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Don(39)t Believe Everything You Hear-gctid375224

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    Don(39)t Believe Everything You Hear-gctid375224

    I thought I'd repost this from thehulltruth. I am the OP of the thread over there and am feeling a little conflicted. On the one hand I am ecstatic that I don't now believe my boat needs 6k in repairs. On the other, my inner paratrooper is mightily pissed at the idea that a jagoff technician tried to bend me over like I was one of Charlie Sheen's starlets just because I roll around with an oxygen tank these days. At any rate I'm only reposting the start and end of the the thread, but am posting a link to the whole thing. Since I haven't splashed her yet I can't say with certainty if my suspicions are true, but I'm definitely leaning in that direction.

    Original Thread:

    http://www.thehulltruth.com/boating-...r-rebuild.html

    Pertinent Posts:

    Hello everyone, I apologize in advance for the length, and thank in advance any sort of help or guidance.

    Last year I bought my first boat, a *'91 Bayliner Cierra Sunbridge 2651. At time of purchase it had a recently installed (within the past three years) factory remanufactured Mercruiser 5.0 with about fifty hours on it (according to the guy I purchased it from). It certainly looked low-hours, started beautifully, and purred like a kitten.

    In early December i took it in to have it winterized. I live in Eastern Washington and the winters here aren't terribly cold. We'd only had a night or two of near freezing temps, so I figured it would be OK.

    The local marine service shop where I took it is generally well regarded, but I have heard more than a few complaints about customers feeling gouged. The tech told me he would call me in a couple of days when it was done. A month later, after I left numerous phone calls and messages, I was finally able to get him on the phone. He told me that he had been backed up, and that he had only drained the engine oil, but that it didn't look good. There was water in the oil, so he had just stopped, figuring that the block had cracked. I asked him to work up an estimate.

    He finally got back to me a month later with an estimate of $6,000 to replace the engine with a rebuilt, replace the prop, and replace the steering cable. He would also need $3,500 up front to start work.

    I don't have six grand lying around, so I've decided to just go pick up the boat and put it back in storage until I save up the required cash. But the more I think about it, the more I'd like to inspect the thing myself. The repair price is 3/4 of what I paid for the damn thing, and I've seen more than a few car engines with chocolate milk for oil that needed nothing more than an oil change. I'm suspicious that maybe the tech just got overwhelmed with other jobs and a little lazy and thought "To hell with it. I'll just slap a new one in and save myself some work."

    So my question is, what should I be looking for? What should I inspect and how? Will I need to pull the engine? What about the outdrive? How can I check for possible damage? I'd like to gain either significant savings or a lot more peace of mind about shelling out that kind of cash.
    *the *91 was a typo. She's a '90. I use the numpad.

    Some further information:


    Originally Posted by fishingfun View Post

    Your problem has nothing to do with winterising.
    OK, that might make me feel a little better, but the tech said different. Keep in mind that I damn near lived on this boat from June-October of last year, ran it every day, checked the oil regularly, and never had a stitch of trouble out of it. She was a fantastic boat when I pulled her out of the water in October: steady oil pressure, good RPMs, no visible water in the oil. The only things she needed --as far as I knew-- when I took her in were a new prop, a new steering cable, and winterized. What else could have wrecked the engine?
    And the update:

    I thought I might give everyone an update. I picked the boat up two weeks ago and towed it back to my storage area. The first thing that I noticed after going aboard was that the starboard stern line which I had coiled in the fall was still lying in the same spot. Not a big deal except for the fact that half of the coiled line was on the aft deck and half was covering the bilge hatch. The line hadn't been moved.

    I know this because dust had settled around the line over the winter. When I climbed aboard and moved the line (which I had coiled months previous) it left a perfect outline in dust which bisected the seam between the aft deck and the bilge compartment.

    I took pictures.

    I opened the hatch and found no obvious signs of anything wrong. I checked the oil. Not a single sign of water. Just nice brown engine oil. I examined the manifolds and found no rust, cracks or signs of water. I pulled the air cleaner assembly and visually inspected the intake manifolds and found nothing visually wrong. I couldn't turn it over because the battery switch was in the "both" position, as opposed to "off," but -I'm ashamed to admit- that's where I had left it when I took it in to get winterized (I assumed the tech would move it the right position during winterization).

    I examined the outdrive and found no signs of cracking or oil leakage. I examined a twelve pack of Kokanee (good Canadian beer) in glass bottles which I had forgotten on the aft deck. No signs of freezing; all of the bottles were full. There was also a six pack of Sprite aluminum cans in the aft cabin which showed no signs of freezing; no bulges; no breeches.

