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Lots of oil in bellows.-gctid340328

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    Lots of oil in bellows.-gctid340328

    I removed the AFT bellows clamp in order to lub the U-joints. When I broke the seal on the bottom of the bellows I got 3 cups of tan colored oil coming out. What kind of exciting repair do I get to do now?

    Volvo Penta 270.

    Attached files [img]/media/kunena/attachments/vb/642874=23145-Oil in Bellows.jpg[/img]

    #2
    well, you have two problems.

    1. water got into your bellows

    2. oil got out of your outdrive

    i had the exact same situation with my vp225e last summer. opened up the bellows and tan oil poured out. most likely the bellows have a rip or tear and allowed water to get in which got through the oil seal on your outdrive (it's meant to keep oil in, not water out) and mixed with the oil in your outdrive creating too much pressure and ruining your upper seal.

    i replaced the bellows and upper oil seal and i was in business. the marina wanted almost 1500, but i did it by myself for about 100 (50 for seals/bellows and another 50 in creating a pressure tester using harbor freight parts). i'd also flush some cheap new oil through the outdrive to make sure you get out all that nasty stuff.

    definitely pressure test it after you drain all the oil out to find the leak! probably upper, but could be the lower prop seal as well.

    good luck.

    Comment


      #3
      As far as I can see the U joints look ok. I can see a small amount of rust in two places (see pictures). I'm not sure how a tear got in the bellows because I tried to be careful putting it all back together after I worked on it. Is there any other condition that can cause this?

      Thank you.

      Attached files [img]/media/kunena/attachments/vb/642904=23169-Rust1.jpg[/img] [img]/media/kunena/attachments/vb/642904=23168-Rust2.jpg[/img]

      Comment


        #4
        Time. Rubber degrades over time, and UV rays accelerate that process. You didn't mention it's age, but most replace them about every 3 years or so.

        Comment


          #5
          I replaced the u joints and bellows in June of 2011 (last year). Put 65 hours on the engine then hauled it out in October for the winter.

          Comment


            #6
            Bruce, there may be multiple possibilities:

            Bellows leaking, like mentioned, water then mixing with excess PDS grease, or excess grease from bearing crosses.

            Turns milky, and there it sits.

            As the drive warms and undergoes mild pressure, drive pukes oil into bellows through main drive gear seal.

            Drive cools, mild negative pressure builds, a seal, O-ring or gasket allows water in, problem repeats and grows larger.

            Helmet pin threaded port breached, allow water into bellows area (not common with the single pins).

            Clamping collar botls allowing water into bellows area (somewhat common preceeding the A transmission).

            You'll want to drain all oil and do both pressure and vacuum leak down tests.

            Soapy water may show press leaks.... some have good luck with Shave Cream for vac leaks.
            Rick E. Gresham, Oregon
            2850 Bounty Sedan Flybridge model
            Twin 280 HP 5.7's w/ Closed Cooling
            Volvo Penta DuoProp Drives
            Kohler 4 CZ Gen Set

            Comment


              #7
              Bruce55 wrote:
              I removed the AFT bellows clamp in order to lub the U-joints. When I broke the seal on the bottom of the bellows I got 3 cups of tan colored oil coming out. What kind of exciting repair do I get to do now?

              Volvo Penta 270.
              I do not see why you would stretch the bellows to lube the crosses. VP reccommends service of the crosses every 2 years. I just remove the upper transmission (THANK YOU RICK!) replace teh crosses and the bellows. Pretty cheap to ensure full integrity of the bellows. As always, just my opinion and it works for me.
              Tony, Cape Cod, MA
              Vice Commodore Bourne Yacht Club
              1994 Carver 390 Cockpit Motor Yacht
              454 Merc Cruisers inboards
              "HOLODECK"
              2014 10' hard bottomed Dink powered by 3.3HP Mariner 2 stroke
              www.bourneyachtclub.com

              Comment


                #8
                tonyiiiafl wrote:
                I do not see why you would stretch the bellows to lube the crosses.
                I caught that also.

                Bruce, you should actually be removing the transmission to access the crosses, IMO.

                This gives you a chance to look at several other things as well.
                • oil drain back screen
                • renew 2 O-rings
                • check pds for excess side play
                • lube bearing crosses
                • split ring keeper for expansion




                Bruce, are you using the OEM Euro style band clamps?

                With this style, the worm drive counter-part (otherwise a full "cut") does not penetrate the band.

                (example only)



                The fully "cut" worm slots of a none OEM worm drive band clamp can grab and bunch up the bellows material when tightened.

                Not good for in bellows scenario, IMO.


                Rick E. Gresham, Oregon
                2850 Bounty Sedan Flybridge model
                Twin 280 HP 5.7's w/ Closed Cooling
                Volvo Penta DuoProp Drives
                Kohler 4 CZ Gen Set

                Comment


                  #9
                  If the outdrive is overfilled, it can push oil into the bellows. I used to fill the outdrive and use the dip stick not screwed in. Later, I found I needed to screw down the dip stick. The issue can be compounded if the drive was run hard for long hours and it got hot. Look for mineral stains on the sides of the drive. This would be residue from water boiling off.

                  Also, Some grease breaks down and will look like a liquid. See if the same stuff comes out of the ujoints or gimble bearing when you put in fresh grease.

                  If that's a Volvo 280 drive, be very careful with that water hose connection fitting, (lower part of your first picture) I know some mechanics that replace that fitting most every time when servicing the outdrive. If it fails, you'll burn up your motor.

                  Comment


                    #10
                    I did not know I was suppose to remove the transmission to lube the bearing crosses. I have never done this before.

                    I guess the first thing I need to do is remove the transmission. I've done that once before, like half a year ago.

