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Where to buy SBC Marine pistons?-gctid360463

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    Where to buy SBC Marine pistons?-gctid360463

    Where would you boy's (and girl's.. mustn't forget them.. ) suggest I buy the engine parts.. I hope not eBay.. They got me spooked from the last fiasco.

    I really need help here.. I have never bought marine engine innards before.. I Have no idea where to go..

    Do the pistons have to bought at a marine store or can I get them from a different type of store.. Or are they just pistons without the word marine..

    The word marine on anything is scary..



    #2
    It's just an engine- nothing to be scared of. As long as you have the right information, any of he usual suspects (Summit, Jegs, etc) can get you the parts.

    Comment


      #3
      Giddy-Up wrote:
      Where would you boy's (and girl's.. mustn't forget them.. ) suggest I buy the engine parts.. I hope not eBay.. They got me spooked from the last fiasco.

      I really need help here.. I have never bought marine engine innards before.. I Have no idea where to go..

      Do the pistons have to bought at a marine store or can I get them from a different type of store.. Or are they just pistons without the word marine..

      The word marine on anything is scary..
      In post # 15 of http://"http://www.baylinerownersclu...er thread,</b> there are several sentences under the heading Pistons.

      Perhaps reread the first one beginning with; [COLOR]"#0000FF" wrote:
      "For the correct pistons, your .......... "[/COLOR]

      (I posted that information for your benefit, since I don't need the typing exercise. )

      I would not recommend ordering pistons without speaking with your machine shop person.

      If he agrees with a Q/E build, he'll know about the perameters, and can bring you up to speed on them.

      If he is against the Q/E build, and convinces you to go in that direction, he'll still know more about the perameters and can guide you to a selection.

      .
      Rick E. Gresham, Oregon
      2850 Bounty Sedan Flybridge model
      Twin 280 HP 5.7's w/ Closed Cooling
      Volvo Penta DuoProp Drives
      Kohler 4 CZ Gen Set

      Comment


        #4
        2850Bounty wrote:
        In post # 15 of http://"http://www.baylinerownersclu...er thread,</b> there are several sentences under the heading Pistons.

        Perhaps reread the first one beginning with; [COLOR]#0000ff wrote:
        "For the correct pistons, your .......... "[/COLOR]

        I posted that information for your benefit, since I don't need the typing exercise.
        [SIZE]3 wrote:
        [COLOR]#000000 wrote:
        [FONT]Calibri wrote:
        Yes Sir.. I did.. And yes I see what type to get.. But what brand and the like.. I am looking now at summit to find the type you pointed out.[/FONT][/COLOR][/SIZE]

        [SIZE]3 wrote:
        [COLOR]#000000 wrote:
        [FONT]Calibri wrote:
        But there are so many brands and short skirt long skirt and the like.. I am going to pick out what I think is right and post the pics from different makers and[/FONT][/COLOR][/SIZE]

        [COLOR]#000000 wrote:
        [FONT]Calibri wrote:
        [SIZE]3 wrote:
        See what everyone thinks..

        [/SIZE]

        [SIZE]3 wrote:
        I am listening to all and trying.. (I'm beatup, old and slow ) to paying attention so I get this all right the first time..

        And I do appreciate everthing.. I hope I can help someone out some day..[/SIZE]

        [SIZE]3 wrote:
        [/SIZE][/FONT][/COLOR]

        Comment


          #5
          I prefer Keith Black forged pistons.

          Long skirts ONLY.

          Comment


            #6
            Giddy-Up, here's another suggestion:

            Print this out and have it beside you... (or since the calculator is pretty narrow, you could actually split your screen).

            Open up an IE page and go to the Sick's Engine C/R calculator, or one of your choice.

            In fact, it may be a good idea to double check yourself by using two different C/R calculators.

            Here is Sick's calculator again.

            These are example #'s only.

            In the first field, plug in 1 for inches.

            2nd field, plug in 4.030 for your new .030" over-bore.

            3rd field ... plug in 3.480 for the piston stroke dimension.

            4th field ... plug in 4.030 for the head gasket bore.

            5th field ... plug in .025 or so, for compressed gasket thickness (example only)

            6th field ... plug in 64cc for combustion chamber volume. Your heads are mostly 64cc chambers. (verify this) A change in cylinder heads will affect these results.

            7th field ... plug in -18 (again, example only) for the piston negative dish volume. (don't forget the minus sign)

            8th field ... plug in .015 for piston deck clearance (again, example only)

            Now click "calculate" and see what the Static Compression Ratio would be with those numbers.