    In short the Patti-Kim (Horrible name, I know. Don't ask) seemed just as fit as she was when I put her on the trailer in October. All evidence points to the fact that the tech probably never even looked at her. I haven't been able to splash her yet because of other obligations, and the batteries are most certainly dead. But I am having the (not entirely unpleasant) feeling that when I drop her in two weeks she is gonna fire up and be the incredibly fine boat she was all last year. If nothing else I am nearly certain that she does not need a new engine. My biggest worry right now is the inch of rain in the bilge, which is the most water that has ever been in there. And that's not a worry.

    Though the sunuvavbitch at the shop did keep her ignition key, and never provided me with even a matchbook's worth of documentation.

    I guess I posted the follow-up in thanks for all who took the time to offer advice, and as a warning to others. I'm not an overly trusting fellow, but I do tend to assume the best of everyone. In this case I think someone planned, with malice and forethought, to screw me over. The only reason I haven't contacted the owner of the shop is because I haven't splashed her yet and made sure that everything is working. As soon as I do, and assuming all is what I think it is, I'm going to have a pretty big complaint to lodge.

    At any rate I cannot thank the members of this board enough for their input.

    I'll see you on the water.

    #2
    Unfortunately there are people out there (many mechanics) that rip people off and dont lose one second of sleep over it.

    My question is was is ultimately winterized or was it juat ledt to its self?
    1989 Avanti 3450 Sunbridge
    twin 454's
    MV Mar-Y-Sol
    1979 Bayliner Conquest 3150 hardtop ocean express.
    Twin chevy 350's inboard
    Ben- Jamin
    spokane Washington

    Comment


      #3
      Why don't you start it on muffs and find out before you splash?

      Sure sounds like you looked like fresh meat for the tech.

      As an aside, if you paid for professional winterizing and have boat insurance, often the insurance will pay for a cracked block.

      Keep this in mind if indeed you do find problems.

      Also the person you paid would have liability if it failed.

      Good luck.

      Doug
      Started boating 1955
      Number of boats owned 32
      Bayliners
      2655
      2755
      2850
      3870 presently owned
      Favorite boat. Toss up. 46' Chris Craft, 3870 Bayliner

      Comment


        #4
        These are reasons why I learned about my boat myself and do all my own repairs and maintaintance. Mechanics in general dont give 2 licks about you or your boat, but you do. At least when you do it yourself you save tons of money, learn more about your boat, and have a good feeling that the job was done right the 1st time. I know plenty of people that were taken for a ride be a mechanic, its more common then not.

        As far as insurance covering a cracked block. My state farm agency said they do not cover damage caused by winterization such as cracked blocks. Others may be different, thats just state farms thing.

        Comment


          #5
          biohazard wrote:
          These are reasons why I learned about my boat myself and do all my own repairs and maintaintance. Mechanics in general dont give 2 licks about you or your boat, but you do. At least when you do it yourself you save tons of money, learn more about your boat, and have a good feeling that the job was done right the 1st time.
          +1

          Comment


            #6
            Well, I wasn't going to read anything from THT forum, but I caved in and read the thread.

            Please DO NOT listen to fireman199259 regarding sucking antifreeze up through the out drive in that theHullTruth forum thread!

            That guys is trying to lead people to cracked engine blocks 101 status, and in a heart beat. :thumb

            Questions: (although it looks like you are out of the woods on this)

            Did you receive a quote for, and did you have an arrangement for this shop to winterize your engine?

            Did they obligate themselves to do so, and did you leave the boat with the understanding that this was to be done?

            Member t500hps nails it. Do this before you assume that there is any freeze damage.

            In post #24, I think that you answered your own question.

            Now, if all is good and OK...., go boating and have fun!

            Make that tow up I-5 and save that other trip for when you have more experience.

            .
            Rick E. Gresham, Oregon
            2850 Bounty Sedan Flybridge model
            Twin 280 HP 5.7's w/ Closed Cooling
            Volvo Penta DuoProp Drives
            Kohler 4 CZ Gen Set

            Comment


              #7
              Mechanic or whoever you talked to on the phone could of mixed up customers and was talking about another boat when you called. Do you have any written estimates with your boats name, HIN, or reg #? If they did give you a written repair statement and it is not true, than that's consumer fraud and is a crime in most states.

              Comment


                #8
                My question is was is ultimately winterized or was it juat ledt to its self?
                It was never winterized.

                Questions: (although it looks like you are out of the woods on this) Did you receive a quote for, and did you have an arrangement for this shop to winterize your engine? Did they obligate themselves to do so, and did you leave the boat with the understanding that this was to be done?
                Mechanic or whoever you talked to on the phone could of mixed up customers and was talking about another boat when you called. Do you have any written estimates with your boats name, HIN, or reg #?
                I was shown a written estimate for the winterization when I dropped off the key, although I didn't receive a copy. All further communication was by phone. The tech did obligate himself to winterize it, though admitted he hadn't because when he drained the oil it was full of water. I don't believe it was a mix up since the tech recognized me by sight when I came to retrieve the boat, told me there was no paperwork since he hadn't performed any work, and then pulled my boat out without me having to tell him which one it was.

