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I wanna meet the guy that thought carpet on a boat was good idea...-gctid363856

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    I wanna meet the guy that thought carpet on a boat was good idea...-gctid363856

    Today was just one of those days...

    Decided I could not go through another season of soggy feet so I pulled up the carpet to prep for laying vinyl... and yep... do I need to even really explain the rest??

    I swear, I wanna just slap the person up-da-back-o-da-head who decided to put carpet in a Cuddy style boat. I have a 21' Santiago. It's bad enough that the majority of wear and water issues have happened while it's on land, but this was just ridiculous... but there is good news..

    I'll post pictures later but on the starboard side, the side with the swim step the floor under the carpet was totally rotted. It wasn't obvious (not bounce in the floor) because there is a brace that runs right were you normally stand, and you don't really "stand" in the spot anyway... But essentially on the that side of the engine is a seat with the batteries in it... on that whole side for about 2' x 4' running fore and aft... there was no floor left.

    The good news is that I pulled all the rotted wood and much to my surprise found the pumped-in style floatation foam, most of which was soggy.

    After removing the soggy foam... finding standing water in the bottom, I realized the good news was that the stringers and all structural parts were intact. No water damage. So job well done to Bayliner.

    There are still a couple of small area's to check, nooks and crannies as I'm still getting foam out, but so far it looks good and just needs to dry out, add new foam, put down a piece of wood and coat it, lay it in... glass it up...

    The hardest part is getting that darn foam out. I called a friend who worked at Bayliner... well, he kinda ran the engineering shop.. anyway.. He said the original stuff was a 3-part mix they pumped in there. It does seem to adhere to the hull somewhat, and there really isnt anyway to get any tools in there, to it's just a messy tedious job that's taking way longer than it will take to replace the floor itself.

    I'll post pictures later... thanks for letting me rant... This damage is 100% because of the carpet. Here in the Pacific Northwest while it really doesn't rain all that much, and the boat has a full top, when something outside gets wet, it stays wet... but I guess I'm preaching to the choir.

    -Miles
    Aquatic Muse
    Mount Vernon, WA
    MMSI: 367498870
    '79 Bayliner Santiago w/ Mercruiser 470 power and drive

    #2
    He's hanging out w/ the guy who thought running salt water through cast iron was fine.

    Comment


      #3
      Thanks, I needed a giggle...
      Aquatic Muse
      Mount Vernon, WA
      MMSI: 367498870
      '79 Bayliner Santiago w/ Mercruiser 470 power and drive

      Comment


        #4
        Carpet has no place in an open or semi open boat, I ripped mine out (also caused the deck to rot) and had the deck re-gelcoated in non skid gelcoat. Much easier to keep dry. I'd never NEVER ever buy another boat with carpet over plywood decks. Crappy rot prone construction.
        88 Four Winns 200 Horizon 4.3 OMC
        98 Jeep Grand Cherokee 4.0/Selectrac
        07 Jeep Grand Cherokee 5.7 Hemi/Quadradrive II

        Long Island Sound Region

        Comment


          #5
          As far as getting the foam out is concerned. There is a viable method but it is HIGHLY toxic and somewhat dangerous if proper precautions are not taken. Applying acetone to foam will dissolve (or at least loosen) it and leave the wood intact. Remember, any solvent strong enough to degrade the foam will also degrade paint, so be sure to keep it away from painted surfaces if you do not intend to damage the paint. But a word of caution: USE PROPER PROTECTION AND EVERY SINGLE SAFEGUARD NECESSARY -- AS THE BYPRODUCT IS TOXIC AND SHOULD BE TREATED AS A TOXIC WASTE. THIS MEANS IT SHOULD ALSO BE DISPOSED OF PROPERLY.

          And yes, I completely agree with you. Carpet has no place in a semi-open or open boat. I took it one more step further and took it out of my cabin. There is no carpet in my boat whatsoever and I'm so much happier without it!

          Best of luck on your project!

          Comment


            #6
            I agree the carpet is dumb. I made the same conclusion after my first boat, no more carpet floored boats...ever.

            If you have good access to the foam area, get a small flatblade shovel and an assortment of prybars and start digging it outta there. Once the old floor is removed it's really about a day of work, although a strenuous one.

            Comment


              #7
              You will need to replace the floation, I had for a short time a 17' go fast, I had a fuel leak when the previous owner screwed a seat into the fuel fill hose.

              I ripped up the floor and removed the wet foam floation and replaced it with the white bead foam sheets you can buy at lowes, sealed the compartment and used AB exterior plywood, the plywood was resin sealed on all surfaces prior to installing.

              Yes I could have used the proper foam and injected it, this worked and at a significant savings, the manf. of the boat, like many others used foam that was not designed for a boat.

              I have worked with foam insulation since I was 18 years old as an asbestos worker (pipe insulator), I am 67, I cannot imagine using spray or pour in foam that is not a closed cell product.