            With those numbers, I come up with 9.05:1 (that's nine point zero five to one... not 9.5:1 )...........

            You could perhaps go a tad bit higher since this offers the Quench. This is up to you!

            If I decrease the piston dish volume to -16, I come up with 9.23:1

            If I decrease the piston dish volume to -15, I come up with 9.3265:1

            (check with the supplier to see what negative dish volume increments are available... there may not be a -15, for example)

            So you can see how playing with the numbers affects the Static C/R.

            Once you decide, then these numbers (along with GM SBC 5.7L using the standard connecting rod length), will be the numbers that the piston supplier needs to hear.

            With him knowing this, he'll steer you in the right direction for a piston part number.

            Now make your selection between cast, forged $$$$, and/or hypereutectic, and discuss this with your machinist, and order them.

            Take a night job delivering Pizza to pay for this......, and there ya go.

            .
            Rick E. Gresham, Oregon
            2850 Bounty Sedan Flybridge model
            Twin 280 HP 5.7's w/ Closed Cooling
            Volvo Penta DuoProp Drives
            Kohler 4 CZ Gen Set

            Comment


              #7
              [img]/media/kunena/attachments/vb/663553=25372-IMG_1277.jpg[/img]

              [img]/media/kunena/attachments/vb/663553=25373-IMG_1278.jpg[/img]

              [img]/media/kunena/attachments/vb/663553=25374-IMG_1298.jpg[/img]Your pistons should look some thing like this. No fully dished pistons. Hypereutectic pistons are sufficient unless you feel the need to spend extra money.Do not go over 9.4:1 compression( with that you'll have to burn premium)that really is the max compression ratio maybe 9.0 - 9.2:1 would be better unless you have aluminium heads and other modifications or you might have the same problem you just went through.Me I would l let the machine shop chose the piston with your guidance. Dont let them put in full dish, high compression, or cast pistons. make sure they know what compression ratio you need and what heads you intend on using. They will need to know the head chamber sizeDon't use short skirt pistons mine in the picture are 9.85:1 kieth black pistons but I am using aluminum fast burn style heads with 64cc double quench area chambers and other modifications.
              1989 Avanti 3450 Sunbridge
              twin 454's
              MV Mar-Y-Sol
              1979 Bayliner Conquest 3150 hardtop ocean express.
              Twin chevy 350's inboard
              Ben- Jamin
              spokane Washington

              Comment


                #8
                Be carefull taking just any "machineshop advice".

                Many know very little more than replacing like for like and sometimes just want to sell what they have. Production rebuilders might sell you anything that fits. It's good to know what you want before you start ordering stuff. There are books available but they may have too much info unless you want to make a career out of the project. To start use Rick E.'s list for a base. Your engine is more like a truck engine than a high performance car engine. You may be money ahead getting one from Michigan Motors. Overall it's not that tricky but getting all the right pieces put into the right places without any mistakes might be better for an expirenced engine person. Hyperutectic pistons are plenty good enough for a non high rpm high hoursepower engine and should save a substantial amount of cash. Summit has some good packages available and phone advice when you have decided what to buy.

                Good luck with it.
                Carl
                2452

                Comment


                  #9
                  BLCarl wrote:
                  1... Be carefull taking just any "machineshop advice".

                  2... Many know very little more than replacing like for like and sometimes just want to sell what they have. Production rebuilders might sell you anything that fits. It's good to know what you want before you start ordering stuff. There are books available but they may have too much info unless you want to make a career out of the project.

                  3... To start use Rick E.'s list for a base.
                  1... Ditto, and I eluded to this with my lead-in regarding machines shops during http://"http://www.baylinerownersclu...n this before.

                  2... Yes, and more so than not, these guys are much more into SBC Auto Performance, than Marine Cruiser type use.

                  They know very well how to build auto power into these, but many do not have "Hands-On" Marine cruiser type experience.

                  The little Go-Fast boats don't count!!!!

                  We can often use the High Performance Auto builds in these little Go-fast boats.... but not in our larger cruiser boats.

                  3... Thank you, Carl...., but I can't take full credit!

                  Much of this is from my years of SBC work and studying what others have done successfully, and then applying it to my own needs.

                  Giddy-Up, I'd say......, don't let this build scare you. You can do it.

                  Just follow the basic guidelines that I've suggested, perhaps print some of this out and take it to your machine shop person, and have a discussion.

