water pump going. Nothing...

    I then took out the impeller to see if there was something wrong with it. It looks fine.

    I then added a T Fitting with a hosebib screwed in to the raw water intake hose. See either of the pictures titled "Engine" and I hooked the hose into that, started the motor and water pumps through the engine and out the water outlet and exhaust. As long as I keep the hose water from the house running, everything works fine but as soon as I turn off the water from the house, the water stops coming out of the little black outlet that I have shown in the picture titled, "water outlet"

    I thought... OK the intake is clogged but if I run the house water hose without the engine running, it squirts water out of the outdrive intake so I don't think that is clogged. If I pour water into the out of the raw water pump, it shoots it back in my face so the pump is turning the correct way.

    Could my water level be too low for the pump to suck? What else could it be?

    I am making headway... thanks much to this site!!!

    Dave

    Attached files [img]/media/kunena/attachments/vb/691728=28377-Engine 1.jpg[/img] [img]/media/kunena/attachments/vb/691728=28378-Engine 2.jpg[/img] [img]/media/kunena/attachments/vb/691728=28379-OutDrive In Tub.jpg[/img] [img]/media/kunena/attachments/vb/691728=28376-Water Outlet.jpg[/img]

    #2
    Check the water neck. It's the fitting on the outdrive that carries the water thru the transom.

    Check it very carefully. Mine had some very small holes on the bottom due to corrosion.

    After going over the entire path including the water neck , I was ready to either set the boat on fire or smash it with a sledge hammer.

    Then I found it and all was well

    Comment


      #3
      Did you see any wearing/grooves in the water pump? While a new impeller was a fantastic idea, it may not do much if there are grooves worn in the cover plate (the cover you removed to install the impeller) or grooves worn on the back side of the pump. If there are grooves, it reduces the suction and reduces the ability of the pump to "pump."

      Note that running on the muffs won't put much pressure, if any, if you are NOT plugging the hole on the bottom front edge of the drive. There is a small drain hole there. If you were running on muffs ONLY (meaning no tub), then you would definitely need to plug this hole or water will just drain out and never make it to the engine.

      As previously mentioned, the water "neck" may also be corroded and sucking air, as these are prone to (hidden) corrosion (such as at the connection point to the rubber hose). Random thought, try removing the main incoming raw water line at the Jabsco pump, fill with water, and see if it drains back out the outdrive. Check for leaks along the way (including the main raw water line between transom and jabsco pump), the rubber hose between transom plate and water neck, and the water neck itself. Did someone install a water filter on that main raw water line? A previous owner installed a filter on my current boat back by the oil filter, and I don't like it and will be removing it (we boat in "clean" water anyway).

      What's that brass valve doing there right next to the jabsco pump--is that one you said just installed yourself as the "T"? If this is where you are running a garden hose, it sounds like you are already doing what I said above with filling the incoming raw water line and seeing if it drains backwards. But I would add to that to check the points along the way to see if you see any leaks. If you do see leaks, it could mean air is being sucked in when the pump is trying to run.

      I can't quite make out the water level in your container vs. the drive, but the level needs to be above the small "grills" on the lower unit.

      Comment


        #4
        yeah, i bet it's the water neck fitting. instead of cutting a hole in your hose, you could have just followed that hose to the back of the engine compartment, taken it off of the fitting that goes to the water neck and shoved a water hose in it.

        stay strong and don't get frustrated. just think about how much money you're saving doing it yourself.

        Comment


          #5
          There were some small grooves on the cover plate. I showed them to the repair guy at the shop where I bought the impeller and he didn't think they were a big deal. I thought about installing the cover plate with the outside in... the bolt holes do all line up.

          I'm thinking that the intake hose or the neck must have a leak in it as when I turn the hose on, I get a dribble near the through neck. I will dig into that this evening. Thanks for the lead. This totally makes sense.

          I did have the water level up above the intakes but it is about 1/2 inch below the exhaust outlet.

          I'll post again later tonight with the results. Thanks again for the help.

          Dave

          Comment


            #6
            Dave, this is very likely a water neck fitting problem. One tiny tiny air leak and suction will be breached. And it does not take much to breach suction.

            You have a Jabsco sea water pump. What is the pump model number?

            If this is the large volume Jabsco pump, the impeller is very specific to this pump.

            Wrong impeller (Johnson for example) and you will have no pump action.

            Also, I'd remove that garden hose connection from your suction hose.

            Unless this is a home-made flushing system for a boat moored in salt water, there is no need for that connection when all else is working.

            If you choose to leave it, make sure that there is no suction breach here.

            Attached files [img]/media/kunena/attachments/vb/692052=28401-Arizona Dave drive.jpg[/img]
            Rick E. Gresham, Oregon
            2850 Bounty Sedan Flybridge model
            Twin 280 HP 5.7's w/ Closed Cooling
            Volvo Penta DuoProp Drives
            Kohler 4 CZ Gen Set

            Comment


              #7
              Watching carefully with water running into the system through my installed hose T I can see water leaking out just below the water neck fitting. I believe you all have identified it as a beaded gasket. The water neck itself is not leaking it is just below the fitting.

              Can anyone direct me to some instructions on replacing that beaded gasked?

              Making headway!!!!

              Thanks all.

              Dave

              Comment


                #8
                Anybody???

