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    Tilt Motor or Electrical issue-gctid386151

    I pulled the boat out last after using for five weeks, didnt have any issues, brought it to the boat yard. yesterday went down to check the water in in it and i said lt me mak sure the tilt motor works! I dont know why but i always do it. Low and behold the motor wasnt going down. I tapped on the motor with a hammer thinking it might hav don the trick but i think i made it worse. I took off the motor from the shaft and it seems locked up when i tried to turn it with pliers. i hooked it up dirctly to a battery and it was stuck but then gotr it to move freely. hooked it back up to the shaft and didnt move, got jammed up.

    i took it off again and oped up the cover to the motor and the metal shields inside were in pieces, probably from me banging it with the hammer. so i figured i gt a pair of alligator clip and by pass the motor and hook it up thst way just to see if the motor would go down. Once i hooked it up it sparked alittle then smoke came from the top of the electrical unit. i took it off fast and burnt the crap out of my finger!!

    I was ablt to put the shaft motor in with out the cover and spin it to make the outdrive do down halfway, did take time but worked. So the shaft is not stripped or broke! Also when i switch the motor to down or up i hear clicking so it is getting power. i def have to buy a new motor, which i can buy on ebay but do you think there is more damage to this?

    thanks

    joe

    #2
    Make sure that you NEVER operate this electric motor without the relay box connected. There is a limit micro switch that disrupts the Negative when the vice rod is fully retracted. If the motor negative is not disrupted, you will ruin the cast iron portion of the clutch unit. $$$$$$$$$

    IOW, DO NOT operate this motor unless fully connected to the relay control box so that the Micro Switch is in the loop!

    The p/n 850834 two wire motors are available via Sierra and/or Arco in the $150 range.





    DO NOT confuse this motor with the Power Trim pump motors.
    Rick E. Gresham, Oregon
    2850 Bounty Sedan Flybridge model
    Twin 280 HP 5.7's w/ Closed Cooling
    Volvo Penta DuoProp Drives
    Kohler 4 CZ Gen Set

    Comment


      #3
      Hey Rick . I'm not quite sure I understand your response. I know I did not cut any wires. I though by taken off the motor completely and hooking.up.the wires to the wires from the black plastic unit thatvit would bypass the motor and should at least spin. Was this theory right or wrong?

      I do know the shaft for the tilt is spinning freely .. I know for sure I need the new motor. I'm going.to buy that first and see what happens next. I might have burnt out the top unit since it smoked alittle. I was able to spin the she shaft and the drive did go down ver very slowly..

      Comment


        #4
        Ah, my bad! I can see where you got that.

        I just did an edit and changed the word "cut" to "disrupts" and "disrupted". Go back and re-read my previous post.

        Here's what happens if you directly connect the motor and run it w/o the micro switch:

        Extending the vice rod (drive being tilted up) poses no issues.

        When it reaches full extension, the clutch simply slips because of the up-lift force on the cast iron clutch component.

        This force pulls the two clutch components apart, and it slips.

        Retracting the vice rod (drive being fully lowered) brings the vice rod up against a mechanical stop. The stop is the killer!

        The down-ward force against the cast iron clutch component pulls the two clutch components closer together, causing it to clutch with even more force than designed for.

        When this occurs, the clutch will not slip. Instead, the internal cast iron threads shear off.

        There is a tremendous amount of gear reduction and force against the vice rod and clutch unit.

        .
        Rick E. Gresham, Oregon
        2850 Bounty Sedan Flybridge model
        Twin 280 HP 5.7's w/ Closed Cooling
        Volvo Penta DuoProp Drives
        Kohler 4 CZ Gen Set

        Comment


          #5
          ok im still confused!!!!:surr.. What do you suggest i do? Well my first thing im going to do is buy the motor , hook itt up and see it that does the trick. hopefully i didnt burn anything out while hooking upo the clips trying tp bypass it.

          if the new motor is installed and still doesn't work, whats my next attack. im thinking taking off the top of the black unit and possibly changing the relays, would this be something to do? How do i check to see if they are good or bad? like i said before i do hear a clicking noise when i try to raise the unit down or up.

          so far that is my process, im hoping its just the motor was shot before i banged it with the hammer!!! let me do this first and i will get back to you with he results. im hoping its not electrical since it was smoking for about five seconds.

          thanks

          Comment


            #6
            jmess69 wrote:
            ok im still confused!!!!:surr.. What do you suggest i do? Well my first thing im going to do is buy the motor , hook itt up and see it that does the trick. hopefully i didnt burn anything out while hooking upo the clips trying tp bypass it.

            if the new motor is installed and still doesn't work, whats my next attack. im thinking taking off the top of the black unit and possibly changing the relays, would this be something to do? How do i check to see if they are good or bad? like i said before i do hear a clicking noise when i try to raise the unit down or up.

            so far that is my process, im hoping its just the motor was shot before i banged it with the hammer!!! let me do this first and i will get back to you with he results. im hoping its not electrical since it was smoking for about five seconds.

            thanks
            Yes, first buy the new motor and install it.

