Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

bilge pump wiring / troubleshooting 2002 W/A outboard-gctid360236

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

    bilge pump wiring / troubleshooting 2002 W/A outboard-gctid360236

    Ok, last fall the manual switch stopped working on my Trophy. The float switch was still working for a while and then it would not cut off at all. I think it is the original factory float switch. I have replaced the pump once and it is ok ( 1100 Rule ).

    I decided to deal with it in the spring and am thinking I would like to:

    1- replace the float switch

    2-re wire the whole operation from the helm to pump / float

    My problem is the way the wires are bundled going to / from the pump to the helm it is hard to determine which wires go where. There are two brown wires leaving the switch. Also two wires at the pump and two at the float switch.

    Does anyone have a simple wiring diagram for the original wiring? I found one but it is for the entire boat and very complicated and small print for my old eyes. Don't want to necessarily change the original cause it worked fine, just restore it to original.

    I guess the switch could have been my problem with the manual part not working, but can't see how that would affect the float. Anyway, since it is a 1995 Model, used in salt water, and a bilge pump is obviously important I would prefer re wiring the whole thing.

    TR NC Coast

    #2
    riven1950 wrote:
    I decided to deal with it in the spring and am thinking I would like to:

    1- replace the float switch

    2- re wire the whole operation from the helm to pump / float

    My problem is the way the wires are bundled going to / from the pump to the helm it is hard to determine which wires go where. There are two brown wires leaving the switch. Also two wires at the pump and two at the float switch.

    Does anyone have a simple wiring diagram for the original wiring? I found one but it is for the entire boat and very complicated and small print for my old eyes. Don't want to necessarily change the original cause it worked fine, just restore it to original.

    3... I guess the switch could have been my problem with the manual part not working, but can't see how that would affect the float. Anyway, since it is a 1995 Model, used in salt water, and a bilge pump is obviously important I would prefer re wiring the whole thing.

    TR NC Coast
    2... do you mean re-wire so that the pump is fed from the helm only???? Or re-wire from the helm to pump/float, as in this is the area that will be all new???

    The source for an Uninterruptible Float Switch power, will NOT be coming from your helm.

    Your helm power is Interruptible.... and you sure ** don't want float switch power to be interruptible!

    3... Does this mean that you have a Manual/OFF/Auto helm switch for the main bilge pump????

    If so... I'd loose that switch. See ** above!

    If you do have a Manual/OFF/Auto helm switch for the main bilge pump.... be prepared for an Arse Chewing by our Cap't Harv.

    .
    Rick E. Gresham, Oregon
    2850 Bounty Sedan Flybridge model
    Twin 280 HP 5.7's w/ Closed Cooling
    Volvo Penta DuoProp Drives
    Kohler 4 CZ Gen Set

    Comment


      #3
      More often than not it is the float switch, you can check by bypassing the float switch to check the pump.
      Pat says: DO-IT-RIGHT THE FIRST TIME!

      Bayliner 3870 "ALASKA33)
      Twin 350 GM power
      Located in Seward, AK
      Retired marine surveyor

      Comment


        #4
        What I am trying to do is replace all of the original factory wiring from the helm to the pump to the float switch. My use of the term re wire was / is confusing.

        The system is as it was from the factory. The helm switch turns on / off the pump ( or should if working ) and does not affect the auto float. You are correct the float is Not affected by the switch, so I may miss the *** chewing. It works ( or should ) works independently of the manual switch. It is a factory set up and I want it to stay that way........... just replace the wiring and float ( and switch if need be ).

        Is there an easy way to test the switch with no power? I have batteries removed to charge and in order to access the wiring better.

        Thanks in advance.......

        Comment


          #5
          It would be best if you had the batteries installed. Several birds with one stone.

          Gives you a chance to check all Pos/Neg cables, and/or look for any direct battery wire connections that shouldn't be there! rod

          But that's another story.

          Otherwise, use a volt ohmmeter at the float switch and raise it up and down.

          You will not only determine if it's working or not...., but you'll see the range at which it closes and opens contacts.

          BTW, you've mentioned twice now; "replace all of the original factory wiring from the helm to the pump to the float switch."

          Your float switch power should not be coming from the helm, IMO.

          There are no Uninterruptible 12 volt power circuits at the helm that I am aware of.

          Maybe I've misunderstood you.

          .
          Rick E. Gresham, Oregon
          2850 Bounty Sedan Flybridge model
          Twin 280 HP 5.7's w/ Closed Cooling
          Volvo Penta DuoProp Drives
          Kohler 4 CZ Gen Set

          Comment


            #6
            Thanks to all...

            Bounty, Are you saying the pump should not be powered from the fuse block in the console?

            I need to check again today but I am thinking there is a fuse / connection in the console for the pump. I know the live well and fish storage locker pumps have fuses there...but that is another story.

            Comment


              #7
              riven1950 wrote:


              Bounty, Are you saying the pump should not be powered from the fuse block in the console?

              I need to check again today but I am thinking there is a fuse / connection in the console for the pump. I know the live well and fish storage locker pumps have fuses there...but that is another story.
              Well, I'm not sure what you are calling a console.... and yes, the Float Switch will be fused regardless.