                  He'll tell you that the assembly procedure is no different than if he built one using those full dished pistons.

                  The only difference in your build, and a major difference in terms of performance, will be the piston selection.

                  Every machining procedure and assembly procedure will be the same.

                  You do what you want to.... we'll be here for ya either way.

                  But if you should go back together with the full dished, just beware that this piston style/shape greatly contribes to Detonation potential.

                  Be very conservative with your igntion TA if you do.

                  .
                  Rick E. Gresham, Oregon
                  2850 Bounty Sedan Flybridge model
                  Twin 280 HP 5.7's w/ Closed Cooling
                  Volvo Penta DuoProp Drives
                  Kohler 4 CZ Gen Set

                  Comment


                    #10
                    I stayed away till now because i didn't feel i could add anything that Rick and others have already written.

                    Me i would go to Michigan motors website, look at what they have to offer in the way of a complete motor, buy it drop it in and go boating.

                    That way your good to go for at least 5 years till you need to install new elbows, if it's raw water cooled, and if you boat in saltwater.

                    Just my opinion, and yes i'm a old fart also.

                    Oooops ! Did i just type that ?
                    Be good, be happy, for tomorrow is promised to no man !

                    1994 2452, 5.0l, Alpha gen. 2 drive. Sold ! Sold ! Sold !

                    '86 / 19' Citation cuddy, Merc. 3.0L / 140 hp 86' , stringer drive. Sold ! Sold ! Sold !

                    Manalapan N.J

                    Comment


                      #11
                      Chief Alen wrote:
                      I stayed away till now because i didn't feel i could add anything that Rick and others have already written.

                      Me i would go to Michigan motors website, look at what they have to offer in the way of a complete motor, buy it drop it in and go boating.

                      That way your good to go for at least 5 years till you need to install new elbows, if it's raw water cooled, and if you boat in saltwater.

                      Just my opinion, and yes i'm a old fart also.

                      Oooops ! Did i just type that ?
                      +1

                      Unless you want to dig into the engine building stuff.
                      1989 Avanti 3450 Sunbridge
                      twin 454's
                      MV Mar-Y-Sol
                      1979 Bayliner Conquest 3150 hardtop ocean express.
                      Twin chevy 350's inboard
                      Ben- Jamin
                      spokane Washington

                      Comment


                        #12
                        yachtman wrote:
                        Originally Posted by Chief Alen

                        I stayed away till now because i didn't feel i could add anything that Rick and others have already written.

                        Me i would go to Michigan motors website, look at what they have to offer in the way of a complete motor, buy it drop it in and go boating.

                        That way your good to go for at least 5 years till you need to install new elbows, if it's raw water cooled, and if you boat in saltwater.

                        Just my opinion, and yes i'm a old fart also.

                        Oooops ! Did i just type that ?
                        +1

                        Unless you want to dig into the engine building stuff.
                        FYI and FWIW:

                        MichiganMotors is fully aware of the quench effect benefits for the Marine cruiser SBC. I've spoken with Phil about this several times.

                        But they too are limited to what GM provides in the factory "new" OEM build.

                        Also, MM's standard re-build/re-man will be with the full dished pistons.

                        However, MM is one of the few who are willing to do a quench build on a custom order basis these days.

                        They'll do a 5.7L w/ F/T's and 76cc heads for a Q/E build..........., or they'll do a 5.7L or 6.2L w/ D-dish or LC Q pistons with the smaller chambers for a Q/E build.

                        So if you were to purchase a Q/E build from MM, it's going to be a re-man (Phil says that the cost is very reasonable), or it can be a brand new tear-down and re-assembly Q/E build, if I understood Phil.

                        .
                        Rick E. Gresham, Oregon
                        2850 Bounty Sedan Flybridge model
                        Twin 280 HP 5.7's w/ Closed Cooling
                        Volvo Penta DuoProp Drives
                        Kohler 4 CZ Gen Set

                        Comment


                          #13
                          Ok.. So far I have found out that the block was cracked.. Just to the right of the starter.. Probably why I did not

                          Feel it when I felt/looked before.. Did not find that little gem until I pulled the engine out .

                          Bought another block from the machine shop.. Had it bored 30 over.. Got a new, not sprayed or reground crank.

                          New pistons.. Digital Diamond Profile Hypereutectic Pistons .30 over Dished with valve Reliefs. (Recommended by machine shop. )

                          With Moly Piston Rings +30

                          New Rods.. Machine shop wanted to buy 4340 rods, But having to get another block and head it but me over budget. So after some

                          research on metals , I ended up buying 5140 brushed rods.. Floating type also recommended by machine shop.