              Closed cell pour in foam is not cheap, and you need to know a bit about it before using it, but be sure that that white bead foam cannot become contaminated with fuel, it will not hold up, at least the product I sugested will not carry a load of water to weight the boat down.
              Pat says: DO-IT-RIGHT THE FIRST TIME!

              Bayliner 3870 "ALASKA33)
              Twin 350 GM power
              Located in Seward, AK
              Retired marine surveyor

              Comment


                #8
                I too had to rip out foam when I did my resto on my 88 FW, I used 2 crow bars and paint scrapers. It was a long process but you eventually get there. I used the 2 lb 2 part foam, I poured it and then cut it off flush with the stringers and then installed the new deck. Then had the 'glass shop glass it in non skid gelcoat. Now it's finally getting painted, I could not stand looking at the oxidized red gelcoat for another season! No amount of buffing would bring it back (to the point where it would last more than 2 months)....

                [img]/media/kunena/attachments/vb/667264=25722-ATT00004.jpg[/img]

                [img]/media/kunena/attachments/vb/667264=25723-tank mounting.jpg[/img]

                [img]/media/kunena/attachments/vb/667264=25724-Boat 1a.jpg[/img]

                [img]/media/kunena/attachments/vb/667264=25725-foam in.jpg[/img]

                [img]/media/kunena/attachments/vb/667264=25726-boat2a.jpg[/img]
                88 Four Winns 200 Horizon 4.3 OMC
                98 Jeep Grand Cherokee 4.0/Selectrac
                07 Jeep Grand Cherokee 5.7 Hemi/Quadradrive II

                Long Island Sound Region

                Comment


                  #9
                  My wife hates carpet in our 242. Granted it is normally stays dry unless we spill something or kids run inside from a swim platform. It tends to get dirty fast and I would like to just wipe the floor down instead of scrubbing stains out or soaking up water with paper towels.Is vinyl flooring good choice for cruiser like mine? Also how do you remove old carpet. Mine seem to be glued on solid to the deck with epoxy coat.

                  [img]/media/kunena/attachments/vb/667271=25727-IMG_4014.jpg[/img]

                  [img]/media/kunena/attachments/vb/667271=25728-IMG_1004.jpg[/img]

                  Comment


                    #10
                    Thanks for the support guys. Misery loves company

                    Thanks for the tip on the bead foam as well. It's only 6" deep at the deepest and one compartment is only 3" deep on one side and 2" on the other and 4 foot long. Foam sheets should work.

                    Yep, chisel, knife, shovel etc...

                    But now the FUN part... THANK YOU CANADA!!!!!! NOT !!!!!! Apparently finding 5/8" Ply is going to be the 2nd hardest part of the task. The stuff they have now (from Canada) is actually a little thicker and won't work.

                    I was able to undercut the "skin" so there is about 1" of the original skin that will overlap all the way around the new board. That way the glass guy just needs to come in and lay a sheet exactly on the new board to bring it up flush with the old skin than one thin sheet to overlap the old skin and we're done... ready for the Vinyl flooring.. sheesh...

                    My kingdom for a piece of 5/8" plywood 2' x 4' LOL

                    Miles
                    Aquatic Muse
                    Mount Vernon, WA
                    MMSI: 367498870
                    '79 Bayliner Santiago w/ Mercruiser 470 power and drive

                    Comment


                      #11
                      I'm a little late on this thread but I'll throw my hat in the ring. To remove wet foam out of a boat I fire up the 3500PSI pressure washer with the fan tip on it. Cover all the seats and motor with sheet plastic. Takes about 30 seconds to break it all up. I put a plastic trash bag in my shop vac that I punch some holes in the bottom of it before I install it. A big rock in the bottom of the bag helps hold it down inside the vac. I have the three inch hose so I can vacuum up the foam and water. The big pieces I just throw out. Then hit it again with the pressure washer and clean it down to the fiberglass. Comes out shinny clean in about two minutes. Vacuum out the rest of the foam and water. As you pull the plastic bag out of the shop vac the water will drain out of the holes you put in the bottom. Let it sit on the ground until all the water runs out, then throw it away. You may have to use more then one bag. How much wetter can it get is my thought. Let it air dry and reinstall new foam/floor. Makes it a 10 minute job and no bloody knuckles to clean out the foam.

                      Comment


                        #12
                        DockFive wrote:
                        To remove wet foam out of a boat I fire up the 3500PSI pressure washer with the fan tip on it.
                        That is one of my favorite tools!

                        Boy do I look disgusting after a short time of pressure washing, w/ crud in spots on my body I didn't even know I had, but a REAL pressure washer, not the toys people use, is a very, very handy tool!

                        Comment


                          #13
                          I agree about a good pressure washer being a good tool to have.

                          This particular project is small enough that I'm not sure it's worth the effort to hook it up unless I already owned.

                          For the record... as it were... the Foam wasn't really all that wet, and as soon as I opened up the deck, it took only a day or so to dry out. I still have a little left to skoop, gouge, rip, pry and tear out, but were talking only a small section. I've only put in about 2 hours of gouging in, and probably have an hour left. I did find one lumbar yard that carried 5/8 ply so I have that with some sealer ready to go. I'm basically going to make the repair and clean and prep the area so the glass guy can just come in a lay the glass down.