                Comment


                  #9
                  ArizonaDave wrote:
                  Watching carefully with water running into the system through my installed hose T I can see water leaking out just below the water neck fitting. I believe you all have identified it as a beaded gasket. The water neck itself is not leaking it is just below the fitting.
                  Dave, replacing the water neck fitting should be on your list of routine maintenance items. This is a wear part.

                  Now, the beaded gasket will be self explanatory once you remove the neck fitting.

                  Bead faces down!

                  However, if the upper pivot tube bushing is worn, the new beaded gasket will only last for a while.

                  Eventual play and slop will wear away at the bead, and as the bead eventually looses resilency, it will also loose the seal here.

                  If you have any excessive slop here, I'd recommend replacing the bushing.

                  (this gets rather involved, so get a hold of me, and I'll explain the best way to go about this)

                  To remove the water neck, apply heat to the surrounding fork area that houses the female threads.

                  This will expand the aluminum and the thread insert some, and will lesson the chance of snapping a screw off.

                  You DO NOT want to break a screw off here.

                  Use a thread sealant, or Perfect Seal, on the threads when going back together.

                  The bead alone rotates against the top of the pivot tube, so grease the bead with water proof grease.

                  Don't forget the lower pivot tube O-ring, if you suspect it needs to be replaced.

                  When these parts are replaced, we seldom have any suction issues.

                  No need for clear hose, no need for anything out of the ordinary.

                  .
                  Rick E. Gresham, Oregon
                  2850 Bounty Sedan Flybridge model
                  Twin 280 HP 5.7's w/ Closed Cooling
                  Volvo Penta DuoProp Drives
                  Kohler 4 CZ Gen Set

                  Comment


                    #10
                    How do I get to the bolts holding the water neck in? The bolts look like either allen bolts or star bolts and there is a bellows in the way. Do I take the bellows off? I tried to get an Allen wrench in there but it is tight and I'm afraid it is going to slip. Anyone know if they are allen or star bolts? I can see a hole in the middle of the bolt but I can't see the details.

                    Dave

                    Comment


                      #11
                      They should be allen bolts, but there's always a chance a previous owner etc... replaced them with something else. The easiest access is with the transmission (upper unit)/bellows removed. I've personally never just tried to replace the water neck, so I don't know the bare minimum just to get that swapped. There's usually a series of things I've done all at once "while I'm in there" so to speak. Bellows, Ujoints, drive oil, rubber intake hose (connected to water neck), new seals on the fill/drain/inspection plugs on the drive, water neck, new o-rings between transmission and intermediate unit at a minimum.

                      Comment


                        #12
                        ArizonaDave wrote:
                        How do I get to the bolts holding the water neck in? The bolts look like either allen bolts or star bolts and there is a bellows in the way. Do I take the bellows off? I tried to get an Allen wrench in there but it is tight and I'm afraid it is going to slip. Anyone know if they are allen or star bolts? I can see a hole in the middle of the bolt but I can't see the details.

                        Dave
                        You go to the BOC Vault, and you look at the http://"http://www.baylinerownersclu... & A&#39;s</b>thread.

                        Or..................

                        Optimus wrote:
                        The easiest access is with the transmission (upper unit)/bellows removed. I've personally never just tried to replace the water neck, so I don't know the bare minimum just to get that swapped. There's usually a series of things I've done all at once "while I'm in there" so to speak. Bellows, Ujoints, drive oil, rubber intake hose (connected to water neck), new seals on the fill/drain/inspection plugs on the drive, water neck, new o-rings between transmission and intermediate unit at a minimum.
                        Dave, be sure to apply some heat to the suspension fork in the general area of the thread inserts.

                        A bit of heat may prevent you from breaking a bolt off.

                        Penetrating oils just won't cut it!

                        .
                        Rick E. Gresham, Oregon
                        2850 Bounty Sedan Flybridge model
                        Twin 280 HP 5.7's w/ Closed Cooling
                        Volvo Penta DuoProp Drives
                        Kohler 4 CZ Gen Set

                        Comment


                          #13
                          Got the water neck off!!!Feeling quite proud of myself... with a lot of help from all of you.Based on the condition of the neck I'm thinking either the neck or the gasket is the problem. I ordered the following parts...

                          [img]/media/kunena/attachments/vb/693780=28574-Water Neck.jpg[/img]82942 Plastic Bushing - Volvo - 18-4204 1 7.25 7.2582608 Hose Connection - Volvo, 18-2778The gasket comes with the 82608 hose connection. How do I replace the plastic bushing?

                          Comment


                            #14
                            OK, I replaced the water neck and the gasket and I am trying to get the Upper Transmission U-Joint to slide onto the spline that comes out of the engine... trying... trying... Is there a trick or is it just a matter of fighting it until it slides on? It is 112 degrees in Phoenix so I've been trying to work early mornings but I'm still spent in just about 5 minutes after holding the upper transmission up with one hand and trying to thread the spline with the other hand. Then I thought... maybe there is a trick, try the BOC.

                            Comment


                              #15
                              I feel your pain! I just did this procedure and all I can say is to jiggle it until it slides on. If you get tired, like I did, stop, set the unit down and wait a few mins to try again. Jiggling was the key for me... it took a few times, but you can do it!

                              Comment

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