              Let's assume that the console is part of the helm or an extension of the helm in terms of 12 volt power.

              What happens to your helm or console power when you leave the boat unattended?

              IOW, when you leave the boat, aren't you turning off your MBSS?

              I sure would!

              With the MBSS OFF, there is no helm power.... correct?

              If the float switch receives it's power from the helm, how would it power the bilge pump in a high water scenario?

              You have an MBSS, correct? (main battery selector switch... 1/BOTH/2/OFF)

              On the rear of all MBSS's, there are three main lug type terminals.

              #1 = Start batt.

              #2 = House Load batt bank

              "Common" = the feed from the MBSS to the main engine starter motor terminal... and from there forward to the helm, cabin, etc.

              Since #2 makes a direct connection to our largest and longer lasting batt bank, this is an excellent place to power a float switch.

              I.E., it is "Un-Interruptible" even while the MBSS is OFF.

              The brown lead that runs forward the helm switch (or rearward to the pump... depending on how you look at it) is paralleling this circuit... of which makes this circuit an excellent place to connect an alarm or buzzer that would let anyone within ear-shot know that your pump is running.

              These are just suggestions.... it's your boat.

              BTW, just because B/L installed your bilge pump and float switch, don't assume that it is correctly installed.
              Rick E. Gresham, Oregon
              2850 Bounty Sedan Flybridge model
              Twin 280 HP 5.7's w/ Closed Cooling
              Volvo Penta DuoProp Drives
              Kohler 4 CZ Gen Set

              Comment


                #8
                one of the many problems I see with pilge pump wiring is trying to cut the cost of the butt splices. Many people use standard automotive style crimp butt splices which allows water to make contact with the conductor. Over time the wires corrode inside of the insulation and break where you least suspect a problem and not easy to find since you can't see the break.

                If you decide to rewire, I'd use the butt splices that come with the heat shrink tubing with the heat sensitive adheisive available from manufacturers like Anchor marine or at least put the heat shrink tubing with the heat sensitive adheisive inside over the connection.

                Comment


                  #9
                  Ok,

                  I replaced the float switch today. It is connected directly to the MSS as Bounty suggested. ( was that way originally also)

                  The pump has a GRD wire connected directly to the battery. I think it was originally connected to a GRD wire going back to the helm but I think I changed it when I replaced the pump a couple of years ago.

                  There are two more wires running to the helm where the switch and fuse block is. One for the pump, one for the float. Not sure where they terminate.

                  I will get at least one of the batteries back in tomorrow and then can test it out.

                  Hopefully I can just use marine connectors / liquid electrical tape and eliminate replacing all the wires.

                  will update again, thanks for the advice

                  Comment


                    #10
                    riven1950 wrote:


                    1... I replaced the float switch today. It is connected directly to the MSS as Bounty suggested. ( was that way originally also)

                    2... The pump has a GRD wire connected directly to the battery. I think it was originally connected to a GRD wire going back to the helm but I think I changed it when I replaced the pump a couple of years ago.

                    3.... There are two more wires running to the helm where the switch and fuse block is. One for the pump, one for the float. Not sure where they terminate.
                    1... #2 terminal... not the "common"... correct?

                    2... My pet peeve: Direct battery connections (pos or neg... both bad in my book) other than battery cables! rod

                    Mount yourself a nice clean Negative buss bar somewhere.

                    3... The "one for the float" has me thinking that you DO have the Manual/OFF/Auto helm switch! Or.... someone has attempted to power a float switch from a source that is very likely Interruptible.
                    Rick E. Gresham, Oregon
                    2850 Bounty Sedan Flybridge model
                    Twin 280 HP 5.7's w/ Closed Cooling
                    Volvo Penta DuoProp Drives
                    Kohler 4 CZ Gen Set

                    Comment


                      #11
                      Ok, I've got one battery in and tested out the pump / float. It all seems to work as before although I may still replace part of the wire headed back to the helm from the pump / float to the on / off switch.

                      The float only works with a battery as it is connected to the common on the mss, which is the way it always has been. In my situation I am trying to decide whether to change it or not. The boat is not in a marina, sits behind my house and stays on a lift most of the time. I generally put it in the water for 4-5 days and then put it back on the lift to keep the barnacles from attaching. I have always just shut everything off and left a battery on.

                      2850Bounty in my situation why is it better to power the float off the #2 battery rather than common? Not questioning your advice, just trying to figure out what is best. I know the way it is if someone were to turn the mss to off and water gets in the bilge I am screwed. That's the only reason I can think of except the danger of forgetting to turn something off and with the mss on the battery would drain down (:

                      thanks again for all the advice / assistance.

                      Comment


                        #12
                        riven1950 wrote:
                        Ok, I've got one battery in and tested out the pump / float.

                        1.... It all seems to work as before although I may still replace part of the wire headed back to the helm from the pump / float to the on / off switch.

                        2... The float only works with a battery as it is connected to the common on the mss, which is the way it always has been.

                        3.... In my situation I am trying to decide whether to change it or not.

