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    Amsoil vs. Rotella-gctid665677

    What do you guys think. I have hino 175. What should a guy use. I am due for a oil change. Thanks for the input.

    #2
    Amsoil cost more, no other difference. Clean oil is good.... old oil is bad
    www.boatyardgm.com
    www.pacificyachtimports.net
    2002 Carver Voyager 57
    "Making Waves"
    3988 250 Hinos
    "The Dark Side"
    Alameda, California

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      #3
      Chevron DELO. My favorite. I add ZDDPlus also to restore additive levels that have been removed from diesel oils to preserve catalytic converters in over the road applications. Boat=no cat converter so add it back in.

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        #4
        I would think that using those expensive oils on an old diesel boat is a waste of money and false sense of security. The whole point of them is higher mileage between oil changes. I think most people here would agree that in a boat you should change the oil annually before winterizing, due to moisture in the environment. And with the amount of hours most people put on their boats, just not worth it.

        Hopefully you are not just planning to change the oil every 5 years and 500 hrs?
        Esteban
        Detroit, MI
        Former Bayliners 3218, 2859, 2252, 1952

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          #5
          Thanks guys. I have been changing my oil every 100 hrs. I have two friends up here in minnesota one runs amsoil. I asked him why. He said Earl the guru said that he should. Told him not to run Rotella. I run Rotella in several pieces of equipment and like it.

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            #6
            A cut and paste from an older post about oil additives and zincs.

            FWIW - we use Rotella in a 15-40 weight as we get great results and have no appreciable oil loss between changes.

            IMHO - Use any good named oil of your choice that makes you feel good and that will be fine..

            "Smitty, you always give great advice and I don't mean to be argumentative"

            Well thank you for that compliment ÔÇô it is likely a good time to point out that our only goal has been to provide accurate help for fellow boaters but at certain times our posts have been inaccurate and we hopefully have responded with corrections and updates to those ASAP.

            "..but if older motor oils contained significantly more zinc and if zinc has been proven to be beneficial to cam wear, why wouldn't one want to continue using same type of oils simply from a preventative maintenance standpoint? If you have information about additives used in newer oils and their lubricating properties, I'd like to see that. I am an engineer and the more documentation I have of something, the better I feel."

            OK - so what this is really about is 'additive packages' within an evolving engineered motor oil lubricant. And it also applies to additives that 'could' be added to coolants, fuel, and transmission fluids with the same type of cautions to be considered.

            I believe Mike above (Wiskeywizard) has posted a good readers digest version on a good answer but since I have some time before work I will expand on that just a bit more here.

            Agreeing is better then disagreeing so let's try and find some common ground with this subject before we get into the more subjective and political areas.

            Here are some thoughts on what we can all agree on:

            ÔÇó We are not speaking about Zinc' per se but more about a package of additives

            ÔÇó The issues involving these anti scuff additives began in the late 80's due to catalytic sys.

            ÔÇó Metallurgy itself has evolved greatly each year over the past 30 years

            ÔÇó Lubricant 'systems' have evolved tremendously over the past 30 years

            ÔÇó Break-in periods for engines have always been a 'sensitive' period for the surfaces

            ÔÇó Newer engine designs lessen break-in issues and compliment the new metallurgies

            ÔÇó Designs, lube systems, and metallurgy combined form a new set of real life wear patterns I break in as well as use

            ÔÇó I have used and still use break in lubes (zinc and phosphates if you like) on flat tappet break in periods on some older engines with newer parts (most recently LS6 chevy)

            ÔÇó We select a very good oil (lube system) for all of our engines based upon their specific requirements and use

            And now perhaps a few semi-controversial thoughts:

            ÔÇó Car manufactures do not want their engines to fail

            ÔÇó Motor oil manufacturers do want the best formulations on the market

            ÔÇó Internal combustion engines do not demand the same oils (as opposed to years ago)

            ÔÇó Oil systems are not nearly all the same (as opposed to years ago)

            ÔÇó Additives used to be somewhat helpful but never do any real harm

            ÔÇó Nowadays you can add things(additives) that actually do harm to an engine (really)

            ÔÇó Do not confuse "more" with "better"

            There are some real barriers to your desired research in trying to detect the 'real story' on the interactive value of these new additives ('Zinc') and their relative affect on new and older power plants. 1st and foremost if you google or bing 'zincs affect on older engines' you will be flooded with articles and information planted by the additive manufacturers telling you what they want to hear ÔÇô many of these are ppc (pay per click) and mechanically positioned as superior to other sites. I believe it is obvious why an additive company will explain the absolute need for their products.

            Since this is your goal - "the more documentation I have of something, the better I feel."

            I would suggest that you invest equal time in reading available information from both sides of the table that being the additive manufacturers as well as the group represented by oil manufacturers, engine manufacturers and independents.

            One way to reach these other groups is to search a few different ways and here are just a few examples:

            ÔÇó Search for - 'myths about zinc and phosphate additives in gas engines"

            ÔÇó "Mobil one and FAQ's"

            ÔÇó "Valvoline and zinc additives"

            ÔÇó "Quaker state and zinc additives"

            ÔÇó "required additives for older gas engines"

            In the end you will have 1,000's of hits which you can use to decide what the best course of action is in your case. But one thing I am sure of is that yo will end up knowing that adding large amounts of additive XXX into an engine with an oil package of YYY is not a good thing unless you are very familiar with what is in X what is in Y and what engine you are trying to 'help'.