            These OEM relays lay inside of the box with the open side up, and are susceptible to water intrusion.

            Replacing them is not a bad idea.

            All they are is a 30-40 amp five pin relay.

            http://"http://www.google.com/search... all day long.

            As long as the connecting blades are flat, you can't go wrong.



            The kicker is the size. The fat ones will not fit within the black box.

            You can find the metal encased relays, or the plastic encased relays with the thinner shells.

            The micro switch is susceptible to the cover being too tight. Loosen the two long attaching screws.

            The cover/box does not need to be tight. It can be free to turn a little bit.

            Here's something that I did not mention.... but you must be careful.

            If you extend the vice rod to 1/2 travel (or so), you can operate the motor by connecting Pos/Neg to it.

            Just give it short bursts of power, and stay clear of the Fully Retracted position.

            When fully retracted, the vice rod raises up and activates the micro switch just prior to topping out.

            If the Micro Switch is out of the loop, and if you were to fully retract the vice rod as to reach the stop....., this is when you can shear off the threads of the cast iron clutch component.

            .
            Rick E. Gresham, Oregon
            2850 Bounty Sedan Flybridge model
            Twin 280 HP 5.7's w/ Closed Cooling
            Volvo Penta DuoProp Drives
            Kohler 4 CZ Gen Set

            Comment


              #7
              Here's something that I did not mention.... but you must be careful.

              If you extend the vice rod to 1/2 travel (or so), you can operate the motor by connecting Pos/Neg to it.

              Just give it short bursts of power, and stay clear of the Fully Retracted position.

              When fully retracted, the vice rod raises up and activates the micro switch just prior to topping out.

              If the Micro Switch is out of the loop, and if you were to fully retract the vice rod as to reach the stop....., this is when you can shear off the threads of the cast iron clutch component.

              i understand everything before the above paragraph after that i don't understand. I would have to be shown visually to understand. I called my volvo dealer and they have all the relays. How many relays are there in the box. Im going to change them when i change the motor. is it possible the hole unit was burnt out due to the smoking?

              The realy you showed me is that the exact relay i need?

              Comment


                #8
                jmess69 wrote:
                • 1 wrote:
                • Here's something that I did not mention.... but you must be careful.

                  If you extend the vice rod to 1/2 travel (or so), you can operate the motor by connecting Pos/Neg to it.

                  Just give it short bursts of power, and stay clear of the Fully Retracted position.
                • When fully retracted, the vice rod raises up and activates the micro switch just prior to topping out.

                  If the Micro Switch is out of the loop, and if you were to fully retract the vice rod as to reach the stop....., this is when you can shear off the threads of the cast iron clutch component.
                • i understand everything before the above paragraph after that i don't understand. I would have to be shown visually to understand. I called my volvo dealer and they have all the relays. How many relays are there in the box. Im going to change them when i change the motor. is it possible the hole unit was burnt out due to the smoking?
                • The realy you showed me is that the exact relay i need?



                • 1 wrote:
                • This is explaining operating the motor for testing while the micro switch is out of the loop. Be careful!
                • This should explain that while vice rod is no where near the top or bottom of travel, you are safe!

                  If you were to near the fully retracted position, you put the clutch at risk.
                • Two relays and one micro switch.
                • That image shows the five pins only. The relay must have the narrow body or it will not fit into the box.



                Rick E. Gresham, Oregon
                2850 Bounty Sedan Flybridge model
                Twin 280 HP 5.7's w/ Closed Cooling
                Volvo Penta DuoProp Drives
                Kohler 4 CZ Gen Set

                Comment


                  #9
                  hey ric i ordered the motor should b here monday morning, Im going to the boat tomorrow and and going to pull off the top unit and see the relays and microswitch. Maybe i fried them! i guess i should wait to buy the relays and switch until i test the motor first. maybe its possible the relays are still working.:right. Im betting they are shot.

                  i was thinking of going out this weekend, my brain is always thinking of something. im assuming this should work. im going to cut the motor shaft with an angle grinder and attach it to a cordless power drill. Now by spinning the shaft would this be enough to make the motor go up and down? I was able to lower the drive almost halfway by just spinning the shaft by hand.