                          For those thinking of DIY fiberglass, it's actually not that hard. I've done it before and its actually fun. But, in this case, the overall expense just doesn't justify it. Having to buy way more material than I need at consumer pricing, the whole chemical disposal thing, having all the right tools etc etc etc.. ...... it's easier to have someone come in and do it professionally for the same price or a little cheaper than DIY. If you are someone that does a lot of glass work on your own, then by all means DIY is the way to go, but little one-off projects, it just doesn't seem worth it.
                          Aquatic Muse
                          Mount Vernon, WA
                          MMSI: 367498870
                          '79 Bayliner Santiago w/ Mercruiser 470 power and drive

                          Comment


                            #14
                            GrindKore wrote:
                            My wife hates carpet in our 242. Granted it is normally stays dry unless we spill something or kids run inside from a swim platform. It tends to get dirty fast and I would like to just wipe the floor down instead of scrubbing stains out or soaking up water with paper towels.Is vinyl flooring good choice for cruiser like mine? Also how do you remove old carpet. Mine seem to be glued on solid to the deck with epoxy coat.

                            http://baylinerownersclub.org/media/....jpg[/img]

                            http://baylinerownersclub.org/media/....jpg[/img]
                            Used vinyl planking form home depot on my 242 right over the carpet. Looks great installed in about 30 minute with a pair of good scissors. Takes the shape of the hull (forward). Been there 3 seasons and still looks good. Just lay it right over the carpet, no need for adhesive.

                            Comment


                              #15
                              GrindKore wrote:
                              My wife hates carpet in our 242. Granted it is normally stays dry unless we spill something or kids run inside from a swim platform. It tends to get dirty fast and I would like to just wipe the floor down instead of scrubbing stains out or soaking up water with paper towels.

                              Is vinyl flooring good choice for cruiser like mine? Also how do you remove old carpet. Mine seem to be glued on solid to the deck with epoxy coat.
                              Wingshadow wrote:
                              Used vinyl planking form home depot on my 242 right over the carpet. Looks great installed in about 30 minute with a pair of good scissors. Takes the shape of the hull (forward). Been there 3 seasons and still looks good. Just lay it right over the carpet, no need for adhesive.
                              Not sure I would vinyl-over-carpet, but I guess it depends on the carpet and what works for you. If it doesn't normally get soaked, you're probably ok. On smaller boats that are open, the floor pretty much stays wet. Everything from splash from the wake and wind to rain to getting in and out from a swim. So I wouldn't want to trap that moisture under the vinyl and make a bad situation worse. However, if your floor is normally dry, and it works for you... well then it works.

                              As for GrindKore... Pulling up carpet can be a bear. I did it professionally for many years and sometimes it comes right up, and sometimes it just doesn't. Normally if you can grab a corner you can pull it up. If not there is a tool that kind looks like a wide drywall trowl with a long handle on it like a shovel. It's a bit heavy and it's used specifically for pulling up tile and carpet. Just get it underneath an edge and shove, but on a boat be careful not to tear up the floor. Basically just don't force it. Once you get a good portion up, you really should be able to grab it and pull it up.

                              As for getting the gunk off the floor.... in my case it was kinda easy... just messy. I got a wire brush and a cheap ($1.50) pack of 3 different sized plastic putty scrapers. Scrubbed with the wire brush, scraped with a scraper, then collected it up as I went into a bucket. When I was done and went over it with a vacuum and touched up spots I may have missed.

                              I'm going to put the new vinyl down with adhesive that requires a trowl (one of those notched trowls that look like they have teeth going down the blade). That will fill in all the cracks and smooth out nicely. I may run my light-weight orbital sander across the floor as I have a of crazing of the fiberglass surface..

                              As for an update on my project (I really need to get better at remembering to take pictures)..... Every time I would have some time to work on it... more water had gotten in from rain... So the other day I bought a 20 x 40 tarp and wrapped the boat in it. I opened the forward hatch and have the cover unzipped and to round off the airflow I put a big fan in the middle on the floor. Basically sucks air from the cabin/forward hatch and blows it along the floor toward the engine (cover off). After just an hour of the fan on high the floor was significantly dryer than when I started. During the day I'll open up the cover a bit if it's not raining, but this should get things pretty dried out in a few days so I can finish my patch.

                              I also found a fiberglass kit by Bondo at the auto parts store today that comes with everything I need in just the size ( 2' x 4' or 8 sq ft) so I'm going to do the glasswork myself. It's gonna get covered with vinyl anyways so I don't think I can screw it up too badly. I initially was going to have someone else glass the repair area, because I thought I still had to be resin and such in sizes that I would never use up. With this kit, I should have no leftovers.

                              Now if I can just get a slightly warmer (60's) sunny (read no read) day.... I'll be a happy boater.
                              Aquatic Muse
                              Mount Vernon, WA
                              MMSI: 367498870
                              '79 Bayliner Santiago w/ Mercruiser 470 power and drive

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