                          Also got a new COMP Cams® Xtreme Marine Hydraulic Flat Tappet Camshaft. RPM. range 1000 to 5000..

                          COMP Cams Magnum Double Roller Timing set. New lifters, push rods, high volume oil pump.



                          Found out that one of the heads had major surgery not to long ago.. Machine shop found that it had a crack that was repaired..

                          Bought another head from machine shop and both heads are getting new guides, ss valves.. 1.5 and 1.94



                          I'll let you guys know more later.. I can't wait to get it all together..

                          Comment


                            #14
                            I'm curious as to which of these Digital Diamond Profile style pistons you decided upon!

                            This piston with the correct cylinder head and compressed gasket thickness, offers you a quench..... but the partial dish volume must compliment the combustion chamber volume..... or visa-versa... to obtain the correct C/R.



                            While this piston is not the Devil that the GM full dished piston is, I would once again steer clear of this style piston..... regardless of a machine shop recommendation.



                            BTW, there's no need to any of these to be double valve relief.

                            The unused reliefs are unnecessary carbon and heat holding devices.

                            Edit:

                            I'm not sure if you are just bringing us up to speed, or if you're asking for any further feedback.

                            If just bringing us up to speed..... understood!

                            However, if asking for feedback, again I'll suggest that the first piston shown would be a better choice between the two.

                            This piston for a 5.7L Marine build must be used with the 76cc chamber cylinder heads..... and this is if the dish or valve relief volume is correct.

                            If not, and when used with the 64cc chambers, then your static C/R will be too great.

                            If you do a correct 5.7L SBC Marine quench build using the smaller 64cc chamber heads, your assembled engine block will look similar to this.



                            If you do a corrrect 5.7L SBC Marine quench build using the larger 76cc chamber heads, your assembled engine block will look similar to this one.

                            Note the double valve reliefs (top) -vs- the more favorable single valve reliefs (bottom).





                            If the quench build just seems rediculous to you......, then your assembled engine block may look like this.



                            .
                            Rick E. Gresham, Oregon
                            2850 Bounty Sedan Flybridge model
                            Twin 280 HP 5.7's w/ Closed Cooling
                            Volvo Penta DuoProp Drives
                            Kohler 4 CZ Gen Set

                            Comment


                              #15
                              2850Bounty wrote:
                              I'm curious as to which of these Digital Diamond Profile style pistons you decided upon!

                              This piston with the correct cylinder head and compressed gasket thickness, offers you a quench..... but the partial dish volume must compliment the combustion chamber volume..... or visa-versa... to obtain the correct C/R.



                              While this piston is not the Devil that the GM full dished piston is, I would once again steer clear of this style piston..... regardless of a machine shop recommendation.



                              BTW, there's no need to any of these to be double valve relief.

                              The unused reliefs are unnecessary carbon and heat holding devices.

                              Edit:

                              I'm not sure if you are just bringing us up to speed, or if you're asking for any further feedback.

                              If just bringing us up to speed..... understood!

                              However, if asking for feedback, again I'll suggest that the first piston shown would be a better choice between the two.

                              This piston for a 5.7L Marine build must be used with the 76cc chamber cylinder heads..... and this is if the dish or valve relief volume is correct.

                              If not, and when used with the 64cc chambers, then your static C/R will be too great.

                              .
                              [SIZE]3 wrote:
                              [COLOR]#000000 wrote:
                              [FONT]Calibri wrote:
                              Great.. Then I got the wrong Piston.. Because I ordered the second set.. Ok.. I'll send them back and exchange them.. Thanks for letting me know this.. It may be a hassle now but [/FONT][/COLOR][/SIZE]

                              [SIZE]3 wrote:
                              [COLOR]#000000 wrote:
                              [FONT]Calibri wrote:
                              a much bigger one later on.. [/FONT][/COLOR][/SIZE]

                              [FONT]Calibri wrote:
                              [SIZE]3 wrote:
                              [COLOR]#000000 wrote:
                              [/COLOR][/SIZE][/FONT]

                              [SIZE]3 wrote:
                              [COLOR]#000000 wrote:
                              [FONT]Calibri wrote:
                              Thank you Sir for your guidance [FONT]Calibri wrote:
                              and experience ..[/FONT][/FONT][/COLOR][/SIZE]

                              Comment

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