                  Comment


                    #10
                    ok here's my follow up until tomorrow morning, i received the new motor yesterday, going tomorrow to install it. I went to the boat on friday took off the unit and say one of the wires was fried. Ok so i was thining its not so bad because it was a wire with two male connector connecting one resistor and a wire coming off that to a connector with for wires in it. Those wire are coming from micro switch, the other relay and positive and negative from the block and and fuse panel. The micro switch seems to be good i think, its not burnt or anything. this switch just pulled right off the top. it wasn't really connected to anything just the wires from the relays. is this right?

                    now im having problems with the connector. i cant seem to put all the wires in since the connector is really made for single strand wire not braided. its a bitch to wiggle in. i might just be able to pull it off.

                    two questions, four wires go into this connector, if i cant get the in. Can i just pigtail them together and cap them off until i get the proper connector from Wago, they make connector where you lift up the lever and put the wire in and push down and its that simple.

                    my other question is i bought a motor from ebay and the wires are not red or black, there are blue and green. Which one goes to what? if i hook it up wrong will i damage it. i think by now i did enough damage!!

                    please respond before the morning, please. im going to tomorrow to fix it. i will kjeep you posted on the progress.

                    Also btw i did cut the old shaft off the motor and hooked it up to a cordless drill and walla the drive was going up and down with no problem.

                    Comment


                      #11
                      jmess69 wrote:
                      .

                      Also btw i did cut the old shaft off the motor and hooked it up to a cordless drill and walla the drive was going up and down with no problem.
                      Be careful. You can damage the clutch component with a drill motor just as easily as you can with a motor wired directly.

                      Here is a wiring schematic for the two wire electric motor.


                      Rick E. Gresham, Oregon
                      2850 Bounty Sedan Flybridge model
                      Twin 280 HP 5.7's w/ Closed Cooling
                      Volvo Penta DuoProp Drives
                      Kohler 4 CZ Gen Set

                      Comment


                        #12
                        i installed the new motor and new connector, wires going to the new relays. And i still wasnt working!!!! Called up the volvo dealer and he said since the micro switch was getting power that that probably wasnt the issue. He told me to check the fuse. I located the 20 amp fuse which was encased in a twist lock type connection. the FUSE WAS BLOWN!!!!

                        i didnt install it yet but if that was the problem initially im going to be pretty mad!! Two fuses for $3.49. This lesson cost me $140, new motor and two new relays that probably weren't broke until i banged on the motor and busted it. Should have, could have went through my head all day today!!!!

                        ok folks heres the lesson. and having my boat for 8 years and doing all the mechanic work myself i should no better!! always check the fuses first before changing parts, process of elimination theories before buying any parts. ops:drama:

                        thanks

                        Comment


                          #13
                          Ok in stalled the fuse. He gave ne 25 amp instead of 20. It didn't do anything. It was clicking and the only thing happened was i blew two fuses. What is going in? Everything looks good. Can it be the helm switch? I'm out of options. Also i noticed when i put the second fuse in a little peice of metal came out of the fuse connection holder.

                          It has to be.snug in there? I'm stuck on.this one?

                          Comment


                            #14
                            Last comment first:

                            The helm switch receives power separately from the lift unit relay unit/box. This requires the key to be ON!

                            No power at the helm switch..... no relay operation at the relay box!

                            jmess69 wrote:
                            Called up the volvo dealer and he said since the micro switch was getting power that that probably wasnt the issue. He told me to check the fuse. I located the 20 amp fuse which was encased in a twist lock type connection. the FUSE WAS BLOWN!!!!
                            Your Volvo guy is not understanding the system.

                            Look at the two wire motor schematic that I posted for you.

                            Look at the Black 2.5 circuit leading to the Micro Switch (end position switch).

                            This is a Negative connection...... not a Power supply or Power circuit.

                            The End Position Switch completes the Negative when the Vice Rod is being extended, and it takes it out of the loop as it approaches full retraction.

                            [SIZE]1 wrote:
                            [COLOR]"#0000FF" wrote:
                            (I think that I mentioned earlier that if the Micro Switch is not in the loop to disrupt the Negative, you may damage the cast iron clutch component.... yada yada yada, and so on!)[/COLOR] [/SIZE]

                            The Micro Switch also supplies the Negative for the Amber helm switch light.

                            IOW, NO power feeds the micro switch.

                            I'd suggest to go back to the schematic, and trace out all circuits and all relay pin connections.

                            .
                            Rick E. Gresham, Oregon
                            2850 Bounty Sedan Flybridge model
                            Twin 280 HP 5.7's w/ Closed Cooling
                            Volvo Penta DuoProp Drives
                            Kohler 4 CZ Gen Set

                            Comment


                              #15
                              hey Rick, Im going to the boat now. Does it matter where which holes the four wires go into the connector? Im really trying to understand the schematic. i Know i hooked up the black wire on the left side of the switch and the yellow on the right side. I took each wire off th relay one by one! I dont have anymore fuses now. So i guess i cant check anything without the fuse in there. I would love to talk to you onn the phone when im there so i can tell you exactly where the wires are going and how its hooked up. Maybe i will take a a picture of it.

                              Everything seems to be hooked up correctly, what do you think can be the culprit? I dont see any other fuses, just the 20 amp one. so then the switch is fine?

                              Comment

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