                    I changed my outdrive oil when I winterized the boat. What else do I need to do since saltwater may have entered the outdrive (almost afraid to ask)?

                    "Oil drain back screen" is that the screen you see on the lower unit when separating the intermediate housing and the lower unit?

                    So this means I will be separating the intermediate housing and the lower unit?

                    "Check PDS for excess side play". Do I still need to do this if I replaced all the bearing and seals 6 months ago?

                    Sounds like I may be in for a fun time again. I would really like to find out how this happend so I can prevent it from happening again. Sucks having the boat in the water for 4 months, getting 65 hours on the engine just to find out you did something wrong and have to do all this work. At least this time I know how to remove the assemblies and put them back together. Hopefully the right way.

                    Maybe I should send the transmission to that Rick guy in Fairview.:-)

                    Bruce in Milton. VP 270 outdrive.

                    Comment


                      #11
                      Craig.......
                      Monterey10 wrote:
                      ............ The issue can be compounded if the drive was run hard for long hours and it got hot.

                      [COLOR]"#0000FF" wrote:
                      If his slinger pump is working and is pushing oil up to the transmission, the oil does a very effecient job at keeping the transmission within a normal temperature range.

                      I don't recall seeing more than one (maaaaaaybe two) over the years that have shown signs of heat..... and that's been due to a sheared off slinger impeller drive pin. [/COLOR]

                      Also, Some grease breaks down and will look like a liquid. See if the same stuff comes out of the ujoints or gimble bearing when you put in fresh grease.

                      [COLOR]"#0000FF" wrote:
                      True... good call! If the PDS bearing had mixed incompatable greases applied, it can turn to a more liquidy substance. [/COLOR]

                      If that's a Volvo 280 drive, be very careful with that water hose connection fitting,

                      [COLOR]"#0000FF" wrote:
                      Bruce, take heed of what Craig is saying here, and replace this more often if in salt water.

                      Pull the trans for this, and kill two birds...... much easier this way! [/COLOR]
                      Bruce.......
                      Bruce55 wrote:


                      I changed my outdrive oil when I winterized the boat. What else do I need to do since saltwater may have entered the outdrive (almost afraid to ask)?

                      [COLOR]"#0000FF" wrote:
                      If milky, you'd best drain it.... and allow it to drain for a day or two if you have time. [/COLOR]

                      "Oil drain back screen" is that the screen you see on the lower unit when separating the intermediate housing and the lower unit?

                      So this means I will be separating the intermediate housing and the lower unit?

                      [COLOR]"#0000FF" wrote:
                      Yes, that is the screen, but you can reach down into the Intermediate housing "oil drain back port" with a magnetic stick tool.

                      This puts the magnet into the screen.

                      Push it to bottom...... wiggle it........, and see what you bring up. [/COLOR]

                      "Check PDS for excess side play". Do I still need to do this if I replaced all the bearing and seals 6 months ago?

                      [COLOR]"#0000FF" wrote:
                      No... but grease the PDS while you turn the engine over.

                      This will hopefully purge any water from the ball cage. [/COLOR]

                      Sounds like I may be in for a fun time again. I would really like to find out how this happend so I can prevent it from happening again. Sucks having the boat in the water for 4 months, getting 65 hours on the engine just to find out you did something wrong and have to do all this work. At least this time I know how to remove the assemblies and put them back together. Hopefully the right way.

                      [COLOR]"#0000FF" wrote:
                      Bruce.... be sure to do the Press/Vac leak down test before you pull it all apart.

                      Once apart, you'll not know for sure which area had breached. [/COLOR]

                      Maybe I should send the transmission to that Rick guy in Fairview.:-)

                      [COLOR]"#0000FF" wrote:
                      By all means.... be very glad to assess it at N/C. [/COLOR]

                      Bruce in Milton. VP 270 outdrive.
                      Rick E. Gresham, Oregon
                      2850 Bounty Sedan Flybridge model
                      Twin 280 HP 5.7's w/ Closed Cooling
                      Volvo Penta DuoProp Drives
                      Kohler 4 CZ Gen Set

                      Comment


                        #12
                        While everything is apart again, I would also be replacing the "water neck." It is visible in your first photo, and the bottom of the bellows (peeled open) is almost touching it. The neck looks to be a bit corroded, but the worst part of it would be the corrosion inside particularly where it connects to the rubber hose. Cheap insurance to replace the neck (and gasket).

                        Comment


                          #13
                          Bruce, was your outdrive oil similar in appearance to what came out of the bellows?

                          How does the drive oil look now?

                          If it's ok, it's probably just the grease has liquified from combining two different types, or maybe you had a loose clamp and got a little water into the bellows.

                          If the drive oil looks like that, you have bigger problems.

                          Comment


                            #14
                            rkcarguy wrote:
                            Bruce, was your outdrive oil similar in appearance to what came out of the bellows?
                            Great point!

                            If I'm following Ryan, if your drive oil is of the same color and viscosity as what's in the bellows, then that is likely your source.
                            Rick E. Gresham, Oregon
                            2850 Bounty Sedan Flybridge model
                            Twin 280 HP 5.7's w/ Closed Cooling
                            Volvo Penta DuoProp Drives
                            Kohler 4 CZ Gen Set

                            Comment


                              #15
                              Thank you everyone for your help. I'm going to look over what you all said and come up with a plan on what I'm going to do. Just put a tent around the back of the boat this evening (in the rain).

                              "If that's a Volvo 280 drive, be very careful with that water hose connection fitting, Bruce, take heed of what Craig is saying here, and replace this more often if in salt water.

                              Pull the trans for this, and kill two birds...... much easier this way!"

                              This is a Volvo 270 drive. Do I still need to change this even if it was replaced new half a year ago?

                              Bruce in Milton.

                              Comment

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