            Here are a few randomly chosen links to get you started..

            http://www.steelsoldiers.com/engine-...p-content.html

            http://www.skepdic.com/slick50.html

            Hope this helps"
            Northport NY

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              #7
              Thanks Smitty. Why 15-40 and not straight 30. I am just trying to put this together. We love are boat. We have 526 hours on it. We just got it last July and it is a keeper so it is important to me to do the upgrades and stuff people talk about.

              Comment


                #8
                "Why 15-40 and not straight 30"

                I run multigrade oil on all of the engines I have had both marine and land based - even the FI engines on land for its 'cold' performance and detergent characteristics - unless I was using excessive oil I never went to straight grades unless all out racing applications

                There are still a number of good sites where you can read up on oils although a few of the god ones from the past have converted to 'paid' sponsors such as "Bob is the Oil Guy". Here is one of the many out there....

                https://540ratblog.wordpress.com/201...-test-ranking/

                I ran Hino 175's in our 38 for many seasons and it is a great motor that should sever you well - for what it is worth I had Rotella 15-40 in that as well.

                Please make sure you clean the centrifuges as they are often overlooked by owners.

                Hope this helps
                Northport NY

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                  #9
                  Thanks Smitty. I now feel better about what I am doing. I will continue to use 15-40. And change every 100 hr.

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                    #10
                    Rotella changed yearly. It's that simple.

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                      #11
                      "NeilW" post=665686 wrote:
                      Amsoil cost more, no other difference. Clean oil is good.... old oil is bad
                      + a zillion

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                        #12
                        There has been a lot of good info posted already, about the EPA mandating the removal of zinc, phosphorous, moly, sulfur, and more from "street car oils".

                        This is very real and has caused much damage to flat tappet non-roller type engines. "why does my valve lash keep growing?" Hmmmmmm. As far as I know, racing, marine, and motorcycle oils are still exempt from the standards. The way you can find proper oil, is to look at the API "donut" OR the language on the back of the bottle for "meets or exceeds API SG ratings" which means the oil will have a minimum of 1300ppm zinc and the other vital additives some engines need.

                        SG is an obsolete rating, but many motorcycle manufacturers require this oil or an equivalent to honor warranty issues so it is still out there. I have seen mixed oil analysis's on the Rotella-T, it used to be the go-to but I believe it was also caught up in the BS and a recent OA was very low on zinc and I'm not sure I'd want it in my engine. *If any of the diesel guys on here have had an OA done on the Rotella-T recently, I'd be curious to know the results.*

                        This is an excellent and highly recommended read:

                        http://www.sportrider.com/oils-well-ends-well-part-1

                        http://www.sportrider.com/oils-well-ends-well-part-2

                        Needless to say, you won't catch me buying ANY oil at Walmart anymore. I get case deals from the motorcycle shop and I'm happy.....yet sad....to say it's made a noticeable difference in everything from my tow vehicle to my go karts.

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                          #13
                          " it used to be the go-to but I believe it was also caught up in the BS and a recent OA was very low on zinc and I'm not sure I'd want it in my engine. "

                          Two parts to the thoughts here....

                          1. That is part of the point - high "zinc" (or the actual additive package used) is not the end goal here.

                          2. Neither is higher hp produced by the engine.

                          The goal at hand on a marine diesel 4 stroke engine is to get a long life at a reasonable cost.

                          When we raced we used various other oil combinations to extract the very last but of hp - but life was always affected.

                          Hope this helps
                          Northport NY

                          Comment


                            #14
                            I'm not arguing that, my only concern is the fact that the OA came back with only about 650ppm for fresh oil IIRC, not enough.

                            I know that too much isn't good or is a waste, but too little can be very bad obviously. I don't race my tow vehicle by any means, but that V-10 runs and sounds so much better with the cycle oil in it.

                            It was explained to me that these additives are consumed from the oil by the engine, so when having an OA on changed oil you would want to have 500-600ppm left in it, not start out with that much. A 3000rpm diesel may not be at risk with lower zinc as a 7000rpm gasoline engine, but this is beyond my experience admittedly. I would be cautious as oils are changing. I was a Mobil-1 full synthetic believer, until I started eating up engines from it and discovered people were doing group buys on the Euro spec Mobil-1 and were shipping it over. I did a bunch of research and it really opened my eyes.

                            Comment


                              #15
                              Perhaps read the links above - I did read yours as posted and most of it matches up..

                              I have never seen an engine fail due to any Mobil One oil or any other major brand oil.

                              Fleets of trucks and cars do extensive information gathering to save on their upkeep costs and over the years I have read a bunch of them.

                              Due to that reading I believe and have stated above- "IMHO - Use any good named oil of your choice that makes you feel good and that will be fine."

                              There are plenty of other ways to shorten the life of your engines but this is not near the top of the list IMHO.

                              Hope this helps
                              Northport NY

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