                Comment


                  #9
                  biohazard wrote:
                  As far as insurance covering a cracked block. My state farm agency said they do not cover damage caused by winterization such as cracked blocks. Others may be different, thats just state farms thing.
                  Could well be the difference between State Farm's "BOAT" policy, which is a good one, and a "YACHT" policy. I used to have State Farm, kept it with the pontoon boat, but then got a quote from BoatUS on the pontoon, it was a bit less! I don't really need a yacht policy for it, but I do for the 2858, and you need one for your 3055. JMO...
                  Jeff & Tara
                  (And Ginger too)
                  Lake Havasu City, AZ

                  2000 Bayliner 3388
                  "GetAway"
                  Cummins 4bta 250s

                  In memory of Shadow, the best boat dog ever. Rest in peace, girl. July 2, 2010

                  Comment


                    #10
                    jeffw wrote:
                    Could well be the difference between State Farm's "BOAT" policy, which is a good one, and a "YACHT" policy. I used to have State Farm, kept it with the pontoon boat, but then got a quote from BoatUS on the pontoon, it was a bit less! I don't really need a yacht policy for it, but I do for the 2858, and you need one for your 3055. JMO...
                    Your probably right, thats ok nothing a little epoxy cant fix.

                    Comment


                      #11
                      Just looked, my Boat US yacht policy covers freezing. That was a free add-on with their "premier" package which I get from USPS participation and classes. Otherwise you can buy it.

                      Comment


                        #12
                        Maybe I misread something somewhere, but in your original post, your quoted section states that your mechanic said he drained the engine oil, saw water in it, then left it and never touched your boat again. But in your newer post you give an update after picking the boat back up, and you basically said the boat looked like it had never been touched. Furthermore, you said you checked the engine oil yourself and found, well.... oil. Either I'm misreading something, the mechanic never drained the supposedly contaminated oil fully or at all, it was refilled again (but you said he stopped all work, and why would he anyway), or, he's trying to pull the bayliner monkey fur over your eyes.

                        As far as trusting a mechanic, or a professional of of any trade, there are good ones and bad ones in all respects. But as others have mentioned, there are many reasons why I have chosen to do as much of my own repair and maintenance work myself. Getting to know my boat better, saving money, and having the motivation to do things right the first time (because if I make a mistake, it's me that experiences the consequences later on). I tend to agree that at the end of the day when a "pro" clocks out at the end of the day, they won't care as much if a mistake of theirs leaves you stranded at sea or not. Their just showing up for their 8 hour shift. That being said, I do know of some excellent mechanics, and we certainly have some on this very forum.

                        If you are the least bit concerned and hesitant to fire the engine up yourself, I would get a second opinion and have another mechanic take a look at it (hard to find another one if you don't trust any of them). If you don't want to bring the boat somewhere, check to see if you have a mobile mechanic in your area.

                        Comment


                          #13
                          You aren't missing anything. I believe the mechanic didn't do anything and just straight lied to me. He never drained the oil, never even opened the hatch, probably never even stepped a foot aboard. I'm inclined to do my own maintenance, but I have emphysema which can make even small tasks difficult. That said, I think I'll be doing a lot of my own work from here on out.

                          Comment


                            #14
                            I agree with Doug "dmcb" I would check all your fluid levels make sure they are satisfactory. Get a good charge on your batteries. Hook up the muffs turn water on and fire her up. Then carfully watch your temperature gauge and inside your bilge for leaks and funny noises until your motor gets up to temperature. If there are cracks or leaks you should notice these before or once it gets to temp. If the temp starts running up shut her down and have it loooked at by another tech. Once at temp run it for a bit watching all the way. You have nothing to lose since it was not winterized and you could save a few thousand.

                            Comment


                              #15
                              2850Bounty wrote:
                              [COLOR]#ff0000 wrote:
                              Please DO NOT listen to fireman199259 regarding sucking antifreeze up through the out drive in that theHullTruth forum thread! [/COLOR]


                              That guys is trying to lead people to cracked engine blocks 101 status, and in a heart beat. :thumb .
                              I would assume it would depend on the engine and out drive as to the different procedures. What is generally considered the "proper" way? Or is this one of those "read your manual" questions? (assuming you acutally have a manual and it describes how)
                              Boatless at this time

                              A veteran is someone who, at one point in their life, wrote a blank check made payable to "The United States of America," for an amount of "up to and including their life."

                              Comment

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