                        The boat is not in a marina, sits behind my house and stays on a lift most of the time.

                        4.... I generally put it in the water for 4-5 days and then put it back on the lift to keep the barnacles from attaching.

                        5.... I have always just shut everything off and left a battery on.

                        6... 2850Bounty in my situation why is it better to power the float off the #2 battery rather than common? Not questioning your advice, just trying to figure out what is best.

                        7..... I know the way it is if someone were to turn the mss to off and water gets in the bilge I am screwed.

                        8... That's the only reason I can think of except the danger of forgetting to turn something off and with the mss on the battery would drain down
                        If I knew your sense of humor, I'd use full on sarcasm here, but I'll step lightly and gently.

                        1.... Again.... the power to the float switch (assuming that you have a separate float switch) will not come from the helm!

                        Helm power is or should be Interruptible!!! We DO NOT want Interruptible power to a main bilge pump float switch!

                        2... IMO, this is part of where the problem lies!

                        The "Common" terminal is "Interruptible" when the MBSS is turned to the OFF position!

                        Turn your MBSS off, and put a volt meter on the common terminal. What do you read??? You should read ZERO!

                        3.... Questions..... do you want:

                        A. to be able to leave your boat unattended while in the water, and with pump via float switch capability?

                        B. to be able to turn off all 12 vdc power, with exception to float switch power?

                        4.... During those 4-5 days, do you want the protection of bilge pump operation via float switch????

                        Answer... Yes, of course you do!

                        5.... That's one way..... but there is an easier and more Goof Proof method... and perhaps more common way.

                        6... Multiple reasons:

                        A. #2 is your largest bank... or should be. It would be better to run a bilge pump for as long as you possibly can, until someone gets there.... correct????

                        B. a #2 terminal connection leads you to a direct and Uninterruptible path to your largest #2 battery bank... the HLBB. (#1 is your smaller amp hour capacity Start Batt)

                        C. on the other hand, the "Common" is capable of power from either battery bank, but one or the other must be selected!

                        HOWEVER, the MBSS must be ON in order for the "Common" to be "live"! With MBSS ON, all else has the potential of being ON and being an unwanted battery drain.

                        D. most of us prefer to shut down the entire O/B 12 vdc system when leaving the boat unattended.

                        The Float Switch will still have power.... hence the term [SIZE]4 wrote:
                        "Un-Interruptible" source![/SIZE]


                        7..... If you encountered a water leak, Yes..... BINGO!

                        And you've just answered your own question as to why the #2 MBSS terminal is or is not the place to power the float switch..... of which the answer is again, YES.

                        8... BINGO again!

                        On average, we have only two items that have the potential to drain our HLBB when the MBSS has been turned OFF.

                        A. Pre-set radio memory that also requires uninterruptible power (takes weeks and weeks to drain a battery)

                        B. Main Bilge Pump that has been cycling ON/OFF due to a float switch doing it's job.

                        Otherwise, all is good.

                        Here's an example only.

                        Note where the float switch receives power.

                        Note the manual helm switch power and how the two become schematically parallel at the bilge pump.

                        .

                        Attached files http://baylinerownersclub.org/media/....jpg[/img]
                        Rick E. Gresham, Oregon
                        2850 Bounty Sedan Flybridge model
                        Twin 280 HP 5.7's w/ Closed Cooling
                        Volvo Penta DuoProp Drives
                        Kohler 4 CZ Gen Set

                        Comment


                          #13
                          2850bounty......thanks for all the detail. I will finish installing the other battery today ( #2 ). I AM going to CHANGE the float power to #2. By the way I do have a sense of humor ( not so much when my head is in that little access hole trying to connect two wires ). So fire away with whatever.

                          I hope to be done today with tying the wires in place, switching the float from C to 2, heck I even found a loose grd connection on the fishwell macerator pump and it is running again.

                          With a little luck will get through the day without asking more questions..........thanks again for the help!!

                          TR

                          Comment


                            #14
                            OK, you just gave me permission, so next time I'll turn on full sarcasm if the question warrants it..... fair nuff?

                            You'll be glad that you made these changes.

                            And don't hold back questions.... that's what the forum is for!
                            Rick E. Gresham, Oregon
                            2850 Bounty Sedan Flybridge model
                            Twin 280 HP 5.7's w/ Closed Cooling
                            Volvo Penta DuoProp Drives
                            Kohler 4 CZ Gen Set

                            Comment


                              #15
                              2850Bounty wrote:


                              8... BINGO again!

                              On average, we have only two items that have the potential to drain our HLBB when the MBSS has been turned OFF.

                              A. Pre-set radio memory that also requires uninterruptible power (takes weeks and weeks to drain a battery)

                              B. Main Bilge Pump that has been cycling ON/OFF due to a float switch doing it's job.
                              On newer boats add the cabin CO Detector to the list of items that are typically wired to directly and can drain the battery even with the switch off.
                              Jim McNeely
                              New Hope a 2004 Bayliner 305 Sunbridge Express Cruiser
                              Twin 5.7s with Bravo2 drives
                              Brighton, Michigan USA
                              MMSI # 367393410

                              Comment

                              Working...
                              X